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Author Topic: Adventures in High Voltage Breakdown  (Read 8907 times)
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Todd, KA1KAQ
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« on: October 02, 2010, 01:16:44 PM »

Thought it might be a good idea to follow up the nekkid pics of the transmitter in the QSO section with the reason and findings for the stripped down look.

As some are well aware (mainly those whom I've been pestering for answers through email), I've had some HV issues for a while with the KW-1. In all honesty, I've had a number of issues over the past few years, from bias problems to blown mod iron. Most of them can be traced back to my own actions, unfortunately. Pinching a Sprague Atom into a clip that it was too big for caused the bias problem, for example. And who can I blame for blowing the modulation transformer since I was at the mic?

The HV has been another issue, though. It's bedeviled me in a number of ways off and on since getting the old girl back on the air in 2006. They probably existed back in 89 or 90 when I first fired it up, but since it wasn't on the air for a long period, the problems never surfaced.

One of the first issues that many will be familiar with (since most of us have been through it)was the blowing of line fuses. On this transmitter, it takes two 15A screw in types like the fuse boxes of yesteryear. Two things I did to combat this: replaced the 872 MV rectifiers with 4B32 Xenon and bought a large stock of 15A fuses in bulk, 100 or so, on ebay. This worked great for a while. No more flashovers, don't think I used more than half a dozen fuses in 2-3 years.

But it would still toss fuses now and then, usually after or even during a long, buzzarding transmission. Then last year things went bad fast just before Shelby when Steve was talking with Getty N2GBF on 40m. A large purple *ZORCH* appeared in the tank area followed less than an hour later by blowing fuses. This time it blew the fuses as soon as you keyed the transmitter. A long, slow process of elimination took place with help from WA2PJP, W3GMS, W3JN, WB3HUZ, K4OZY and probably others I've missed. JP/OZY even brought a HV supply over to test components in the HV supply for breakdown and we found none, yet the problem persisted. After a steep learning curve (for me, that is) and a lot of reassurance from others since HV scares the HELL out of me, I was able to finally isolate the problem or so I thought. The multi-tap choke in the splatter filter had apparently shorted to ground and was only showing up under load. The problem is, I had bypassed this filter networks YEARS ago upon the advice of Uncle Ed 'PUN and Jay Bromley, now W5JAY. Or so I thought, at least.

When JP was walking through the components with me testing them for leakage to ground, I told him that choke was bypassed, no need to check it. He said "you do realize it still has high voltage on it though, right?". No, I did not. Seems I'd only bypassed one side, moving a HV lead directly to the lead traveling up to the RF deck. Ooops. So at some point when Steve was talking, most like just by random luck, this choke shorted to ground (apparently). After doing a bit more cypherin' since Collins neglected to label the myriad of HV lines collected in the supply, I was able to fully bypass this network and bring the beast back to life.

For about a month. Last week while signing off with the afternoon group on 3705...*poof*. Tossed the two line fuses. Installed two more, said two words, *poof* - two more. I figured it was related to the problem I was having trying to load up in the 75m ghetto portion of the band, karma catching up with me since I'd bragged ho well the rig loaded to the aerial down on 80.

After whining to some of my usual sources like a 5 yr old whose fingers had been slammed in a door and getting some very basic advice (no, not GTFA), the tear down began in search of the problem.

And I found a few, at least one of which was clearly a culprit that I had been waned about repeatedly by WA2PJP, the resident KW-1 expert. I'll list them here and provide a few photos, since the main culprit is just too incredible to believe, at least for my limited mental faculties.

1.) First thing I found was a star washer, sitting atop of the door knob caps in the plate blocking circuit between te 4-250s. There it was, perched between the top metal strap and the center post of the doorknob. "WOW" thinks me, that could cause a short circuit.....if it wasn't already tied together mechanically and electrically. Yep, the post was attached to the plate, nothing to short out. And sadly, this is yet another Bigelow-induced faux gremlin, since I had to replace one of those caps back in 2006. Apparently that top washer wasn't on the screw when I tightened it.

2.) Next I found a place where a piece of buss wire in the tank circuit passes through a hole maybe 1/2" in diameter, connecting bottom of the chassis stuff to top of the chassis stuff (hope that's not too technical). In this case, the wire was not bent, but was still much closer to one side of the BARE metal chassis than the other, and it looked to me (imaginary or otherwise) like there were arc tracks on that very edge! I carefully persuaded the wore back towards the center, knowing in my heart that Art Collins would approve of my moving an original piece of wire for the safety of the rig. Mhm. I then checked another near the back of the deck and did the same, just to feel better.

