On 1885 Tonight

[W3SLK]

Don and Rob, I heard you fellers last night but I didn't stick around. I heard the dead-air group attempting to put a kybosh on you without success. Then there was the bonesauce with the electronic keyer who was so zero beat (and dead beat), that he didn't even emit a tone when he was keying. 

[K5UJ]

Don and Rob, I heard you fellers last night but I didn't stick around. I heard the dead-air group attempting to put a kybosh on you without success. Then there was the bonesauce with the electronic keyer who was so zero beat (and dead beat), that he didn't even emit a tone when he was keying. 

Mike, don strapped them so much here that I was mostly unaware of them.  I fact I could run the audio feed to a speaker with the main rx on 20 KHz passband and the sub rx narrow and get Don dominating the wide passband.  By around 9 p.m. local, the band was starting to lenghthen out so things were getting a bit QSBish but the ghost group didn't have a chance.  I didn't even know about the cw guy.   the sync. detector at Don's end helped him copying me.  It was one of those times I wish I had been running a Gates rig or T368.

Rob

[ve6pg]

..bill...herd you calling cq, on 1885@8pm est, sunday nite...i called, but someone else had called you, and carried-on...i fired up on 1880, and werked kc4mop, kd8cvy...gud condx on sunday nite...

..sk..

[k4kyv]

I was out of the house yesterday (Sunday) evening.  Returned home about 8 PM and listened on the band.  Those same slopbuckets were well established on 1888, with a large group from 9- and 4-land.  I listened to them for a few minutes, and it sounds like they have chosen 1888 to be their regular squatting frequency and are making plans to meet there every night. They are aware of the nearby AM activity; I heard one mention that AM'ers have been using 1885 for decades. The main instigators appear to be from the Indianapolis area.

If we don't maintain more AM presence on '85 on a regular basis with some strapping signals into the midwest, I'm afraid this is about to go the way 3878 did 10-15 years ago with the Wally and Richard crowd. From what I have heard the past few nights, the frequency needs to be firmly in AM hands by 6 PM CST /7 PM EST / 0000 GMT.

Recently, I have been working up a little higher, about 1886-1887 to maintain wider separation from the nightly AM QSO on 1880, but I am aware that some of the 1885 regulars are rock-bound.

Use it or lose it!

[W3SLK]

Generally the OH AMers, Ken K8TV, Jim N8ULN, etal used to establish operations at 1888 early in the evening. They would be off by about 8PM. When I was on 1885 the other night, I heard some 'donald duck' but the station I was on with came over top of it. I don't pay them no mind. If they bitch about me, let em whine. I'll just offer them a little bit cheese. 

[Bill, KD0HG]

OK Don.

Ready to strap this evening?

[K9ACT]

Recently, I have been working up a little higher, about 1886-1887 to maintain wider separation from the nightly AM QSO on 1880, but I am aware that some of the 1885 regulars are rock-bound.

Use it or lose it!

A better alternative may be to build or buy a VFO and move.  Being rock bound is a very lame excuse for tolerating or causing QRM.

Whatever their reason for squatting on 88, their intention is obvious and we can not win that war.  SSB is popular because it is loud.  Sound clips from icons aside, buckets can always be   heard over, under or around AMers.  They can not be driven away if they can hear each other.

AM can be pulled out with brick wall filters and listening to the USB but they seem to know this and have chosen 88 to make 85 unusable.

I just do not understand this parking on a frequency mentality.  On 75 it is almost officially understood that 3885 is the AM calling freq and you can bitch at buckets with some small feeling of justice.

On 160, this is not the case and it is a free for all  but with the additional advantage that we can go anywhere with AM... the whole bloody band.

The neighborhood of 1870 and down is much more friendly but I can call CQ endlessly and none of the parkers think to tune around.  The only people I talk to down there are friends who know I do this or the occasional bucket who doesn't know what AM is.

