Where is everyone?

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Exactly - nothing more than a self-imposed jail.

You have a VFO. Use it.

[w1vtp]

3885 is a calling frequency for AM.  It is not a "prison" nor is it "our" frequency.  On other bands / modes calling frequencies are meant only to establish contact.  In my experience on 2M SSB I would park my rx on the calling frequency so I could hear anyone who happened to be within "ear shot"  On sporadic E we would move off if the calling frequency became busy.  Common courtesy for SSB'ers would be to give AM'ers some space so they could hear weak signals.  Once a QSO was established it could QSY to another quieter spot on the band - assuming VFO capabilities and finals that can be easily tuned up to a newer frequency.

I could see (especially with panadaptors) establishing contace on any of the popular "calling frequencies" and then moving off to any part of the band that happened to be open.  As it happens we tend to be gregarious and stick on the frequency as a roundtable.

Just my 2 cents

Al

[ke7trp]

There is little AM activity below that area.  I have called CQ for 30 minutes straight down at 3855 and just get SSBers warbling back to me.  I will try again tonight. I agree. We need to move to other areas, My point was that when you do, You will just have even more FLACK from the SSbers. 

C

[KA1ZGC]

I'm with Tom on this one. I don't have a prejudice towards or against any particular frequency. If I hear someone on 3725 I want to talk to, I fire up on 3725. If I hear someone on 3885 I want to talk to, I fire up on 3885. It really is that simple.

[W2VW]

It really is that simple.

Until you have to pick a place to call seeking you.

[KA1ZGC]

It really is that simple.

Until you have to pick a place to call seeking you.

Nah. No shortage of unused bandspace out there these days.

By the way, you mis-spelled "seeking you are zed". 

[W2VW]

It really is that simple.

Until you have to pick a place to call seeking you.

Nah. No shortage of unused bandspace out there these days.

By the way, you mis-spelled "seeking you are zed". 

I am not Zed.

[KB5MD]

Don,  I heard you and Brandon, KF5IIA on last night and wanted to say "howdy" but the eyelids were just too heavy, maybe tonight.  Had to work today.

[WA3VJB]

Don,  I heard you and Brandon, KF5IIA on last night and wanted to say "howdy" but the eyelids were just too heavy, maybe tonight.  Had to work today.

I heard YOU, almost, when you answered my Seek-You the other night.
I got your calls, and Arkansas, and later looked you up on QR-Zed to match what I thought I heard.

Try again, anytime you hear me on.

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Geez, Todd, what happened to the KW1 this time???

Well, suffice it to say that I broke it, Ralph. I've got to tear out a component and send it out for dissection and inspection before knowing for sure. I'm blaming myself, for throwing the thing back on the air when I still had a few little items on the list to 'tidy up' before doing so. Just got impatient being off the air.

There is little AM activity below that area.  I have called CQ for 30 minutes straight down at 3855 and just get SSBers warbling back to me.  I will try again tonight. I agree. We need to move to other areas, My point was that when you do, You will just have even more FLACK from the SSbers. 

That's gotta be right up there with the "I'm not good at calling CQ" excu.....reason someone gave a while back. There is no AM Window aside from the online AM resource site. There are just amateur bands with plenty of open frequencies to operate on. If we all worried about possibly getting grief from some nitwit operator, SSB or otherwise, we'd never get on.

One thing is for sure, Clark: if you decide to shut the radio off and read a book instead, no one will notice or mind but you. It's your time and your choice, after all. 

