What to Do about the AM Station at W1AW

[ka3zlr]

Heck ya Roger,

Nothing elaborate simple Placards would be enough and just say hey sit down and read for your opportunity to operate nothing comes for free in the service an that's that.

I don't think this is going to require much the discussion is Great getting things an ideas aired out, I don't think we need an equipment change yet but the ideas are right on if need be and we have to do something i'm sure we'll get it done one thing about this forum if there's a true need for something it gets done.

But for the most part I feel a simple solution is the best option here how does everybody feel about that...?

73
Jack.







 

[Bill, KD0HG]

I doubt that I (and some of you) could walk into W1AW and operate one of their digital rigs (Packet, Amtor, PSK31, etc) without any prior experience or instruction.

Don't expect any better from a newbie operating a Valiant for the first time. No matter how interested, they're not going to 'get it'.

Ok Bill we got that part but any ideas on making the AM position more operable..?



73
Jack.

Jack, I suppose my point is that you really can't teach someone how to operate and tune a vintage AM rig (including things like how to zero-beat a received signal) in a matter of a few minutes.

We take dipping the plates, peaking the grids, proper loading and drive for granted, but you have to understand what you're doing and the average newbie will never 'get it' from a cheat sheet.

I'd relieve the visitors from that task unless they have experience with boatanchors. Have a League staffer tune the beast up and just let visitors have the fun of operating it.

My point is that tuning up a Valiant or the like is not part of the skill set a newbie ham will have without hands-on help.
It's like driving a stick shift for the first time.

Sorry to say, if no one is available to help, then visitors shouldn't use the thing. It would only be  a bad experience for everyone concerned.

Or...The suggested Class E no-tune rig might be a good idea, just to get on AM, but it's not a historical boatanchor, either.

[ka3zlr]

I understand Bill there should be limits we're just airing ideas to get operation up on that position an make it visible.

This is a tuffy.

73
Jack.

[WBear2GCR]

My view is that the way to go is with a more or less "fixed frequency" operating position using the Valiant into a fixed antenna. The Valiant has two xtal positions, so that would give 3885 and maybe 3880 or some other suitable freq (or an xtal hanging out for that freq to plug in)

The knob positions noted on a laminated graphic on the table itself.

Now all you have to doo izz to skweeze the chrome lollypop and talk! :_)

Advanced ops could use the VFO, of course.
A simple "lock out" method could disable the VFO position (I think) to keep it more or less fool proof.

If it blows up, I guess someun's gunna hafta feeks eet??

KISS method!

 

The WWII vintage KW should be repaired and made available for operation by ops that are experienced and/or checked out.

Pressure from notable hams is a very good idea... and the rest of us too...

                 _-_-bear

[n1ipa]

It is do bad that they don't let it be put on the air,  have to wonder if it even gets turned on to flux the the componets a bit.  As we now all that gears needs to be fired up once in awhile to preserve its componets to some degree. 
But on the other hand, to let someone hear the audio of a good am transmitter that is put on the air compared to the narrow signals that some of the rice boxes put out.  Some of the rice boxes do have some good sounding audio, but to hear the rich sounds of a good tube rig can't be beat.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

It is do bad that they don't let it be put on the air,  have to wonder if it even gets turned on to flux the the componets a bit.  As we now all that gears needs to be fired up once in awhile to preserve its componets to some degree. 
But on the other hand, to let someone hear the audio of a good am transmitter that is put on the air compared to the narrow signals that some of the rice boxes put out.  Some of the rice boxes do have some good sounding audio, but to hear the rich sounds of a good tube rig can't be beat.

Incorrect statement above in bold.

From KA3ZLR post dated September 25, 2009, after a conversation with Joe the Station Manager:
"Now as to what happened, ya know new Hams aren't really qualified to operate that station and Joe's take is to avoid any unnecessary embarrassments operationally or mechanically, so he is very careful as to whom he lets operate the equipment, and his reasoning is the age of the machines. He is very interested in that and so if you don't know what your doing then you can look but not touch. He wants to save them in tack and in shape as long as they last." 

I would hope the station manager would ask questions like:
How do you set the grid drive and in what meter position?
What is the exciter adjustment and in what meter position is that made?
How do you dip the final and in what meter position should you be looking at?
What should maximum plate and grid current be for proper operation?
What's the function of the coarse and fine coupling adjustments on the front panel?
What's is modulator resting current?
What are the functions of the audio and clipper controls?
etc. etc.

