Boatanchor SSB on 160

[sndtubes]

I've never understood the whole vintage SSB thing (I mean, if you are going to run vintage gear what's wrong with AM) but in my opinion 160 m. was made for AM.  For one thing, it's practically a part of the standard broadcast band so putting any broadcast rig on 160 is a relatively easy process.  A lot of the antenna studies and practices of the broadcast industry can be applied to 160 m.  I'm 52 and I work plenty of hams my age or younger--I don't think of it as an OT band at all.  (This may vary from region to region.)  Collins made transmitters that work on 160--you just have to have a hell of a lot of money to get one:  KW1, 30K1 and avoid getting a stock 75A1.  It's probably easier getting on 160 with an AM rig than it is with a vintage SSB rig.   The keys to success there are running at least 200 w., having a decent tx antenna and a separate low noise rx antenna.  One of the problems on that band is guys who can't be made to believe that a dipole at under 100 feet is not going to work all that well except within a few hundred miles, and even then there will be ground loss.

Understood.  I actually don't operate much phone, anyway.  Mostly CW here.  But I do have 160 AM capability with my Viking II and do use it.  I probably won't use SSB much on 160, I just want the capability.  And I do get on 160 AM once in a while now.  I just put up a killer 160 meter Inverted L with a 60 foot vetical component and lots of 100 foot plus radials.  It's a great antenna for 160.  I never knew I could work so much DX on 160.

Thanks everyone for your opinions.  They've give me a few more ideas of where I might go with this.  A friend of mine has a 20A I think he might sell me.  I can drive my Emtron amp with that.  I think the VFO might not be stable enough, though.  I'd probably only use it during contests anyway, so the drift issue wouldn't be a huge deal.  There are also digital VFO stabilizers out there I may look into.

The Dentron converter is a good idea.  I might see if I can find one of those and try to use it with the KWS 1.  That would probably be the "bee's knees" if it worked.  I"d consider building one, but it would probably never get done......  It would have been SO nice if Collins had opted to put 160 meters on the KWS-1.  The put it on the KW-1......

I know of a good 100V that might be available and I might just take that route as well.  The Nick Tusa 160 meter converter could be installed for not too much money. 

But, most of the time if I decide to get on 160 fone, it will likely be on AM, anyway. 

thanks again guys, and any more opinions are surely welcomed!

73,
Mike WB0SND

[Pete, WA2CWA]

I've never understood the whole vintage SSB thing (I mean, if you are going to run vintage gear what's wrong with AM) but in my opinion 160 m. was made for AM.  For one thing, it's practically a part of the standard broadcast band so putting any broadcast rig on 160 is a relatively easy process.  A lot of the antenna studies and practices of the broadcast industry can be applied to 160 m.  I'm 52 and I work plenty of hams my age or younger--I don't think of it as an OT band at all.  (This may vary from region to region.)  Collins made transmitters that work on 160--you just have to have a hell of a lot of money to get one:  KW1, 30K1 and avoid getting a stock 75A1.  It's probably easier getting on 160 with an AM rig than it is with a vintage SSB rig.   The keys to success there are running at least 200 w., having a decent tx antenna and a separate low noise rx antenna.  One of the problems on that band is guys who can't be made to believe that a dipole at under 100 feet is not going to work all that well except within a few hundred miles, and even then there will be ground loss.

Easier work other stations on 160 meters with SSB equipment(vintage or otherwise). More stations on SSB then AM. Easier to work more distant stations on SSB even when band conditions suck. Broadcast rigs are big, bulky, sometimes ugly, and at times, require lots of diddling to get them to operate there. Lots more vintage SSB rigs (depending where you start the vintage clock) can operate SSB then AM rigs in roughly a similar time frame. 100 watt SSB rig can gather you many more contacts even with a modest antenna. Many amateurs live in residential areas with the typical modest size lot so full size 160 antennas with sufficient height can be a problem. You make do with whatever you can fit within the confines of your property. And for some, operating AM on 160, or any other band, probably is not really appealing to them.

[k4kyv]

If I wanted to run vintage SSB, I would dig out my copies of R/9 magazine from late 1933 and early 1934 and build the SSB exciter per the construction article that culminated the series, using nothing but period components.  The original article was for 75m, but it would take only a slight modification to make it work on 160.