[K5UJ]

i don't get much time to operate and have not operated AM very long but in my brief experience CQing I've tried going down south of 3880 with poorer results.   I've called CQ on 3705 for example for 20 or 30 minutes (with an hour to operate) and given up only to get a QSO immediately in the much despised "window."   I'd say on average my chance of getting a CQ reply is 4 times better on 3880 or 3885; that's why I CQ in the window.   if I had hours to operate (and maybe one of those robots) it would be different.  not complaining--this is just how I see it for me.   Why?  I don't know--my theory is that a lot of ops park a rx in the window while they putter around the house doing chores.  When they hear a CQ they go to the rig and answer if they feel like it.   Not everyone has a fish finder--hams with old rx put it in the window and wait I bet.  p.s.  I am getting tired of running a ricebox and leenyar--i am spending more time trying to get a real AM rig on the air, what Jack K9ACT calls, "A man's rig." hi hi (anything big and plate modulated).
73
rob

[ke7trp]

Example:

Just came in from work. Fired up the big rig.  Tuned around.  SSBers clustered from 3868 to 3890. I can hear some carriers of some am'rs talking but 40 DB over of SSB clatter is killing my RX.  I went down the band to a vacant spot. Called CQ for 10 minutes.  Had 4 SSbers come in and say "Bra bra brump bra bra bra" then one yelled that again very loud and angry sounding.  Oh well.

I think this is flawed.  AM guys do not scan the band for other AM signals for the most part.  They test to listen to the windows on each band to find AM or Call CQ there in the windows.  You could spend 2 hours calling CQ and get nothing bu angry SSbers down the band.
 

C

[KB2WIG]

  "  You will just have even more FLACK from the SSbers.  "

Well, you can always ask them for help and then ask if thar's a carrier on yer signal....   fun times ..

klc

[ke7trp]

Tune in to 3870 and listen to the west coast AMI net going on right now with the SSBers arguing and bitching that there are AM'rs on there Frequency. Its a net thats been going on for years LOL.   

C

[k4kyv]

Strap softly and turn up the wick.

[Jim KF2SY]

Example:

Just came in from work. Fired up the big rig.  Tuned around.  SSBers clustered from 3868 to 3890. I can hear some carriers of some am'rs talking but 40 DB over of SSB clatter is killing my RX.  I went down the band to a vacant spot. Called CQ for 10 minutes.  Had 4 SSbers come in and say "Bra bra brump bra bra bra" then one yelled that again very loud and angry sounding.  Oh well.

I think this is flawed.  AM guys do not scan the band for other AM signals for the most part.  They test to listen to the windows on each band to find AM or Call CQ there in the windows.  You could spend 2 hours calling CQ and get nothing bu angry SSbers down the band.

C

Exactly!  It's like going to a gigantic hamfest to meet your buds and never agreeing or selecting on a meeting place.  Would you stand atop picnic tables and shout their names?  No.  

Lets be honest here.  It's just semantics.  "Windows", "ghettos", "gathering places".  it's all the same familiar AM places for the operator.  

Let's see (Greater NE area and beyond) , there is the familiar "ghetto" 3885 area,  the Mid-Atlantic east coast guys often use 3733.  Canadian AM ers can be heard around 3725.  Activity sometimes "heard" (herd?)   on 3705 as well.  Are they AM windows? ghetto's? Yup!

It's all good, but realistically when we do turn our creaky VFO's it's often to a familiar AM "gathering spot" or "Window".  Nothing wrong with that.   It's less cumbersome than shouting CQ for hours and just pizzing off ssb'ers    Again, lets be honest here.  

[WA3VJB]

Pretty much what Al said, especially the reality of the situation.

It is not practical to call any of our gathering spots a "calling frequency" since few people call and move elsewhere.  It's an operating frequency or range of frequencies, where people stay put once they establish or join a QSO.

Some people break away and continue elsewhere when a roundtable gets too large, proving that it is possible to actually MOVE after a conversation has already begun !

Amazing discovery.

But instead of moving 10 or 15Kc away, take a look down low on 80M or 40M and come back and announce that's where you'll be.

This answers the problem of people not dialing around to look for AM activity because they're creatures of habit. (and helps us poor people who don't have panadapters.)

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

I think this is flawed.  AM guys do not scan the band for other AM signals for the most part.  They test to listen to the windows on each band to find AM or Call CQ there in the windows.  You could spend 2 hours calling CQ and get nothing bu angry SSbers down the band.

