What the heck???

[wb4iuy]

Some SSB net running on 3.887, and they're complaining about the interference from AM in the window... yet they run their net in the passband of every AM receiver ever built. The "brotherhood net? Anyone know who these clowns are?

You know, many of us restrain ourselves to a very few frequencies to minimize interference to the rest of the amateur community, but I really don't know why we bother. Maybe we should just start operating AM everywhere it's legal and say to heck with the other modes.

Dave WB4IUY
www.WB4IUY.net

[N0WVA]

Maybe we should just start operating AM everywhere it's legal and say to heck with the other modes.

Dave WB4IUY
www.WB4IUY.net

What a good idea!

Your not saying " to heck with other modes" when you operate on a clear frequency.

And dont think twice about the "SSB sandbaggers". If they dont respond to a "QRL", then they obviously arent using the frequency!

[KC2UFU]

Some SSB net running on 3.887, and they're complaining about the interference from AM in the window... yet they run their net in the passband of every AM receiver ever built. The "brotherhood net? Anyone know who these clowns are?

You know, many of us restrain ourselves to a very few frequencies to minimize interference to the rest of the amateur community, but I really don't know why we bother. Maybe we should just start operating AM everywhere it's legal and say to heck with the other modes.

Dave WB4IUY
www.WB4IUY.net

I know your frustration Dave, I was being harrassed during the AM Rally, but I didnt let it get the best of me.  It's tempting sometimes to"fire back" at them, but I try and remind myself that I am the one operating responsibly.  Besides, if you just listen in for a bit, you'll realize that in a battle of the wits, they are truly unarmed.

[wb4iuy]

Yeah, I didn't hear in AM in the AM window, so I put out a few CQ's and had a couple of nice QSO's with KA1ANX & N4OYT. Heard Tim-tron come in after I signed and had headed off to the family room. All in all, it became a great night on 80m AM!

Dave WB4IUY
www.WB4IUY.net

[Pete, WA2CWA]

You know, many of us restrain ourselves to a very few frequencies to minimize interference to the rest of the amateur community, but I really don't know why we bother. Maybe we should just start operating AM everywhere it's legal and say to heck with the other modes.

Dave WB4IUY
www.WB4IUY.net

Many of us have been operating AM on a wide variety of frequencies for years. The imaginary AM window is what it is; "imaginary" for most other operators. If your VFO has a knob, button, mouse, etc. and likewise for your receiver, turn, push, drag, etc. those things to a clear frequency, since you can and should operate AM anywhere your license class allows you to operate phone.

[W1ATR]

Some SSB net running on 3.887, and they're complaining about the interference from AM in the window... yet they run their net in the passband of every AM receiver ever built. The "brotherhood net? Anyone know who these clowns are?

You know, many of us restrain ourselves to a very few frequencies to minimize interference to the rest of the amateur community, but I really don't know why we bother. Maybe we should just start operating AM everywhere it's legal and say to heck with the other modes.

Dave WB4IUY
www.WB4IUY.net

I know your frustration Dave, I was being harrassed during the AM Rally, but I didnt let it get the best of me.  It's tempting sometimes to"fire back" at them, but I try and remind myself that I am the one operating responsibly.  Besides, if you just listen in for a bit, you'll realize that in a battle of the wits, they are truly unarmed.

SO what your saying is they shouldn't bring as knife to a gunfight. 

[KD0HUX]

You know, many of us restrain ourselves to a very few frequencies to minimize interference to the rest of the amateur community, but I really don't know why we bother. Maybe we should just start operating AM everywhere it's legal and say to heck with the other modes.

Dave WB4IUY
www.WB4IUY.net

Many of us have been operating AM on a wide variety of frequencies for years. The imaginary AM window is what it is; "imaginary" for most other operators. If your VFO has a knob, button, mouse, etc. and likewise for your receiver, turn, push, drag, etc. those things to a clear frequency, since you can and should operate AM anywhere your license class allows you to operate phone.

[W2VW]

If no one was on 3885 AM and the sideband net started up there's no foul.

Use it or lose it.

The only thing worse is those using AM who start up on top of other AM QSOs. Commonplace on 3885 now. Same people, last few times. It's not just band conditions either.

I operate most of the time between 3870 - 3890 because that's where other people using AM break-in happen to listen. I don't have the time for roundtable fireside chat QSOs. My relays are rated for tens of thousands of cycles too.

[K1JJ]

I operate most of the time between 3870 - 3890 because that's where other people using AM break-in happen to listen. I don't have the time for roundtable fireside chat QSOs. My relays are rated for tens of thousands of cycles too.

"I don't have the time for roundtable fireside chat QSOs."   HA!  Classic...


About operating AM too close to other AMers: It pays to always be aware of what's going on around us. Using a separate receiver on split to ocassionally listen to your band neighbors can show if we are causing side splatter to them. IE, if they are yelling and screaming bloody murder, then something might be amiss...   If we hear a problem, we might have the opportunity to narrow down our audio, reduce modulation %, slide the VFO away a little, etc.