If condx suck too badly or the QRN is too intense, I'd run CW.  I have made 100% solid CW contacts under staticky band condx on 160 in the middle of the summer after calling CQ on CW when there were no other signals, any mode, on the band at all.

If running AM is not appealing to the OP, I probably won't talk to them on phone because running SSB isn't appealing to me.  Maybe CW would be our lingua franca.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

"lingua franca" I think I saw something similar to this on an Olive Garden menu.

[K5UJ]

I said I don't understand vintage SSB interest; I didn't say I don't like it.  I don't understand the interest in QRP and have no desire to do anything with low power myself but that doesn't mean I don't like it, as long as no one running a few watts tries to work me.   If some ham out there wants to operate an old HW101 or Swan with 2.1 KHz IF filter he can knock himself out.   I happen to reside on a 50 x 100 foot lot but I have an inverted L on 160 with 101 radials.  The idea that vast tracts of land are needed for a full size antenna on 160 is a myth.

Anyway good luck MIke I am sure you will enjoy 160 whatever mode you use;  A lot of guys are having fun with the old CE rigs.  Lately, condx have been so poor even CW is a bit trying.  

73

Rob

[KX5JT]

"lingua franca" I think I saw something similar to this on an Olive Garden menu.

From Wikipedia:

A lingua franca (originally Italian for "Frankish language"—see etymology below) is a language systematically used to communicate between persons not sharing a mother tongue, in particular when it is a third language, distinct from both persons' mother tongues.[1]

This can also be referred to as working language or bridge language.

I'm expanding my vocabulary all the time with this amateur radio hobby!

[W9GT]

I said I don't understand vintage SSB interest; I didn't say I don't like it.  I don't understand the interest in QRP and have no desire to do anything with low power myself but that doesn't mean I don't like it, as long as no one running a few watts tries to work me.   If some ham out there wants to operate an old HW101 or Swan with 2.1 KHz IF filter he can knock himself out.   I happen to reside on a 50 x 100 foot lot but I have an inverted L on 160 with 101 radials.  The idea that vast tracts of land are needed for a full size antenna on 160 is a myth.

Anyway good luck MIke I am sure you will enjoy 160 whatever mode you use;  A lot of guys are having fun with the old CE rigs.  Lately, condx have been so poor even CW is a bit trying.  

73

Rob

The interest in QRP isn't all that hard to understand.  It is a basic aspect of amateur radio that hams are just by nature somewhat competitive and are always looking for new ways to expand their horizons.  For me, it is just another challenge, not a major direction in my pursuit of the hobby.  Myself, as well as several other AMers have built-up the little Retro75AM 2watt AM rigs....they work great and it has been fun playing around with them.  I wouldn't want to be stuck with two watts all the time, but its fun to see what you can do with flea power.  As for the vintage SSB stuff...well I haven't done too much recently, although I have owned several vintage rigs over the years.  Like many other diverse interests in the hobby....it is another route you can take to have fun and enjoy communicating with others who have similar interests.  It is true that much of the vintage SSB gear doesn't cover 160M.  The Dentron transverter is testimony to that.  I believe also P&H Labs had a similar unit in the 60's or 70's timeframe.  Anyway, its interesting to try and find something to fill the "vintage" category on 160M.

73,  Jack, W9GT

[Pete, WA2CWA]

"lingua franca" I think I saw something similar to this on an Olive Garden menu.

From Wikipedia:

A lingua franca (originally Italian for "Frankish language"—see etymology below) is a language systematically used to communicate between persons not sharing a mother tongue, in particular when it is a third language, distinct from both persons' mother tongues.[1]

This can also be referred to as working language or bridge language.

I'm expanding my vocabulary all the time with this amateur radio hobby!

Sort of like Rap.

[VK7ZL]

Jack,

   Running vintage SSB these days on any band is best done amongst friends. Otherwise if you break into a group that don't know you, and then maybe you drift 150 hz, your likely to hear, "hey OM, your drifting out of the band"! There is no allowance these days for drift amongst the appliance crowd, and a 'RIT' knob just isn't used.

 
Jim
WD5JKO

I saw the following on the Swan User Group some time ago:

A Ham asked his friend what freq the Swan net was on. The reply was - just listen on 40M they will drift by eventually.