You could spend 2 hours calling CQ and get a response from aliens, too.  A lot of things could happen.

Your assertion/assumption above that AMers do not "scan the band" for other AM signals is just plain wrong. Well, let me qualify that: it may be true for your geographic area, but certainly not for the east coast, south, or midwest judging by the contacts I've had with them. Not that there aren't folks in these locations who cluster on the same frequency day after day, there are. I remember talking with Mike KO6NM a few years back and he explained that 3870 became the choice for AMers on the left coast due to several of the guys operating rockbound broadcast transmitters. It certainly explains it, but that's still a choice, not a requirement.

Fortunately, there are plenty of people elsewhere spinning their receiver's tuning knob and listening as they look for activity or a place to create some. Whether on 40 or 80m, I seldom call CQ without getting one or several responses. And in other portions of the band than any imaginary 'window'.

If nothing else, this discussion clearly highlights the two most prevalent styles of operating AM: those who turn on their sets, tune to a pre-determined area in hopes of finding some activity, and those you seek out activity anywhere within the limits of their license class, or create activity if there is none. 

[ke7trp]

Naw,   Most listen on the  win DOZ and never move....   Maybe a few of you go down to 7160 to check on 40 meters... But very, very few is activily looking for AM across the band..  KAWMAWN.



C

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

"Most" is your opinion, which reflects your area and license class.  As evidenced by the postings of many others on here who operate elsewhere, a good number operate below 3800 daily/nightly. 40 is more sparse at night.

Maybe it's time to upgrade the ol' license, Clarky? That would certainly allow you outside the box, even if you choose not to think outside of it?  

There's a big, fun world of AM out there beyond the box, just a-waiting.....Just Do it! Re-tuning is scary at first, but after you've done it a few times it becomes second nature.  

We're all pullin' for ya!!

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

If we all agree that not only will we call CQ on clear frequencies and that we will tune and listen for others on frequencies other than the "some-old, same-old", the problems is solved. Sure, it will take time to get others to get on board. Sure, you may even call CQ a bit longer or (God forbid) call CQ and no one answers. So what? Is this any worse than not being able to operate on the "normal" frequency because it's in use by SSB?

We have the ability to change the situaltion. We can P&M about the problem or do something about it. I choose the latter.

[k4kyv]

An early-evening SSB net has apparently started up on 3705. I listened to them for a while last evening; it sounds like some kind of rag-chew net. They all seemed polite and well educated, and unlike the offshoot of 3892 that tried to dominate the frequency a couple of years ago, they didn't display the arrogant "slopbucket" attitude so commonly heard on 75.  Some of the members must be present or former broadcast engineers, since technical and broadcast topics kept surfacing in the conversation. I didn't hear anyone mention anything about ever working AM.

I didn't attempt to join them, nor did I feel like P&Ming about their being on an "AM frequency".  I had heard them on before and they seem to close out fairly early in the evening, so they shouldn't affect work with the Euro-AM crowd later in the evening. There are plenty of other open frequencies in that part of the band, above and below 3700, that AMers can use while they are having their net.

The real attitude test will come next time there happens to be an ongoing AM QSO on or near the frequency when it is time for their net to start up. Will they patiently wait till the AM QSO is over, move to another nearby frequency, politely request the AMers to move, start up right on top of the AM QSO like the 40m No-Traffic net often does, or go ballistic and try to run the AMers off? Of course the attitude and response of the AM operators on frequency will make a big difference, too.

[KA1ZGC]

"Most" is your opinion, which reflects your area and license class.  As evidenced by the postings of many others on here who operate elsewhere, a good number operate below 3800 daily/nightly. 40 is more sparse at night.

First of all, let's not start the whole class warfare thing again, okay? Hams are supposed to be above that, and no good ever comes of it.