Talking on in a monologue-fog, oblivious to others, is just axing for trouble.

T

[W2PFY]

One of the things I found very helpful in receiving is the use of a 31 band equalizer. Often you can limit a squeal of certain hetrodynes by the simple use of a slider. I think I'll put it in the outpoot of me old R390A.

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

You know, many of us restrain ourselves to a very few frequencies to minimize interference to the rest of the amateur community, but I really don't know why we bother. Maybe we should just start operating AM everywhere it's legal

Huh? I thought many of us were already doing this? Every time I've worked you Dave, it's been below 3730. Hard to believe anyone would put up night after night with the the conditions you describe when much of the band sits unused.

'Restraining' yourself to a handful of frequencies is akin to having a large, lush backyard at your home but never using it, confining yourself instead to the tiny front yard that borders the noisy street and is used by all the neighborhood dogs to relieve themselves. Makes no sense.  

Minimize interference to the rest of the amateur community? Sounds like riding in the back of the bus so as not to inconvenience anyone. Do other modes do this for the AM mode? I guess this is another self-imposed requirement like the AM Window "agreement". Why abide by some voluntary restriction that others either aren't aware or, by what you describe above - don't follow? When no one is playing by those rules but you, I'd think it would get old pretty fast. Not to mention painting yourself into a corner the day someone decides to take us up on it.

"You AMers are allowed to work 3870-3890, that's it. Stay there".

I know one particular AM station states to the SSBers regularly that "Us AMers stay within these few frequencies, you guys have the rest of the band to use". Sure wish he'd speak for himself, many of *us* AMers prefer to use any and all frequencies within the limits of our license class. Besides, that stink is hard to get off your shoes.  

There is regular activity as low as 3655, so there's plenty of AM out there already. It's a brave, new world.

[Steve - K4HX]

You were strapping at my location! No slopbucket heard.

Yeah, I didn't hear in AM in the AM window, so I put out a few CQ's and had a couple of nice QSO's with KA1ANX & N4OYT. Heard Tim-tron come in after I signed and had headed off to the family room. All in all, it became a great night on 80m AM!

Dave WB4IUY
www.WB4IUY.net

[Ed/KB1HYS]

I don't have the time for roundtable fireside chat QSOs. My relays are rated for tens of thousands of cycles too.

After asking a certain well known East Coast operator a technical question about How to Deyhellify a Johnson product....

[KB2WIG]

I have value at 3705.......  I'm too PW in the window.


klc

[wb4iuy]

I have value at 3705.......  I'm too PW in the window.


klc

Phil is a pretty tough character, love that icon :-)

[k4kyv]

I tend to operate in the window aka "AM ghetto" outside of prime evening hours. During peak hours when there is so much chaos and confusion, you might find me in the vicinity of 3705, 3720-35, or somewhere below 3700. Otherwise, there is 160m and 40m.

Last night I called CQ on 3885 and KD6VXI came back, followed by John in Seattle, WA (can't think of his call sign).  Then John KX5JT in LA joined in. I finally signed out about 2 AM.  By then a couple of stations in the northeast had joined us.

No slopbucket QRM or pissing 'n moaning. The only problem was that interference that sounds like bursts of white noise.  At times it became strong enough to actually make the west coast guys hard to read.  There definitely are two stations responding to each other, one stronger than the other.  At times the weaker one stayed on for several seconds, instead of the usual half second or so.  They would go away for a while, then return.  Something else I notice is after a substantial silence, I hear a "beep", what sounds like about a 2 kc/s heterodyne or tone that lasts a quarter second or so, then the hash exchange starts back up.  The thing seems to stay right on 3885.  When I first started hearing it a few weeks ago, I thought it was some slopbucketeer playing games. Maybe that's what it is, but it appears more likely to be  some kind of digital exchange.  It doesn't seem to be coming out of Europe, or at least not last night.  I was getting it stronger on my transmit dipole than with the beverage.  European signals nearly always come in stronger (s/n ratio wise) on the beverage.

Some have suggested that it may be OTH radar coming from China.  I believe China is in full daylight at 0600-0800Z, so they would have to be running a hell of a lot of power to put that strong a signal in here with full daylight at their end.

The past few evenings I have been noticing another new one down on 3630, right on the frequency where the ESSB guys hang out.  That one runs continuously,  not-stop all evening, with about the same bandwidth as a  an AM signal or slightly narrower.  Sounds a little like digital slow-scan except that it never stops. I'm wondering if that is something from outside the country, or if some disgruntled jerk who hates ESSB.  ESSB sometimes seems to frustrate the kooks more than AM does.

And then, of course, we still have the Ethiopian jammers wiping out nearly all the useful portion of 40m nearly every evening.

I would like to hear more AM activity down below 3700.  Even during peak congestion, there is usually loads of vacant space between 3600 and about 3660. We had a good AM presence in that part of the band right after the expansion.  Why couldn't  we maintain it?

