road trip!! New Mexico Sunday May 31 till June 6 or 7 Gammatron madness

[Opcom]

Rosewll, NM, Black Hole Surplus in Los Alamos, and whatever else. I'll be on the lookout for unusual electronic stuff.  

Know about Skeeter & Electronic Surplus Co, Albuquerque; but the phone # is dead there.. no way to contact.

Any suggestions for wierdstuff/junkpiles/surplus along the route?

Return route is likely via Amarillo and Wichita Falls back to Dallas TX.


Too bad I don';t have 2 weeks. Always wanted to go further and see the black mailbox and the gate to Area 51. Just to say I have seen it. haha but it is much further away for me.

[W7TFO]

Try Apache Reclamation in Alb.  Then eat at Wecks or Flying Star.

73

[Opcom]

Thanks! Tomorow, will drive to the VLA site and then to albuquerque. Today went and saw some sights and what I saw brings up an interesting historical question about the Gammatron.

I visited the Roswell Museum and ART Center in Roswell,NM. (This is the official museum, not the UFO museum.)

In the Goddard exhibit, the museum has shown Goddard's prowess with vacuum tube invention. The section says that he invented a tube called a Gammatron.

Three items are together.
One is a picture of him making a tube with seems like it might be a prototype of the device shown in the patent.
One is a picture of the drawings of patent 1,159,209, which is a vacuum oscillator using a magnetic feedback method via a coil to switch an electron beam back and forth between two anodes.
The third item is a reproduction of an advertisement for the Heintz and Kaufman Gammatron, which is known to be an electrostatic grid controlled triode.

I do not know the connection between the Heintz and Kaufman product and the patent device. When I was done at the museum which includes all sort of exhibits besides the preserved Goddard laboratory, I asked the counter staff to take a look at this with me. They sent an employe to explain the exhibit. I ended up explaining the principles of operation of the patent device and the Heintz and Kaufman product, and concluded that they were two different types of devices operating on different principles regarding oscillation.

The staff member, now understanding the design and technical difference and in ageement, was rather at a loss to exlain the connection. Gamma is a vacuum tube parameter. Was there a marketing trademark arrangement between Goddard and Heintz and Kaufman to allow them to use the Gammatron name?

All I succeeded in doing was to annoy the employee. Who knows the rest of the Gammatron story, and/or the story of the patented tube?

[k4kyv]

As I understand it, the "gridless" Gammatron tubes were developed to get around the RCA patent monopoly.  There are ads for them in the 1930's era Frank C Jones Radio Handbooks.

I have never read anything about how well they actually worked. Later on, H & K manufactured conventional tubes with grids. They are somehow the forerunners of Eimac.

[Opcom]

Perhaps then, the museum ought to find that old ad, and display it instead. I guess they got the wrong tube type by mistake. I found this but he is not sure what part number it is.
http://home.comcast.net/~n6jv/hk155a.html  has a page about it and full size pictures. I would like to see an installation picture and schematic

[Opcom]

Yesterday, the VLA site was visited. We spent about 3 hours there and it was well worth it to learn a little more about how the instrument works. If I read correctly, the range will be expanded to 1-50GHz. New correlators are being built to support it and the old waveguides from the antenna positions will be replaced with fiber optic to support 120GB/s data rate from each dish. Unfortunately we were not allowed anywhere but the foot path out to one dish, and inside the welcome center. It was still well worth it to see this magnificent instrument.

On the way to Albuquerque, we stopped at a rock store along the road. The Geiger revealed a few interesting specimens and they were not costly. The bright yellow stuff on the lime-seeming rock shown proved to be powerful in gamma as well as alpha. I don't know what it is.

Today in Albuquerque, Jacob was puking up burger bits and otherwise hogging the restroom all day from eating a poisoned burger from Bob's Burgers Bob's Burgers, 305 Eubank Boulevard Northeast, Albuquerque, NM and did not get to go with me to the surplus establishments.

The first place was Jones Surplus Barn Inc
10921 Central Avenue Northeast
Albuquerque, NM 87123-2729
(505) 298-9295
This is an Army Store with bonus electronics items such as RT-68 items, some piece parts like switches, etc, . There are also a few hundred books, mostly eclectically related to military/politics/cold war, etc of the 50's-70's. There is a set of books there, something like "the 60's day by day" that tells what happened during the 60's. I am sure that would be useful for those that lived through it and now cannot remember it.

Items that interested me:
An aircraft application vane-axial fan for 400Hz , of about 12" diameter. It is sternly warned on the side of the unit that it is not to be used below 40,000 FT.  It was $59.95, and had been obviously sitting in the bin for a decade. The fan blade assy is slightly bent (1mm or so) so you would not want to run it near full speed. I think at a lower speed (reduced Hz and voltage) it would be excellent and very interesting as a ventialtion fan. I pointed out it was bent, and tried to negotiate, they would have none of it. So I suppose it will be there for the forseeable future, as who would pay so much for a high speed fan with a bent hub?