[Bill, KD0HG]

OK.

In a perfect world, W1AW would have several "AM Nights" every month.

On those evenings, there would be a volunteer AM Elmer there for a few hours, explaining how and what knobs to turn and why. And to observe and prevent zorches.

Here's an easier one. A challenge to you Valiant jocks.
(That's the rig at W1AW?)

Write a two page (max) how-to tune and operate the thing. Maybe it could be done.

"Switch meter to 'PA Grid'. Adjust the grid tuning and final grid drive up to (?) milliamps as that is the most efficient operating point of the final amplifier."

Don't let the newbie do something real complicated like change bands. Let the League employee or volunteer do that. But let them get a feel for how to check proper tuning.

[Ed/KB1HYS]

Two pages??  I had it all on a  hand written 3x5 card when I first got my valiant. 
Including instructions to Zero beat my own receiver using the BFO after an embarrassing inadvertent Split Operation.  Maybe I'll mail a copy down to HQ and they can tape it up next to the valiant in question.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

W1AW is open to visitors during normal operating hours: from 8 AM until 4 PM ET on Monday through Friday. Licensed amateur radio operators may operate the station from 10 AM to 12 PM and 1 PM to 3:45 PM Monday through Friday. Be sure to bring your current amateur radio license or a photocopy.

[KC4VWU]

You're all missing the point of what is going on. The reason why it is not readily offered is because in our little niche of the hobby, there is not enough sales generated in new equipment. Sure, we buy some accessories and some small parts now and then, but we mostly buy USED. That means for every Heathkit, Johnson, or Collins sitting on ops desks, there is one less new Icom, Kewood, or Yaesu sold. It's all about the money fellas. Are you gonna spend $1K to get your 75A4 in immaculate shape and maybe that much to bring the Viking 500 up to full shine, or are you gonna buy a new 746 Pro? Who is Howard Mills? Now, who is Icom? It's the BIG money game. And you can't tell me the League ain't doin' some handshaking of some sorts with the big boy manufacturers. Ditto for the FCC. 

[ka3zlr]

Good Morning Guys,

Ok Ok now lets not come down on the league we got a problem here let's concentrate on that, Um Ed I think your idea is what we need something very easy to do but would require very little effort an I think it's the answer my take on that is it possible to plasticoat the instructions so they would hold up under handling an maybe have a hole put  in one corner whereby a small chain or cable could be connected and then the instructions could be secured to the desk somehow...

I really think the Instruction Idea is where it's at on this maybe we can work with them up there somehow to get this under control.

Great Discussion


73
Jack.

[WA3VJB]

Jack, thanks for the steady progress as you pursue some ideas.

I'm sorry it feels a little naive to think all it will take is some instructional aids to cure what really seems to be an attitude problem among League people responsible for W1AW, including Joe Carcia.

Thanks to attention drawn to it by Pete, I revisited the W1AW sub-page at:

http://www.arrl.org/news/features/2001/08/07/1/

The AM station does not appear anywhere in this lengthy description.  The page has not been updated for five years.

I realize that the donated AM equipment display does not rise to the level of being a "studio," like several operating positions showcased on that web page.  There are other displays referenced, and the station was supposed to be a working demonstration of vintage radio.

Anyone want to guess why it is not included like it deserves to be ?

As for the amount of effort it allegedly takes to carefully put a Valiant transmitter on the air, please refer to the level of operational detail regarding each of the three "studios." 

The people behind W1AW know exactly how to set these stations up for visitors, including for modes far less popular (and more complicated) than AM.

Notice too, that the description for the bank of Harris commercial transmitter/amplifiers specifically describes their use for CW and SSB. The station trustee, Dave Sumner, has claimed incorrectly that these transmitters are not capable of producing AM.

So, what we have is an utterly complete omission of AM in the description of W1AW, despite the fact there are several AM-capable stations for visitors.

Furthermore, League people use W1AW to contradict the ARRL's published "Considerate Operators Guide" that has long suggested the use of AM on the W1AW bulletin frequency of 7290Kc.

Bruce, Pete, spare me the usual picking-apart of a post like this to try to defend the ARRL. If you want to be helpful, ask your friends in Newington to redress the problem of excluding AM that they carry out, both passively and deliberately.