I sometimes get burnt out talking only to slopbucketeers who have just fired up their riceboxes on AM for the first time.  Sure, it's fine to do that, it may attract a few newcomers to AM, and I am always glad to help a newcomer get started, but another way to maintain AM presence and attract a few newcomers would be to have seasoned AMers regularly in QSO in that part of the band.  I do hear the Florida guys from time to time, but we need a few more tall ships from all over the country - and not everyone piled together on one frequency in a 8-10 member buzzardly roundtable.

[K1JJ]

Don, about the strange tones and hash noise on 75M...

Over the last week I've heard these strange tones that sound like modern voice communications followed by wide band hash. It starts and stops over 10-20 seconds and sometimes lasts much longer. I heard it in the 3790 area the other night and seemed like it was stalking a few QSOs there. At first I thought it might be some military guys having some fun in the ham bands with a big mawl. It was coming out of Europe for sure.

But I've been hearing it above 3800 too, as you did lately.  For me, it is all coming from the Northeast, likely eastern Canada or Eu.   

I'll bet it is related to the commotion going on in the Middle East and is military stuff.

T

[KD6VXI]

I was talking with K4KYV Don last night on 3885 and we had the same problem on my end...  That stupid whooshing sound...

It's interesting that people on the East Side hear it best when pointing into Eu and Af...  Out here, the guys with rotatables and 4squares seem to say it comes from China....

Anyway, it's a phenomena that's heard across the country...  And it SUCKS.

Don, sounded REALLY good into my station last night!

--Shane
KD6VXI

[WB2EMS]

Does anyone know what the digital voice (DV) modems sound like? Like the AOR units that were in QST a while back? I wonder if it is people trying some of those out. The 'roger beep' would seem to fit in with that kind of operations, and I think they use multicarrier codec similar to the DRM stuff that the digital sstv programs like EasyPal use. Also, EasyPal does do a little blip at the end of each transmission where it can 'scribe' the call of the sending station in the waterfall and that sounds different than the wideband hash of the main multicarrier transmission. That might fit what was described. Someone sending dsstv over and over with the end scribe could sound like two stations exchanging data.

http://www.dvara.org/ has some info on the dv modems.

[K6IC]

I,  too,  have heard this broad-banded NOISE.  Here it is very LOUD.  It seemed to me to be intentional QRM,  altho,  I've not studied it carefully. 

And,  Yes,  KYV Don sure does have a commanding Channel Master signal all the way out here in Left.  73   Vic

[wb4iuy]

Don, sounded REALLY good into my station last night!
--Shane
KD6VXI

Don always sounds good into everyone's station! Big sigs here in NC from him :-)

[W1AEX]

The past few evenings I have been noticing another new one down on 3630, right on the frequency where the ESSB guys hang out.  That one runs continuously,  not-stop all evening, with about the same bandwidth as a  an AM signal or slightly narrower.  Sounds a little like digital slow-scan except that it never stops.

Yes, this one is quite persistent Don. When I'm in the station I always have some equipment sitting on 3640 to chat with a few guys throughout the day and can see the digital signal sitting on 3630 no matter what time it is. It does sound very much like digital slow scan but my DSSTV software doesn't recognize it. I have seen amateur digital signals on 3630 throughout the day but nothing like this. At any rate, we were discussing it today as we operated down there and came to the same conclusion Tom JJ did, that it's probably military or diplomatic data streams related to events going on in the mid-east. I have no doubt that it will disappear when things quiet down and we will never know what it was or where it came from. "Nothing to see here, move along... "

[KX5JT]

This is the noise that I too thought was angry slopbucketteers back in Dec, but someone said they thought it was the "Chinese Dragon". See http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?topic=26740.msg202621#msg202621  Not everyone was hearing it then but apparently it's being heard now coast to coast.  

I don't believe it's malicious because it the pattern isn't showing it to be.  It occurs from time to time when the frequencies are clear too.  It would really be horrifying to find out it's amateur digital voice and they have no regard for other modes.

Whatever it is it SUCKS!!!

[wb4iuy]

It would really be horrifying to find out it's amateur digital voice and they have no regard for other modes.

I don't know anything about digital voice. Are there any links or sites that describe this? I'd like to read and learn a bit about it.

Dave WB4IUY
www.WB4IUY.net

[Pete, WA2CWA]

It would really be horrifying to find out it's amateur digital voice and they have no regard for other modes.

I don't know anything about digital voice. Are there any links or sites that describe this? I'd like to read and learn a bit about it.

Dave WB4IUY
www.WB4IUY.net

http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technology/tis/info/pdf/x0301049.pdf

http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Technology/tis/info/pdf/0202038.pdf

http://www.aorusa.com/others/pdf/ard9800_catalog_letter_a.pdf

http://www.aorusa.com/others/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9ZeAuw8R6w&feature=related

http://www.eham.net/articles/6766

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFEhse9tGy0

Google: amateur digital voice for many more links