There was also a big handheld light for signaling aircraft. About 10" diameter, two handed operation, twisting the front handle changes the light from red-white-green. 6-volt 50 watt lamp. This had some dents and two small holes poked in the case, and they wanted $45 which I thought was too much for it considering the problems, so I left it with a little regret.

The item I bought was a military transport case having 19" rack rails mounted inside. This was $65.



The next place was Surplus City
10805 Central Avenue Northeast
Albuquerque, NM 87123-2727
(505) 292-7131
If you like electronics or chemistry this is the best place in Albuquerque. I found switches, vacuum tubes (304TL,HY-5430, 7213, VA-162, and a NL-1052A ignitron, etc), PRX CM300HA-24H brick transistors, small relays to large contactors, rackmounted TEK 485 scopes, "large" heatsinks, breakers all sizes, toroid coils, 4000 series ICs and old USA-made transistors, HP/TEK plugins, power resistors, oil diffusion pumps, Photomultipliers, a Rexon Scintilator  with a CaF XTAL and Hamamatsu R1307 PMT, roughing pumps, 10 racks with "Sandia Labs" logo, all full w/ power supplies and static freq. converters, 5" square 2-wire klaxons for 6VDC and 12VAC, 10-50A "variacs", a 12" dia. 500 Ohm 1.25A dual rheostat (actually a power potentiometer) raw speakers in 2-3" round and 4-5" square, "Plastic Capacitors" 3-15KV for $5-10, Burroughs 122P224 Nixies were $4, Chemistry glassware and thermal mantles, military 18kBTU a/c units, Miller and Sureweld welders up to 400+ Amps, CO2 laser power supply, a 2.8uF 60KV cap, an X-ray tube and power suply, Dewars, and all the usual items of electronics. Also, ultrasonic transducers and laser levels. They also have some militay surplus and other clothing, nuts and bolts, etc. Out back there is a huge yard full of junque.

I bought some ultrasonic transducers and photomultipliers.

This will interest geiger counter fans:
I almost bought the scintillator, but went to the hotel and called the manufacturer about it first. It was then I found out it is sensitive only to the 17KeV X-rays from plutonium, and would not be useful to me. I was connected to the president of the company who is a physicist and he gave me quite an education. The reason for interest in scintilators is that sometimes radium dials and the like are found, as well as other items. It is a pain to have to sweep everything with a geiger counter. With a scintillator, the sensitivity is much better and counts will accrue 100X or more faster. This means you can be at a greater distance and still discover the material.

If the geiger counter has a sensitivity of 1x, then here are the sensitivities of various scntillation crystals when used with photomultiplier tubes:

100x NaI(Tl) Sodium iodide activated with thallium
125X CsI Cesium iodide
200X BGO Bismuth germanate

the above technology are way more costly than a geiger counter unless found surplus.

The last place was Kaufman's West Army & Navy Gds
1660 Eubank Boulevard Northeast
Albuquerque, NM 87112-4115
(505) 293-3229
This is a regular army store plus a police goods store. The vast majority of the goods are new. The optics are mainly Leupold with prices to match.

Anyway, Jacob finally ate some food and we are going to try to make Los Alamos later this evening.

[WA1GFZ]

I think the Nuke Museum is around there somewhere. That would be worth checking out.

[KB2WIG]

FYI

"
Initial signs and symptoms
The initial signs and symptoms of treatable radiation sickness are usually nausea and vomiting. The amount of time between exposure and when these symptoms develop is an indicator of how much radiation a person has absorbed.

After the first round of signs and symptoms, a person with radiation sickness may have a brief period with no apparent illness, followed by the onset of new, more serious symptoms.

In general, the greater your radiation exposure, the more rapid and more severe your symptoms will be.    "





klc

[Opcom]

Form the rocks, I doubt it. The illness was almost exactly 12 hours after the burger and 16 hours after the rocks. The amount should not have caused illness. 0.5 mR/Hr for 1 hour. Illness by the book ought to require much more exposure.

Today, the black hole.. many fine objects.

Can anyone ID the forlorn remains in the first picture?  Say it isn't so!!

Last pic is the 43uF 12KV capacitor that started all of this. Many thanks to Jim Sturrock for the cap and John, here from the board, for this great cap.

[Opcom]

108 pictures from the Black Hole.

http://www.bunkerofdoom.com/travel/blackhole/

The owner, Ed, was kind enough to let me take pictures.

Tomorrow, we will return and make our pile and purchases.

[Ed/KB1HYS]

Good thing that place is so far away... 

I would be spending time and money there I don't have!

[Opcom]

June 4, got there at 10AM, stayed til 5PM, then got dinner at the BBQ place a block away, then drove home to Dallas. That is one long drive and we got in at 8 AM. I still have not gone to bed. Strangely I was tired during ther night drive and this morning of June 5, but now I am not tired. perhaps about 11PM I will be. I have missed the negative half cycle but the flywheel seems to be carrying me through.

I can post pics of what I bought later but aside from some unique radiological items, the main score was a Thordarson T21P82 plate xfmr and some remains (8uF/5KV caps, 575A rectifier shelf, fil xfmrs, hash chokes) from that BTA-5G carcass.
The B+ filter choke is still in the Hole, 3H/3.5A/7500V/6.75 DCR- -that is the smoothing choke, right? I'd have taken it on principle but to be very honest I have no need for it so I left it for someone else who may truly need it.

