heater for the shack recommendations

[W3SLK]

Dave said:

I believe that all electric resistance heaters are equally efficient due to conservation of energy laws of physics.

If they draw 1000W from the electric circuit they will generate 1000W worth of heat.

Thank you for stating something so obvious yet so over looked! Watts is watts and BTU's is BTU's. I guess there has been so much advertising with these Edenpure® style heaters that it is the big hype.
Now people, and some on here, have been quick to point out the fire hazards associated with a the propane style heaters. Truth be told that ELECTRIC heaters are responsible for more fire damage then the propane style! So think twice.
Tim, I used to go to my outside shack and light off my RCA about 2.5 hours before I would go on the air. The temp was about 35ºF when I would turn it on. By the time I was ready to operate, it had risen to a balmy 55ºF. Usually after a long night, the jacket would be off and the temp was a steamy 72ºF. Caused by all the hot air I was expelling. 

[W1UJR]

Dave said:

I believe that all electric resistance heaters are equally efficient due to conservation of energy laws of physics.

If they draw 1000W from the electric circuit they will generate 1000W worth of heat.

Thank you for stating something so obvious yet so over looked! Watts is watts and BTU's is BTU's. I guess there has been so much advertising with these Edenpure® style heaters that it is the big hype.

AMEN!
Power is never destroyed or created, just just changes from form to form.
You can't pull it out of thin air.

Check out this Edenpure video where the guys to heat the entire house for $84 per month with one little heater.
Then he states that the home's heating system to be working as well, but is set at 50 degrees.
Crazy.
Make up a cool name for a product, spin a good tale and its like winning the lottery.
I love capitalism!

[K1JJ]

But the Amish have come up with a genuine wood vineer mantle using a revolutionary Chinese heating element. The country roadways are jammed with wagons bringing them to market. At only $475 per 1500W electric heater, how can you go wrong? Sorry to say there's a strict limit of only two per family... sigh. Act now.

T

ummmm... Does the thing just above the heater look a little like it caught on fire at one time? (Just below the UL listing of all things.)


BTW, who does this guy's hair?  The barber of Whoville?

[W3SLK]

Tom said:

But the Amish have come up with a genuine wood vineer mantle using a revolutionary Chinese heating element. The country roadways are jammed with wagons bringing them to market. At only $475 per 1500W electric heater, how can you go wrong? Sorry to say there's a strict limit of only two per family... sigh. Act now.

Is Mr. Vu getting a cut on that action? I'll have to talk to my Amish insider Melvin Stoltzfus

[W1RKW]

No matter how you slice it a 1500w heater will not produce any more BTUs than a bit over 5000.

I was thinking about purchasing and having Jared/W1ATR put one of these on the oil burner last year but chickened out.   http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200331508_200331508

My basement (shack) gets cold during the winter. It's insulated but not heated. Right now it's 57 degrees.  I use a Pelonis cube type ceramic heater to take the chill off in the basement shack along with the tube rigs to generate the supplemental heat which gets quite comfortable after about one hour or so. The shack area is sectioned off to reduce the heating area using homebrewed partitions out of foam insulation board. It works quite nice. And once the temp comes up the heater can be turned off and the rigs keep the area comfortable.  Also, doubled the glass on the basement windows. They are now air tight.

Also use a ceramic heater in the garage to help keep the master bedroom floor (above) comfortable. The garage is insulated as well as the two doors. It's kept at 55 degrees. And rather than use the temp controls built into that heater, I modified a cheap thermostat temp scale which then drives a 12v relay to cycle the heater on and off. Mounted the thermostat up high so it controls the temp near the garage ceiling instead of the floor where its cold.  It provides much better control.

In the end the electric bill does go up.  It's about 220 a month during the winter but worth it. My knees are much happier since I spend a lot of time in both areas.

[KC4VWU]

If the chicks are included with the heater, I'll take TWO!

P.S.  Don't mention it to the XYL!

Phil

[N3DRB The Derb]

I'm sure glad she got that heater home when she did - temps are 15 outside this morning. Freezing is not good for tubes or transformers. 

[WU2D]

This cold weather literally drives may hams out of their shack area. Mark WA1QHQ, for instance, is shut down because he shivers so much he can not solder and his beer keeps freezing up after the first swig. 

I am fortunate that my basement shack stays pretty cool in the summer (although it gets humid) and warm in the winter. But the clincher is baseboard forced hot water on a separate circuit that the previous owner put in. Nice to have the oil heat and three zones in the house.

Mike WU2D

[flintstone mop]

Yup I give the beast in the garage some heat from one of those torpedo heaters. Fast quick temporary heater.

Fred

[KE6DF]

Are temps in the 45 degrees to 90 degrees range a problem for old tubes?

I have some stored in the garage, and that's about the max range here in central California inside the garage.

Conditions are usually dry with rare fog, but never any condensation inside the garage.

I have transformers stored there also.

[N3DRB The Derb]

i dont think so, but I know I dont want my tubes to freeze. 

[WA3VJB]

... and his beer keeps freezing up after the first swig. 