3.) Here's the biggie, since Joe/PJP had asked me about this several times, warning me that he had the same symptoms from it. On this transmitter as with many others, there are feed-thru points for the HV which utilize those nifty little Millen 2 pc porcelain insulators. These are the kind that have a small inside with a hole through the center for a long, threaded stud used to collect both pieces tightly together against gaskets on the chassis. A few months back when Joe had asked me if I'd checked these, I checked the one on the back of the RF deck and it was as clean as a whistle, like it came from the factory. I um....didn't check the one up front that goes to the neutralizing cap because it involved removing the top front panel (2 seconds) and then the screen in front of the PA tubes (5 minutes) and possibly having to get beneath the chassis to have access to the stud which involved removing one of the back covers (22 screws, think Johnson Flashbox). So using my superior powers of extrapolation, I decided if the back insulator was clean, that front one should be as well, by golly.

And I was right. It was, when I finally checked it Thursday. Only one problem: I missed a third insulator of the same type connected to the plate choke and carrying 2500 volts. Huh! As I loosened this one, it had a grinding sand-inside feeling to it. When I removed it, I could see why. A zorch! A tiny, black zorch on the outside/top piece. So I spun the lower piece around a bit, and sure enough - there was another one, a mating zorch, if you will. At this point I was really annoyed with myself for being so negligent in checking these insulators previously (even though I didn't remember this one in the first place). And it's a difficult size insulator to find, too. But as luck would have it, and I do mean Luck, when going through some tubes two weeks ago in the other garage I came across a small box of porcelain insulators, and there was a NOS spare. Pure Luck.

After pulling the bottom piece out and inspecting it, I was amazed to see a small pin hole running somewhat diagonally through the inner sleeve where the HV had basically bored a hole through. And sure enough, there on the edge of the chassis was a little black mark. HV short to ground, apparently not always continuous, but always there. Or not? Even the upper gasket had a wee burn mark along its edge.

4.) In the process of removing this insulator I also discovered what is possibly a bad doorknob cap beneath the deck, used as HV Line Bypass, connected to the insulator stud with a piece of buss wire. Noticing they were a little loose, I started to tighten them by hand only to notice a lot of lateral movement once they were tight. Like one of the plates was loose. Turns out it was the top one, and as luck would have it - I had a spare (Thanks Dave Schneider!) purchased at the same time as the other I'd replaced in 2006.

5.) I'd also removed the top loading air-variable to de-burrrrrr any plates with zorches, the original suspect in the blown fuse scenario. After some cleaning and polishing, it went back in Thursday night and by 1:45 I'd finally gotten the last tiny screw and nut securing the side straps from the tank circuit tightened down. The toughest part of the whole ordeal, I did swear a lot.

So to make a long-winded story even longer, I got the rig cleaned up and reassembled by 4PM yesterday and had it on the air for testing. Other than blowing two fuses by having the rig waaaay out of resonance (in the TUNE position, thankfully) while playing with it, things seemed good. So I got on 3710 and 3725 last night for some good ragchewing and aside from a couple *snik* sounds (should've checked those arc gaps while I had the cover off), no blown fuses! But much to my surprise, while talking with Tim VE6PG and Al VE3AJM, they both related similar stories - Tim, from a DX-100 he had with the same issue on the same insulator, and Al from a common friend Donovan VE1BD and his Marconi 501 with the same issue. Though I'd heard of these insulators breaking down on other KW-1s (it happened to 'PJP with identical symptoms), I'd never heard of it happening to a DX-100.

So the 'wild, unbelievable' fault that I found really isn't as odd or rare as I first thought. But it is pretty damned interesting, if you ask me. For HV to bore a hole through porcelain seeking a path to ground - and succeed - is just amazing. Makes you wonder why bother using an insulator if it's just going to cause problems?

Anyhow, for those who are still awake or reading at this point,  here are a few shots of my findings. First the wandering washer atop the doorknob cap, then the wire through chassis, after being moved.

The moral of the story is: don't be a dunderhead. Check *everything*. Don't assume, because when you assume, your transmitter breaks.


While not R@RE, they aren't really plentiful either. The 30K-5 uses 6 of them across the back for feedlines and it took me years to find enough. These are the same except smaller.


* KW-1cap4.JPG (304.69 KB, 1600x1200 - viewed 525 times.)