Bob  VK7ZL

[k4kyv]

I remember those el cheapo "sideband for the masses" rigs from the mid-60's, the Swans, Galaxies and Heapshit "Hotwater" rigs, that did not include RIT. You would sometimes hear a QSO in which one rig would be a few Hz out of sync with the other (or the OPs' ears were out of sync), and every transmission each OP would adjust his rig slightly to "clarify" the sound of the other's voice. The QSO would migrate, a few Hz, one transmission at at a time, until it "walked" all way across and sometimes even out of the band.

[ke7trp]

Thats when radio was real radio..   You where an "operator", as you had to turn all kinds of knobs all the time   Now they are appliances like your microwave or coffee maker. You use them when you want.

C

[Superhet66]

** I just want to clarify that I wasn't trying to sell the "ISOTRON 160" to anyone.
 I copied & pasted an entire ad from e-pay. I thought it was relevent.
                                                                 DJ

I saw the following on the Swan User Group some time ago:

A Ham asked his friend what freq the Swan net was on. The reply was - just listen on 40M they will drift by eventually.

Bob  VK7ZL

That's funny.

 

[K6JEK]

I run a CE 100V for vintage SSB. In my opinion all phasing rigs sound better than all filter rigs.  A CE-20A is a classy choice.  For starters, it has a magic eye.  You have to love that.  

The 20A requires an external VFO, traditionally a BC458.  I know one guy who built a huff and puff circuit and got amazing stability out of the old stuff.  That plus a sideband slicer like the CE one mated to some nice old receiver would be a classy vintage SSB station.

Why do this?  It's hobby.  One more thing to do.

[Bill, KD0HG]

WHAT!? Have you not spanned the globe with the:

        Isotron 160m Stealth Ham Antenna, Featuring Dipole Performance 

"With the equivalent "capture" area in metal and a lower receive noise level, Isotrons often work as well as a full-size dipole!

 
MSRP:  $173.95

*     Bandwidth is within 2:1 SWR.  May vary with environment.
**   300 watt, CW (AM, FM, RTTY, etc.)

I can't believe that ad is for real..I just can't..Tell me it's a joke..

[KM1H]

I agree about phasing rigs, Ive had quite a few. Built a W2EWL and then had 10A, 10B, 20A, 100V, 200V, Phasemaster, HT-37. Many of the small ones were used to drive VHF/UHF gear. Didnt go xtal until the Drake C Line around 1985. The only vintage SSB I use these days is a HT32B and have a Gonset GSB-100 waiting for restoration so I can get back to the "sound" again.

Its not truly vintage but the TS-830 has the best SSB sound that Ive owned; I have 4 running 10 milliwatts out of the transverter port for the VHF and up gear.

Carl

[KM1H]

I use a pair of TS-940's on HF mostly for DX chasing on CW/SSB. They needed a bit of help in the RX and broadband noise department but the IMD is better than average in the -33/34 dm area; most of the crap on the market today is in the high 20's at rated power. I rebiased the driver and finals and internally reduced the power to around 80W and measured IMD pushing -40dB down. The 80W drives the LK-500ZC and MLA-2500 to 1200W which is more than sufficient to bust pileups, and it keeps those tubes happy much longer.

Carl

[Pete, WA2CWA]

The problem is trying to find decent vintage 160 meter SSB rigs that were not a total P.O.S. because most of them were. All the good stuff stopped a 80 meters and didn't go any lower like the Collins S Line for example. There were not that many except for maybe the Drakes, but that's just a small step up from the Swans

As Jack would say: "LOL"
How do you define "decent vintage"?
Of course, you do remember that back in the "good old days" amateurs had to share 160 meters with LORAN, and there were day and night power restrictions depending on where you lived in the U. S. I suspect many manufacturers had little incentive to add 160 meters to all the rigs they produced back in those LORAN days.

[ka3zlr]

Now just Wait a Minute....

Now just what kind of Ops have we got here spoiled Silicon DSP Abusers...

If'n it doesn't have a little drift just what do we expect to operate from what ever period of time this is about even Colons Crap SSB units Drifted...Wooo Hooo Jack said Colons not Colins...  

If it ain't Black and Bears analog dials and requires Tune and Load then it ain't chit..LOL

I'm gona start an anti-Swan defamation league on here...So there 

73

Jack.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

I'm sorry, but I'll take a more modern TS-520 or a TS-830 over any vintage SSB piece of junk any day of the week. Vintage gear and AM is one thing, but vintage SSB gear is a whole other ugly story.