My suggestion is: Use it... All of it!

js

[KL7OF]

Come on up to 1945 (pacific NW) or 1925 (Calif)    Not too much interference...Evenings around 7-8 PM West coast time....

[k4kyv]

OK Don.

Ready to strap this evening?

I'll be there.  The only problem is we usually eat dinner here starting some time between 7 and 8:30 PM, so don't expect me to be able hold the fort all alone for  the entire evening.

Whatever their reason for squatting on 88, their intention is obvious and we can not win that war.  SSB is popular because it is loud.  Sound clips from icons aside, buckets can always be heard over, under or around AMers.  They can not be driven away if they can hear each other.

AM can be pulled out with brick wall filters and listening to the USB but they seem to know this and have chosen 88 to make 85 unusable.

I just do not understand this parking on a frequency mentality.  On 75 it is almost officially understood that 3885 is the AM calling freq and you can bitch at buckets with some small feeling of justice.

On 160, this is not the case and it is a free for all  but with the additional advantage that we can go anywhere with AM... the whole bloody band.

My suggestion is: Use it... All of it!

I don't have any problem with a SSB group starting up on 1885 or any other "AM frequency" for that matter, if no-one is using it when they first convene.  They were there first, they beat us to the draw, so I won't intentionally try to QRM them. But it is another matter when we have already well established an AM QSO sometimes for an hour or more, and a bunch of jerks fire up right on frequency or perhaps 2 kHz away with the expressed intent of driving us away, then proceed to gripe, piss and moan about all the QRM from the AM.  If I can still hear the other station and he can hear me, I won't tuck my tail and run, come hell or high water. I won't even acknowledge over the air the existence of the QRM.

Usually it is one or two ringleaders who initiate these tactics, and after they have successfully driven the AM'ers away, their pissweak buddies, the ones who operate 160m with the 80m dipole feeders tied together working against a ground rod or water pipe, join the group.  As long as we stand our ground, the big guns might be able to talk to each other, but their buddies won't get through.  A good AM receiver is usually all that is needed.

One of the reasons the Ghetto on 75 has become so chaotic is that too many AM'ers wimped out as soon as slopbuckets deliberately squatted on frequencies near the usual AM operating territory.  First it was 3878, then other slopbucket groups claimed ownership of 3892, 3875 and 3870, and now it is reduced to one or two old buzzard style AM roundtables jammed into a 10 to 12 kHz wide sliver, each with 8 or more stations taking turns making lengthy monologues.  I  can't understand why AM operators are so afraid to operate "outside the window" in the General class sub-subband on 75.

AM-slopbucket battles are most often the result of jerks like these; they are the ones who display the "parking on a frequency" mentality, usually to talk to the same 4 or 5 guys about the same trivia, night after night, on the same frequency.

Jack, I agree that we should be willing to use all the band (on 75 as well as 160), not just one or two frequencies.  To say we have priority over everybody else within some ill-defined "AM window" is to display exactly the same attitude as the dead-air SSB groups.  But OTOH, absolutely the worst thing we could do would be to start avoiding long-used AM frequencies like 1885 and look for another spot to operate just because we are afraid some bunch of bone-heads will show up after a while and run us off.  

Use it or lose it.  Strap softly and turn up the wick!

[Bill, KD0HG]

I'll be there.  The only problem is we usually eat dinner here starting some time between 7 and 8:30 PM, so don't expect me to be able hold the fort all alone for  the entire evening.

The band opens op around 4:30 MT,,6:30 ET here, Don, so I'll light the filaments around 7-8 PM eastern.

[flintstone mop]

Would being in a wideband mode with hi-fi audio discourage bucket interference? Would the splashing audio keep them away?
Or brute force power?

Fred

[k4kyv]

I would say brute force power on your own operating frequency.  No need to trash up the band with extra wide sidebands while others are trying to use the band, for example the AM QSO on 1880.  When the jerks deliberately plop down 2-3 kHz above the AM carrier and operate LSB, the USB of the AM signal overlaps with their entire SSB signal.  They know that.  

