Chalk one up for the good guys

[KA2QFX]

I wasn't sure but assumed the thread was about the failed bombing.  And Tom, I agree about the Zulu-esque tactics. I've always thought that these most inept attempts were a way of sending in the B team as sacrificial lambs, serving two purposes; cleaning up their ranks of misfits and exercising our defenses.

Just a note here: This jihadi was student at UB when my wife and I were there. I can tell you there are thousands like him in this country. Quiet, unassuming students being good little scholars. After graduation (in IT)  he got an H1B visa (meaning he got sponsored for employment by a company who "proved" no American could be found to fill the job), got his green card and became a naturalized US citizen.  And then he decided to blow away everything he'd worked for all those years, along with a few infidels.  This is quite an enemy. Wasn't it bin Laden who said "The Great Satan has technology on their side, but we have time".   Thank God we are vigilant for THIS war may last a thousand years unless we decide to get real, real nasty... and that's unlikely.

God Bless America.

[WA1GFZ]

Mark,
You have to wonder how many wake up and smell the BS and actually become good Americans. They all can't be that stupid.

[KA2QFX]

Frank,
I believe it to be to the contrary.  Most of those who become the stuff of headlines begin their young lives as moderate Muslims. I think once they are away from their families, in a strange environment, they get recruited slowly into these fundamentalist cells. The means and methodology are very much the same as for most cults, which has been pretty well described in recent years.  It takes a certain kind of individual to be susceptible to such techniques and this is not lost on our adversary.

It is interesting that in almost all these cases people who knew the assailant, often well, "Had know idea..." Scary.
There are thousands out there, and the DOHS knows this too. I do not believe they have much to work with given the sentiment of Congress, legal restrictions, etc.  I'm not criticizing, it's just the nature of our society.  That may change if we our noses well bloodied once or twice more. 

I also believe they have smart people in their ranks, have money and access to materiel.  WTC was the warm-up act for recruiting purposes. To think any less would be folly indeed.

Just my opinion.

[k4kyv]

If you don't understand what a post is about, maybe you shouldn't reply to it?

Don't feel bad, it happens to me all the time in the Technical forum!! 

Don't discount the distractions, like major flooding disasters, power outages, internet down, radio and TV services down or else devoting 100% of their coverage to the local emergency situation, plus the fact that the oil spill in the Gulf has been grabbing a lot of media attention the past few days.

[KM1H]

I know many Muslims as this area has had them for generations. Syrians, Lebanese, Turks, Iranians and now many Palestinians. Hardworking entrepeneurs seems to be the jobs of choice. The mosques are models of moderate thinking and many individuals are secular, turned off by the extremism and just wanting to raise their families.

The problems come from the colleges but even in uber liberal Cambridge, MA they get very little traction.

Carl
KM1H

[k4kyv]

I am not fearful of Muslims.  My gastrointerologist is a Muslim whose family comes from Bangladesh, and I let him probe around inside my guts every few years. My wife used to work for him.  Very professional, and a super nice guy.

The lunatic fringe has given Christianity a bad name as well.

No intent to divert this discussion to religion, but I made an observation in 2001 that the combined events of 11 September and the priestly sex abuse cases would conspire to give organised religion a black eye from which it may never recover.

[WD8BIL]

Well Don, the Dark Ages didn't do much for organized religion either. But eventually more level heads prevailed for a while.

[KA2QFX]

You're right Don! The lunatic fringe of ANY flavor can twist any dogma to serve evil. Thank God they're just fringe.  I'm not anti-Muslim by any stretch but let's face it, it's certainly their turn to be suspect given the actions of their recently active "fringe". 

[W1UJR]

Judge by results. What nations have produced the highest levels of science, medicine and standards of living?
What nations/faiths have produced this from within, not from petro dollars?
There lies your answer.

[W1RKW]

Faizal or maybe he should be nick named Fizzle was not an outstanding student according to the news today. C's and D's in most subjects with a B average in accounting.

[W1UJR]

Faizal or maybe he should be nick named Fizzle was not an outstanding student according to the news today. C's and D's in most subjects with a B average in accounting.

Just a guideline, folks who blow themselves up are not generally highly functioning and productive members of society.  

[W3SLK]

Awww come on now! The poor lad's mortgage got foreclosed! That's what did it to him. Our ugly US economy!

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Not likely. Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and will continue to be in our lifetimes.

Even if the problem comes fromt fringe, when the religion has a billion or so followers (around 1/5 the world's population), the fringe represents a very large number.

The lunatic fringe has given Christianity a bad name as well.

No intent to divert this discussion to religion, but I made an observation in 2001 that the combined events of 11 September and the priestly sex abuse cases would conspire to give organised religion a black eye from which it may never recover.

[k4kyv]

Faizal or maybe he should be nick named Fizzle was not an outstanding student according to the news today. C's and D's in most subjects with a B average in accounting.

Just a guideline, folks who blow themselves up are not generally highly functioning and productive members of society.  