Mostly happy to be home.


BTW -- Electronic Surplus Co. run by "Skeeter" does not exist as a storefront any more. He moved all his stuff home? and sells on ebay only now. Just as well he still has a lot of good stuff. Trying to remember the seller name !?!

[Superhet66]

Glad it worked out well man.
I like the shunt on the family sized cereal box cap.
I could see someone flashing that up to potential on the shelf, Scary.
                          D.

[John K5PRO]

Glad you made it out alive. Sorry i wasn't able to meet with you in New Mexico, but I was in Japan week before and then had a lot of catch up to do at work, with the 3 MW RF amplifier coming along nicely. I hope to light it up next month, if everything comes together as planned here at Tech Area 53.

Some comments on your NM discoveries:
Yes, Don is correct about the H&K Gammatron, they were trying to avoid patent infringement. Goddard was much better in rocketry than vacuum tubes, but he did make his mark there. I'm happy you found the Roswell museum, its realistic, compared to the UFO museum(s).

Thanks for the tip about Bobs burgers, will avoid that joint. Next time go to Mr. Powderells BBQ, just a few blocks up Central from the surplus stores. He passed on, but they still sell his food and bottled sauce. As for Jones Surplus barn, the old fart there was kind of a jerk to deal with, but maybe he had a good day for you. Surplus city is definitely a winner, although also quirky people there.  I bought a 100-1000 MHz log periodic antenna made by American Electronics Lab (now Cobham defense) in the back lot there. Also found a 3 kW RF heater (RF plasma products) out in the lot, but never bought it as it was three phase AC primary. Their capacitors and transformers are in better organization than Black Hole. They have a lot of surplus clothing for sale too, and sleeping bags, etc.

Sorry to see Electronic Surplus closed doors, as Skeeter had a lot of interesting stuff. But he was getting shoplifted all the time, being on Central (old Rt66). When his dad was running it, it was a neat shop to find complete sets of Tek plug-ins for instance. Tubes, power transformers on shelves. But skeeter let it get out of control and it was impossible to walk through there without stumbling. So he is now EBAY only, and still has a warehouse of stuff somewhere (i heard Edgewood, NM). I see him at hamfests. He used to have a lot of transmitters in the back lot, all rusty, Motorola repeaters, TV station racks, and even a Collins aircraft base station, big rack with all sorts of goodies. He sold that online I believe, before I could buy it for the parts.

Finally, for the scintillators, I have a NaI type in a glass holder, I should find a PMT for it. The yellow mineralization might be Uranophane, Tyuyamunite, or some Vanadium-bearing deposit even. I have found all three in NM in various geological contexts. I got a chunk from a flourite mine tailing I found, and there was a canary yellow tiny spot on one side. When I took a GM counter and checked, it was quite hot at that mineral. I have it in a steel can in my shed now, waiting for decay....

[Jim, W5JO]

I am not sure Jacob had food poisoning.  My wife and I traveled last week to the panhandle of Texas and had the same thing.  We thought we had food poisoning but it turned out to be a virus going around,  I had to take her to the ER and they checked for the virus and confirmed markers in her blood.  She is still feeling the effects and we have been home since last Friday.  She developed the symptoms last Wednesday about 3 PM.

The doctor confirmed he had seen many cases and it looks and acts like food poisoning but isn't.  So watch touching your face with your hands and hope whoever prepares and serves your food isn't infected.

[Opcom]

Thanks for the info on the virus as a possibility.

Finally I posted all of the pictures of all the things on the trip.
http://www.bunkerofdoom.com/travel/nm2010/index.html

The stuff from Goddard's lab and the VLA images (better size and more of them) may be of interest. All the time I was looking for old radio gear on the trip, there just was not much of it except the RT68 stuff at Jones Surplus Barn in Albuquerque, but after being quoted $59 there for a broken fan I didn't bother to ask the price. BTW they want to sell the business and property according to the XYL. The OM is not doing well.

I'm glad I made it back also. We are considering a trip back there with some other freinds, actually Jacob has to, as he put money down on two klystron power supply racks. He wants to go in August, I think that is nuts. It's going to be 110 degrees!

[Jim, W5JO]

There is a place in Las Cruces that has loads of surplus but it is mostly scientific and computer now.  The stock kind of reminds me of Surplus City, which was a primo place 20 years ago.  I didn't bother to tell you about the LC place because it is not all that good.

The nice thing about NM is that you can drive any road and find a senic picture to compose and after you take it, you turn around and you have had your back to another.  The entire state is like a post card.  If I had relatives or someone I could count on as I age, I would want back in Southern NM.  That is the best mexican food on the planet.

Glad you had a good time.

[Opcom]

I could live there, as long as within 50 miles of the black hole.. Seems like a tower would be no problem. Underground house would keep cool.

I sent e-mail to the museum where the Gammatron discrepancy is. Hope they can find a hi-rez copy of that ad.