No need to widen your sidebands.

 

[K5UJ]

Jack, a couple of points:  I, and maybe others, operate with a feedpoint tuner that, when tuned to a frequency, lets me move 5 to 10 KHz up or down; that's about it.  I can always go out and retune it, but it is a pain to do that at night in the winter.  I freely admit that is my problem--I need to motorize it or tune in the shack (which I hate to do).  Motorizing it is a project for next year. 

More important, to me moving around is letting the tail wag the dog.   Sure, we can go somewhere else, but eventually there will be another problem either with more SSB deliberate QRM or far enough down, complaints from the CW dx chasers.  I do not see why I should frequency hop every time a slopbucket pops up.  I feel like if I got 1880, 85 or 90 first then they have a problem, not me.   Incidentally, they are most likely running one of those panadapter rigs or at least, a plastic radio like mine with a VFO and maybe a s.s. amp.  They can probably QSY much more easily than most AM stations can.

Rob

[KA7WOC]

I've been hearing 1885 activity out here in Puget Sound.  Only a couple of the stations have been strong enough for 100% copy (Don) and my 250 watt xmitter lacks the scrote to make it that far east.  Also heard the 1915 group for the first time this year last night.  When conditions are good I can work the Dakotas.  Like KL7OF said, 'lots of activity over here on 1925 and 1945'.  

woc

[K9ACT]

I do not see why I should frequency hop every time a slopbucket pops up. 

I did not suggest anything like that.  I am simply pointing out that when a couple of morons decide to squat a few KC above your favorite freq, there is little point in calling CQ on your favorite frequency.  If they do it after you have established a QSO than it is simply a matter of whether or not you can continue your QSO under fire.  If so, fine but if not, there is little honor or even fun to be gained slugging it out.

BTW, I should qualify the "morons" use.  They are only such if they do it simply to harass someone else.  If they just happen to be there, the person trying to start a QSO too close to them because it's an "Am freq" is the moron.

js

[k4kyv]

Last evening (Monday PM) I talked a long while with Bill KD0HG.  We were on about 1886.5 to give the QSO on 1880 a little more elbow room.  Then Jack, K9ACT called in.  After Jack and Bill signed out, I got a call from Rex, K4JBJ near Atlanta, whom I had not heard from in a long time.  Like Bill and Jack, he had a very good AM signal.

At 0225 GMT (8:25 pm CST) the jammer came on, with a very loud wide buzzsaw sounding signal that completely obliterated both sidebands of Rex's signal.  Rex was signing out anyway, so I put on a recorded test and let it run for about 5 minutes while I went into the house to check on something.  When I returned, the slopbuckets had started up on 1888, griping bitterly about all the AM QRM from below.  There was still plenty of empty space on the band nearby, but they insisted on starting up 1.5 kHz above the AM carrier, and then proceeded to piss and moan about the QRM.  I stayed on frequency and called CQ, and W0HRO from St. Louis came back.  We continued for quite a while.  The SSB QRM was there but we could still read each other through it, so we didn't QSY.

I didn't get any callsigns of the offending stations, but from listening round on the band after I signed out with Ken, it appears that they are from a slopbucket group that hangs out at 1898 kHz. 

[K5UJ]

I will try to get on there tonight.  I have been working a bit late to get caught up from being off last week.

[Jim, W5JO]

The static will be up tonight.  There is a big storm blowing in over S. W. Texas bringing rain to central Texas and even a snow dusting in Las Cruces, NM and El Paso, TX.  That thing is headed East and the light showers are producing static crashes here at present.

You guys East of us, get ready for a pretty good winter storm.  High today in the South of OK has been in the low 50s, un-characteristic for this time of year.  So 160 is going to be noisy for a couple of days.