Faisal did not try to blow himself up.  He got on a plane headed to Dubai. If he had not been apprehended moments before the plane took off, he would have made it safely out of the country. Maybe he was a little smarter than the guy from Nigeria and the shoe-bomber.  If I decided I wanted to produce an impact by blowing something up or killing a bunch of people, I would certainly want to still be around to see the results of my efforts.

Assess by results. What nations have produced the highest levels of science, medicine and standards of living?
What nations/faiths have produced this from within, not from petro dollars?
There lies your answer.

But are we still producing the highest  levels of science, medicine and standards of living? Our educational system has become very good at producing lawyers, but many of our best scientists, engineers and doctors are now coming here from places like India and other "developing" nations, including Islamic ones.  US students have fallen behind their peers in numerous other countries regarding proficiency in the sciences and maths. Our standard of living and national health are going down.  It has been said that to-day's youth may be the first generation to be financially worse off as adults than their parents, and to have a shorter average life span than  their parents.

And the answer is not throwing more money at public education, adding more weeks to the school year and making the school day longer, in other words, just increasing the quantity of the same old same-old.  When we were near the top of the world in science, engineering and productivity, our school years and days were shorter than they are now, and we certainly spent less money on education.

The problem lies in the direction evolution of our society has taken.  Look at the anti-intellectual and anti-science attitudes that prevail widely within the ranks of the Amurrkan public to-day.  All the educational strategies in the world will be ineffective with kids if something fundamental is lacking on the home front. Education is all about attitude.

[WA1GFZ]

There was a day when an engineer made almost as much as a doctor. Now the bean counter and insurance co make the money.
Trickle down
Just like when we had silver money and everyone owned a file

[ka3zlr]

War..? more like Police action.

Russia gave up an left we'll see in time.

And I remember very clearly someone saying "Vietnam was a different kind of War"

[W1UJR]

Don,
I agree with all of your points, esp. on the education angle.
It is truly a societal thing, not a money issue, not a educator issue.
American society has broken down, in a big way.

Not quite as spoiled as some in the EU, but darn we're close.
Borrow, borrow, borrow, sheepeople want the "good life" now.
Have kids out of wedlock, let other people foot the bill.
Sit home in front of the TV and again let others foot the bill.
Let other people pay for your education because you are "entitled".
Buy lots of plastic crap from China at Wal-Mart, throw it
away because you can't repair it anymore, cheaper to replace (there goes jobs for the cobbler, TV repair guy, seamstress, etc. Also kills downtown Main Street merchants in the same process.)
People want "easy" answers to hard problems, soundbites rather than real answers which require work and sacrifice.
Finally, people look toward Washington for help, rather than seeking their own solutions - prime example were the subprime mortgage meltdown, Wall Street scandals, I saw let them burn, let them stew.
Government has NO money of its own, only what it has taken from those who work for a living.

It's no secret, America has lost its way, morally and spiritually.
We have booted God out of public life and government, and like a gentleman He has gone away, and withdrawn His blessings.
Founding Father John Adams wrote: “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
The income pyramid is about to flip, and when that happens better have your beans, Bibles and bullets stocked and close at hand.
As a nation, we're already at "Dependance" on the Tyler cycle, many of those who are recipients of public largess have been in mental and spiritual "Bondage" stage for decades.




If things get much worse, I'm going to go join the Amish...seriously.
Somehow I suspect they will survive the financial meltdown...

[WA1GFZ]

Bruce,
you need to add the notch when taxes get too high. These clowns in government keep spending and use the bill balance as an excuse to raise taxes.
I got into it big time with our local rep. Her family owns a big farm in town. Their product cancer leaves. I asked her to raise taxes on her cancer farm and leave the rest of alone.
I suggested when they drive all the big employeers out of the state we could  harvest for $8 an hour.
Man she was pissed off at me.

[ka3zlr]

Let it get worse.....who's letting this happen who stands to gain in this fiasco.

Maybe Amerika could learn a little if they read a little about John Law an France.

Then maybe Amerikans would understand the real underlying problem in finance.

The money is not yours but the debt is imagine that.

We're playing in a Debtors Warehouse.

73

Jack.

[WA1GFZ]

funny how that works Jack.
Beach QTH town can't spend money without a town vote.
We voted down a $90M office building we didn't need last year.
They wanted to fill it with high paid welfare execs to manage the town.
Present qth town spends money and we get the bill

[Ed W1XAW]

If things get much worse, I'm going to go join the Amish...seriously.

You might have to work on your pacifism first.   

[ka3zlr]

The Amish aren't totally off the grid though they think they are. I personally
watched a young group of men that travel around the Tri-State area and
build things for folks for a price...My neighbor that owns the Farm my house
is on had them put together a 4 wheeled hay wagon right in front of our eyes.

They went to the woods picked out what they needed for lumber my neighbor
pulled everything back to his back yard they produced a portable saw mill cut
the lumber my neighbor supplied the 4 wheeled frame and they assembled the
hay wagon very smartly....very nice group of young people

But they hustle for what they need.

73

Jack.