* KW-1tank2.JPG (302.17 KB, 1200x1600 - viewed 465 times.)
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Todd, KA1KAQ
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« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2010, 01:18:53 PM »

And the zorched insulator with its accompanying chassis zorch, both hidden from view until disassembled.

Joe/GMS - I haven't yet tested the rig to see if it loads up on 75 without flashing over but will call you once I do. Hopefully it will be a happy camper now.


* KW-1_insulator2.JPG (248.85 KB, 1600x1200 - viewed 493 times.)

* KW-1_insulator4.JPG (249.55 KB, 1600x1200 - viewed 476 times.)

* KW-1_insulator5.JPG (316.16 KB, 1600x1200 - viewed 510 times.)
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w3jn
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« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2010, 01:26:23 PM »

Wow!  Good on ya for finding that  Perhaps multiple problems all feeding on each other - loose doorknob intermittently unloading stuff and causing a nice HV spike which then blew a hole in that insulator.
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« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2010, 01:36:20 PM »

Nice documentation of the event Todd. I never would have imagined that a porcelain insulator would fail in that way. I've had them crack, then fail under high voltage, but never saw evidence of the "boring" issue!

Good luck with the whole project!

Rob W1AEX
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Todd, KA1KAQ
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« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2010, 04:02:43 PM »

Same here, Rob - I've seen plenty of cracked insulators, or good insulators with carbon tracks along them causing similar problems. In this case, it was completely hidden from view when that insulator was in place. Doing its thing without a clue beyond HV problems. Though 'PJP knew or, at least, suspected it all along. One of the things to rule out that I finally got around to ruling out.

Perhaps multiple problems all feeding on each other - loose doorknob intermittently unloading stuff and causing a nice HV spike which then blew a hole in that insulator.

See, this is why you're one of the people I pester at times like this, Johnny. You put that all together and make sense out of it, whereas I just look at it and see broken part, loose part, etc and think nothing more of it. Just fix 'em and it works, so I think nothing more of it nor figure it out for future reference. Duh!  Grin

I'm just happy to have it working again. Next test is trying to load up on 3870 or above to see if the fireworks show returns in the loading cap. According to Steve's analyzer, it shouldn't.

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« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2010, 05:57:40 PM »

Todd,
  I would not have thought porcelain could fail that way.
  Good work in finding it. I also would have thought that if it were not cracked or have tracks on the outside it would be just fine.

  Again, good work finding it and good documentation of the "chase".

Bill KA8WTK
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« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2010, 08:57:44 PM »

Im sure Zorch will entertain us all at Nearfest Grin
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2010, 01:40:11 AM »

Dogged determination. Good find! Enjoy your new radio.   Cheesy
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« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2010, 09:41:00 AM »

Todd

Extremely interesting... and useful for future reference.

Thanks

Stu
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« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2010, 11:21:52 AM »

Interesting detective work, Todd.


I've had similar problems with those mating-type feedthrus. Back in the 70's I had a few sets of them taken from an old BC-610, IIRC.  One by one they all zorched out, some spectacularly.  Since then I have never trusted that style and use regular stand-off ceramic insulators with the HV wire going through a grommet, etc.

The only exception is when you get a set that are grossly over-sized for the job. I have a few sets I bought for openwire that worked FB, but they were like 5" long and 2" diameter.

Anyway, considering you want exact replacements for you KW-1, just keep and eye out for more arcing in the future, or sandwich in a bigger set.  I won't tell the Collins gods...  Wink

T
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« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2010, 12:01:58 PM »

Tom,
I started using teflon tubing on the big ones after setting the back wall of the house on fire showing off the big rig to a friend. He wanted to see the meter spin when I keyed up. He yells in the house. Do you know there is smoke coming out of the wall by your feeders. Good thing the hose was connected 10 feet away. I bet if you replaced the threaded rod with 4-40 and put a couple layers of teflon tubing over the threads the failure will never happen again.  Look at a BC610. All packard 440 wire for HV.
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« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2010, 06:35:32 PM »

That's quite an amazing story there. Who would have thought one of those insulators would have fired through.
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« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2010, 12:42:18 AM »


Not sure, but I think I might sub in a home brew Teflon or Delrin feedthrough these days - might be preferable to the porcelain? The only thing is that the plastics need something to spread the force of a screw/nut tightening, but that shouldn't be much of an issue. No taper is needed. If higher voltage is required, then turning on a lathe to make an outer profile: _-_-_-_ will increase the effective length, increasing the voltage breakdown.