Actually, the TS-520 only covered 80 through 10 meters. They added 160 meters to the TS-520S and 520SE. Drake TR-3, -4, -5, -7 all had 160 capability too and are great performers on 160.  Of course, a lot depends on where you place your "decent vintage" clock. The TS-520 series is almost 40 years old. I've used my CE 100, NCX-5, NCX-3, and Apache/SB-10 combo driving a 6 meter transverter on SSB for years. Don't recall anyone complaining about excessive drift. As I said earlier, vintage SSB nets are very common on the HF bands and they are great fun.

[WQ9E]

There were not that many except for maybe the Drakes, but that's just a small step up from the Swans

Hmmm,  That's like calling a BMW a small step up from a Yugo   Swan gear is interestingly quirky and fun to operate but I don't use mine a lot.  It is like a person who is fun to date but you sure wouldn't want to wake up to every morning.

For CW I still prefer either of my Drake C lines to any of my other vintage or modern gear.  The R-4C with the Sherwood narrow CW filter and an outboard Autek QF-1A or similar still does an excellent job of pulling weak CW out of the noise.  Stability is no problem and unlike some of the modern stuff the knobs are big enough to turn one without changing something else by accident.

I have a bunch of Trio/Kenwood including the early JR-310/TX-310 "twins", a TS-520S, TS-820S, TS-830, and a couple of 599 twins.  I just picked up a pair of 599D twins with speaker and all original boxes for $125 at a hamfest.  Of course the transmitter doesn't cover 160 but if that were really an issue it isn't that difficult to homebrew a reasonable powerful transverter for 160.  Kenwood is nice but I still like my Drakes better.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Actually, the TS-520 only covered 80 through 10 meters. They added 160 meters to the TS-520S and 520SE.

When I said TS-520 and TS-830 the "S" was supposed to be implied.

Notice that I didn't mention the P.O.S. TS-820S

Been there and done all that already too...

Ah, yes, "implied". I guess "D" was also implied for the 520 and "M" for the 830. Then there was also the 530 series which also worked quite well. Used a TS-820S during Field Day for several years. Great rig and a very reliable performer. Always held up well even during evening Field Day pileups on 75 or 20 meters.

[KM1H]

I made 160M DXCC and the first 5 Band WAZ in New England with a Drake C Line. With a couple of easy mods the receiver was great, never had TX problems once I put a muffin fan on the final cage. It was just a PITA in contests for rapid band hopping so I went with the TS-930 and then the 940.

I can honestly say that I have never owned a Swan. After hearing them drift I was convinced. The only thing worse was a Eico 753.

BTW, the Hammarlund covered 160 if you bought the option.

Carl

[ka3zlr]

Actually, the TS-520 only covered 80 through 10 meters. They added 160 meters to the TS-520S and 520SE.

When I said TS-520 and TS-830 the "S" was supposed to be implied.

Notice that I didn't mention the P.O.S. TS-820S

Been there and done all that already too...

Ah, yes, "implied". I guess "D" was also implied for the 520 and "M" for the 830. Then there was also the 530 series which also worked quite well. Used a TS-820S during Field Day for several years. Great rig and a very reliable performer. Always held up well even during evening Field Day pileups on 75 or 20 meters.

Speaking of ts-820's I have one coming in for service filter chages an so forth..So what's the problem with 820's something Ishould know about..??

73

Jack.

[WQ9E]

I am curious also.  I have had a TS-820S with R-820 receiver setup for several years and they perk along with no problem.  I admired them when they first came out MANY years ago when I was a young novice and bought one when I found a nice one at the right price.  The PLL setup for the shortwave bands was a little touchy on the R-820 but that is the only problem I have experienced.  I also had to replace some capacitors in the matching scope but nothing major there either. 

I have experienced zero problems with the matching TL-922A amplifier since I haven't found one yet

[WQ9E]

I had forgotten about the 820 display issue; Kenwood wasn't the only manufacturer to suffer from the idea of using plated through holes.  This also was a problem with their add on digital displays.

The modern rig that was the biggest pain for me was replacing the miniature relays in my FT-102.  I enjoy the rig now that it works and I do have the AM board in mine but I wouldn't want to go through the relay replacement again.