Secondly, Clark does have a point. When the expansion happened, there was an exodus of people to the 3700-3735 window who now permanently roost there. That's all good and fine, it's their radio and license; but when those same people talk down to people who choose to also operate in the 3870-3890 area from time to time (like me) and accuse them of jailing themselves or boxing themselves in because of it, it's a bit disingenuous. Don't tell me that doesn't happen, because I've caught plenty of crap for going back up there. These people are boxing themselves in, too, they've just chosen a different box and called it "freedom".

The mentality there is "my window is better than your window". Well, so freakin' what if it is? What does it matter to these people what someone else's ham radio experience is? The truth is, it doesn't actually matter to them, it just gives them something to feel superior about. That mentality serves no positive purpose.

No, that's not true of everybody (and nobody said it was), but it is true of some, and it leaves some people with the same impression that Clark is left with. He's got the same right to his opinions that you have, no matter what his license class.

And finally, why does anyone consider any of this to be a "problem"? People are going to operate their stations the way they see fit. That's their right, too.

[k4kyv]

Lately, I have been operating in the Window (AKA the Ghetto) more often, because the recent dearth of activity makes it possible to have a QSO that doesn't quickly grow to 8 or more members, and it is possible to have a real conversation. When that part of the band gets crowded and chaotic, I prefer to operate in the vicinity of 3700 where there is less signal density.  Perhaps I should start calling CQ around 3650 and see what happens.

Also, the spectrum above 3900 has been practically devoid of AM for decades.  This is a remnant of the old "gentlemens agreement" from the 50s and 60s when SSB operated above 3900 and AM below, followed by the first phase of incentive licensing when 3900 and above became impossibly congested since that was the only place Generals could operate. Now, I notice that there are clear spots throughout the evening above 3900 as well as below, as the overall level of activity on the band seems to have dropped off considerably from just a few years ago. Maybe a few AM trial balloons towards the high end would be in order this upcoming season.

In retrospect, even though I already had Extra when it went into effect and didn't affect my privileges, my observation is that the "class distinctions" brought about by incentive licensing was one of the most devastating things ever to happen to amateur radio in the USA.

[W2XR]

"Most" is your opinion, which reflects your area and license class.  As evidenced by the postings of many others on here who operate elsewhere, a good number operate below 3800 daily/nightly. 40 is more sparse at night.

First of all, let's not start the whole class warfare thing again, okay? Hams are supposed to be above that, and no good ever comes of it.

Secondly, Clark does have a point. When the expansion happened, there was an exodus of people to the 3700-3735 window who now permanently roost there. That's all good and fine, it's their radio and license; but when those same people talk down to people who choose to also operate in the 3870-3890 area from time to time (like me) and accuse them of jailing themselves or boxing themselves in because of it, it's a bit disingenuous. Don't tell me that doesn't happen, because I've caught plenty of crap for going back up there. These people are boxing themselves in, too, they've just chosen a different box and called it "freedom".

The mentality there is "my window is better than your window". Well, so freakin' what if it is? What does it matter to these people what someone else's ham radio experience is? The truth is, it doesn't actually matter to them, it just gives them something to feel superior about. That mentality serves no positive purpose.

No, that's not true of everybody (and nobody said it was), but it is true of some, and it leaves some people with the same impression that Clark is left with. He's got the same right to his opinions that you have, no matter what his license class.

And finally, why does anyone consider any of this to be a "problem"? People are going to operate their stations the way they see fit. That's their right, too.

Well put, Thom.

This is simply a hobby meant for the enjoyment of everyone, at their own pace and level of involvement. If Clark feels comfortable with his current mode of operation, so be it. There is no need for any statements by anyone, either implicit or implied, of political correctness here; there is a wide range of acceptability as to how and where any us wants to operate. If he wants to remain on a familiar or comfortable (for him) part of the band, that's great. And as Steve/HUZ had mentioned, if he wants to turn the VFO, that's OK too.

73,

Bruce