Not sure but even polycarbonate could be a candidate??

Think I have seen some commercial teflon feedthroughs on some bits of equipment.

I'm pretty sure that the zorch through of porcelain sockets has been mentioned a few times here. I'm not surprised because i have had porcelain sockets zorch, and have dissected defective HV ceramic caps (doorknobs too) and seen the black running through the ceramic!

Actually Todd, when I looked at the original pics you posted, I thought about that single feedthrough at the rear of the RF deck immediately, but I figured you (and you did) had already checked that! Cheesy

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« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2010, 04:05:06 PM »

Congratulations Todd for working through all the issues.  A bunch of little things all adding up in the wrong direction!  It makes me glad that during my restoration of the Johnson KW, I am removing and cleaning everything.  When you think about how old this stuff is and the heat humidity that its been in, it makes good sense to check everything before it breaks!
Can't wait to work you with the beast.
Regards,
Joe, W3GMS
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« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2010, 04:46:02 PM »

Joe, Those feedthrough insulators are not glazed inside so maybe they absorb moisture
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« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2010, 04:58:31 PM »

Frank,

I am sure they do Frank.  I know Todd's KW-1 has been in various enviroments over it life and I am sure that did not help.  With the surface being rough inside the feed through's its a great place to harbor moisture.  Once the arc starts its all over!

It reminds me when I was 16 with my first car and trying to figure out why it would not run right from an ignition standpoint.  The distributor cap inside developed a carbon trace and the old 225 slant 6 was trying to fire two plugs at the same time! 

Regards,
Joe, W3GMS       
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« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2010, 05:50:46 PM »

Had the same problem on KW1#9 20 years ago. I also chased that on a 30K1. My 21E had 6 0f the BIG bowl type feedthroughs on the HV chassis the same way. In fact they had been arcing so long that part of the threaded rod was sputtered away. This is the reason the station scrapped it--kept popping breakers. Their loss--my gain!!
Thanks for sharing the story Todd--and reminding us all that many of our crapouts start out with mechanical maintenance issues like this
Skip
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« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2010, 05:51:40 PM »

But being a slant 6, it DID run and both cylinders fired - as opposed to a Jag straight six that won't fire over 25% humidty
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« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2010, 06:14:41 PM »

John,

Yes it did and the 225 slant 6 was quite the engine.  I miss that old 62 Dodge Lancer with the Master Mobile Slim Jim antenna and the Elmac AF-67 and the SX-140 with the DC to DC converter attached to it! 
I sure leaned a lot working on the car since it was my first car...

Anyway Todd, glad you found the zorches! Get on 40 and we can talk sometime soon.   

Regards,
Joe, W3GMS   
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« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2010, 10:44:32 AM »

Well again, I have to give all credit to WA2PJP who gave me the heads up on this problem some months back when I was trying to debug the previous(?) HV issue. My bad for not checking them all then. I guess the good side of it is that the whole event not only allowed me to find and address other issues potentially adding to the problem, it was a great walk through of the tank circuit in particular, and RF deck in general.

Skip, it doesn't surprise me that you've come across this with all the gear you've handled. Dale KW1I mentioned it to me once years ago but I wasn't sure at the point what he was referring to: the insulators or those feed-thru caps on the back of the deck used for TVI purposes. Now I do know for sure. And will also look at the 30K-5 and 21E, tnx for the heads up.

Guess I was more lucky with the Jags I owned. Never a problem aside from losing the brakes once (exiting the interstate at 70+ mph with a '66 MKII) and that pos Borg Warner tranny used in the XJ-6. The engines always purred like kitties, BIG kitties, and were a thing of beauty. Especially the older version with the polished aluminum cam covers and dashpots. Only ever had one slant 6 in an old Dart, for maybe a month or so. Wasn't my cup-o-tea, too slow. Has to be in the Most Reliable class though, with the 318 and a few others.

So the transmitter is holding together, looks like time to try loading up on 75 to see what happens.  Shocked

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w3jn
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« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2010, 01:06:02 PM »

So I exaggerate a LITTLE.

This one says it all:  see 1:13  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTT1_JZp2Sg
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« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2010, 01:17:28 PM »

When has there ever been that little traffic in NYC?
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w3jn
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« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2010, 01:25:13 PM »

That movie was made in 1976 and I think it started at 0600 on a Sunday...
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