Mike that's a terrible tragedy.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

I believe that all electric resistance heaters are equally efficient due to conservation of energy laws of physics.

If they draw 1000W from the electric circuit they will generate 1000W worth of heat.

If this is true, how is it that I can see the elements glowing?

[KE6DF]

Light turns to heat. It's absorbed by every thing it hits -- the walls, by you, by your eyes, by the furniture in the room.

I suppose if you shine a beam of light out a window, then the energy in the beam would not turn into heat in the room.

That would be similar to the case where a transmitter was radiating energy out the antenna.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

That is true, but are you saying visible light produces the same amount of heat (BTU) as the the infrared radiation from the elements (given the same amount of radiation)? Or asked differently, does visible light (radiation) convert to heat at the same ratio as infrared radiation (BTU per photon or whatever)?

Light turns to heat. It's absorbed by every thing it hits -- the walls, by you, by your eyes, by the furniture in the room.

I suppose if you shine a beam of light out a window, then the energy in the beam would not turn into heat in the room.

That would be similar to the case where a transmitter was radiating energy out the antenna.

[KE6DF]

Yes, assuming the light doesn't go out through the window, then yes.

One watt-hour of visible light ends up heating the room the same amount as one watt-hour of IR.

The same would be true of other kinds of radiation like radio waves, except they DO get out of the room through the walls so some of the radiation "gets away" and doesn't heat the room.

Incandescent bulbs are very inefficient, so most of the energy drawn from the wall socket turns into heat and is never radiated as light.

Fluorescents are better, and LEDs are better yet.

But in the end, they all heat the room.

[WA1GFZ]

a cheap electric heater:
I put electric heat in GFZ south for about $500 to heat 6 rooms.
Go to home cheapo and buy electric baseboards and a thermostat.
You can run them on 120 volts but the wattage of each element will be 1/4.
They will run cooler at a lower voltage. An 8 foot baseboard will generate 2000 watts of load and over 6000 BTU at 240 volts. I think they run about $60 and a thermostat around $25.
A friend installed a vented kerosene heater in his garage but that fuel is  pretty high these days. I saw a price of $4.59 a gallon last week.
Maybe if Mark fired up his T368 he would be warmer in the shack.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Yes, out the window or just not absorbed or absorbed as quickly. Wouldn't most visible light be reflected in a room, while most thermal radiation would be absorbed - making the heat rise greater for a given amount of thermal radiation? And for humans, wouldn't our bodies, being mostly water, absorb radiation in the infrared range better than in the visible range? 

My brain is starting to hurt.

Yes, assuming the light doesn't go out through the window, then yes.

One watt-hour of visible light ends up heating the room the same amount as one watt-hour of IR.

The same would be true of other kinds of radiation like radio waves, except they DO get out of the room through the walls so some of the radiation "gets away" and doesn't heat the room.

Incandescent bulbs are very inefficient, so most of the energy drawn from the wall socket turns into heat and is never radiated as light.

Fluorescents are better, and LEDs are better yet.

But in the end, they all heat the room.

[KE6DF]

Well it's true that visible light would be reflected from a light colored wall.

But, reflection isn't 100% efficient.

So lets say, 90% of the energy in a beam of light was reflected. 10% was absorbed and turned into heat.

So what happens to the reflected light?

It hit another wall, and again loses 10% of it's remaining energy. And then reflected another and another time over and over until the energy is all absorbed and converted to heat.

So, since the light is travelling at the speed of light, it's bounces many times and all the energy is turned to heat in a small fraction of a second.

[KB2WIG]

A much warmer method o heat.

klc

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Great explanation. TNX!

Well it's true that visible light would be reflected from a light colored wall.

But, reflection isn't 100% efficient.

So lets say, 90% of the energy in a beam of light was reflected. 10% was absorbed and turned into heat.

So what happens to the reflected light?

It hit another wall, and again loses 10% of it's remaining energy. And then reflected another and another time over and over until the energy is all absorbed and converted to heat.

So, since the light is travelling at the speed of light, it's bounces many times and all the energy is turned to heat in a small fraction of a second.

[W3GMS]

Derb,
Try to make the space your in well insulated. You can get some 2X4's and some R-11 for the walls and R-19 (minimum) for the ceiling and it won't cost you much money.   That will go a long way in keeping your heating cost low.  If your shack is in a garage and your not going to use it as a garage get rid of the door and frame it out and insulate it accordingly.  If your zoning views it differently for tax purposes then build a wall directly behind the garage door and you will be all set.  If your not up to doing the work yourself have some of your close neighbors give you a hand.  its not a big job.   
Joe, W3GMS 

[flintstone mop]

The Edenpure is definitely pure B$.
More complaints than praises about this wonderful heater.

Fred

[WA1GFZ]

Derb,
You could put foam panels against the door so the garage is still usable in the future. Foil covered polyisocyanurate is very good a couple 2 inch panels against the door would provide good insulation that you could take down in warmer wx. I prefer 3X Joe's R values.

[Ed/KB1HYS]

A much warmer method o heat.

klc

Give a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day.

Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life...