[k4kyv]

It won't snow  here.  We have been in a no-snow zone for years.  Thursday night they got several inches in Louisville and Memphis, but it was warm and sunny here and I was able to get some much needed work done outside .  Snow always seems to go a little to the north or to the south of here.  We got only a couple of light dustings last winter.  Years ago, we could expect 3 to 5 good snows of several inches each in a typical winter.  Now, we just get the QRN from other people's winter storms. 

Last year, we got a big ice storm. I'd rather see 10 feet of snow than one inch of ice.  It doesn't take much to damage trees and tear down antennas.  It took me all spring to clean up after the storm.  When it hit, I had to repair my beverage at least 5 times.  Tree limbs kept breaking and falling on it, and finally two big trees.  As soon as I thought all was clear and put away the chain saw, more wood would come tumbling down.

Rob, you ought to do a tutorial to some of the other guys in your area on how to strap on 160 from a postage-stamp size city lot.

I'll try to get on 1885 to-night if the QRN isn't too bad.  My beverage, which is directional to the north, combined with the sync detector should help a lot if the storms are in the southwest.

[k4kyv]

I was on 1885 for a while, and the QRN was intense.  I was still able to read everyone OK, thanks to the beverage/sync detector combination, but my ears felt the punishment.

I checked the frequency later in the evening, and Rob was still in there with some other stations, with about the same receiving conditions.  I didn't hear any jamming or slopbucket interference on the frequency the whole evening.

Despite the claim I heard one of the slopbucketeers say, that the AM interference wasn't bothering anyone, if a little lightning static kept them away, they must have a hell of time coping with the AM signal's USB if they choose to operate that close to the carrier frequency.  Makes it even more obvious what their motives really are.

[K5UJ]

Rob, you ought to do a tutorial to some of the other guys in your area on how to strap on 160 from a postage-stamp size city lot.

Don this made my month; maybe my year but I think 80% of it is your sync. detector and beverage.  Over to the east, I'm much more pw.

Speaking of strapping, even with all the QRN  s9+20 dB here, ur carrier almost entirely blanked it all out. 

I worked N9MS locally later on and told him the lack of QRM due to the noise was kind of like how up here, when it's snowing on a weekend, it can be a good time to drive around because there is so little traffic--most folks stay home so those who do venture out find the streets almost empty.  As I told Fred, it was a night for either big iron or local QSOs.

Yes, I'll take almost anything over wind and ice.  Enough of those two and even a commercial tower will come down.

73
Rob
K5UJ

[k4kyv]

I identified one of the jammers this evening, the one who drops the buzzsaw tone on frequency.  His call is W9BE. He said he didn't hear anyone using the frequency, and that he couldn't be deliberately interfering because he fired up on 1888, 3 kHz away from the AM'ers. He went on to say that he didn't care if his signal was QRM'ing an AM QSO.

[flintstone mop]

I heard them chatting on 1888 and I'm guessing that it's the increasing number of A.M. that's crowding them.
One said that he has an old A.M. unit he uses when the band isn't crowded and he knows of Hams doing the same thing. When the band is busy it's impolite to use A.M. coz it uses so much bandwidth. And the ending comment, before I tuned away was, "what they're doing is legal blah blah blah".

The static was there but not that bad and sigs were pretty strong. I had to show my face to the family. I was busy fixing an in-house wiring problem with the telephone system.

Fred

[Bill, KD0HG]

I identified one of the jammers this evening, the one who drops the buzzsaw tone on frequency.  His call is W9BE. He said he didn't hear anyone using the frequency, and that he couldn't be deliberately interfering because he fired up on 1888, 3 kHz away from the AM'ers. He went on to say that he didn't care if his signal was QRM'ing an AM QSO.

Interference is one thing; it's a way of life on Ham Radio, but you're describing anonymous and deliberate interference.

Some common sense needs to prevail, particularly respecting the fact that there are rock-bound guys on 1885 and 3885, some who have been there for many years. What outcome does anyone with half a brain expect in this case?

[wa2dtw]

160, formerly the "gentleman's band" has become more and more like 75.  What a pity.