[W1UJR]

Jack, thanks for the steady progress as you pursue some ideas.
Bruce, Pete, spare me the usual picking-apart of a post like this to try to defend the ARRL. If you want to be helpful, ask your friends in Newington to redress the problem of excluding AM that they carry out, both passively and deliberately.

I can't speak for Pete, but no "picking apart" needed, glad to see that this has taken a positive and progressive slant. Doing is always so much more rewarding than just complaining.

Thanks for rising to the occasion and heading off on a tack which may actually benefit League members, and the vintage radio community at large.

Just a FYI, I have it on good authority that the AM mode buttons do work on all of the modern radios which the League has in the W1AW guest operating studios.  

Paul, since I know that you want to see this work out for the betterment of the vintage radio community, and given your not inconsiderable writing skills, I'm sure that the folks spearheading the effort can count on your assistance, right?

[WA3VJB]

Paul, since I know that you want to see this work out for the betterment of the vintage radio community, and given your not inconsiderable writing skills, I'm sure that the folks spearheading the effort can count on your assistance, right?

Actually, Bruce, are you writing something to submit to the website to help draw attention to the AM capabilities of W1AW, about which you have first-hand experience ?

That's a good start for you to take some direct action in this discussion.

[ka3zlr]

OK, very well Paul, at this point then the group that wants to participate or continue to participate in this need to decide is this a worthy cause or not, if there is so much aggression against AM at that station there I don't know, I know what has been done to date I understand the Bandwidth Issue I think we all do and there are those opposed to QRO AM operation.

But there is a Station there none the less to be operated an time has gone by and some changes are in order, so...  is it us an them or is it gona be us working or attempting to work with them and continue with a plan of action.?? that's all I wana know.

73
Jack.

[WA3VJB]

Jack I've already offered to help sponsor your trip to Newington to carry out the changes that promise the best chance for successful, long-term inclusion of AM at W1AW.

I also am not convinced that it's a matter of instruction, or a lack of "time" that discourages their people from putting our part of the hobby on an equal basis at W1AW.

SO, simply consider this feedback part of an overall analysis of what the League's problem is when it comes to representing AM at W1AW, including in its promotional materials such as the website I've highlighted.

[W1UJR]

Actually, Bruce, are you writing something to submit to the website to help draw attention to the AM capabilities of W1AW, about which you have first-hand experience ?

That's a good start for you to take some direct action in this discussion.

Hi Paul,
As you were the first to draw attention to this matter, and given your expressed outrage and subsequent attention to such, I would have thought that you had already crafted the aforementioned written response.
 
You've indicated in your postings that you have had extensive contact with League officials regarding AM operation, something which I can't hope to match. Therefore if you haven't already done so, I believe that you would be ideally suited to spearhead the written effort.

I'd be happy to edit or review any work that you create.
Once you have it complete, please feel free to direct it to my call sign @arrl.net.

[ka3zlr]

Well I am much obliged Paul but at Present I'm indisposed with this Cancer treatment an am allowed very little travel heck I can't even drive my truck from the wonderful Radiation Treatment I received for the brain cancer and that don't count the 40 lbs lost due to the ecoli attack i endured so we're just bouncing back here my heads a little clearer an my balance is getting better I can finally go down steps one at a time.

But I think overall this will be a small issue with them up there if it's approached right and they see the interest of the AM group in general, I expect a few letters from all of us would help and then approach them with the Instruction sheet idea an somehow we can get a fact finding mission in there and generate a discussion with them.

It's gona take time an some over looking of some issues an press on.

73
Jack.

[W3RSW]

Hi Paul,
As you were the first to draw attention to this matter, and given your expressed outrage and subsequent attention to such, I would have thought that you had already crafted the aforementioned written response.
 
You've indicated in your postings that you have had extensive contact with League officials regarding AM operation, something which I can't hope to match. Therefore if you haven't already done so, I believe that you would be ideally suited to spearhead the written effort.

I'd be happy to edit or review any work that you create.
Once you have it complete, please feel free to direct it to my call sign @arrl.net.

War of the pens! 

How about both writing a joint commuique?
... a convergence of solutions, heh heh.

[Ed/KB1HYS]

back to the original topic, here's a quick and dirty copy out of the operators manual for the valiant.  I can't really see it taking a very slow carefull op more than 3 minutes to do this.  Less if they are starting out on or near a frequency that it was previously tuned to.

Proof read and offer improvements.

[KC4VWU]

I think my statement was misunderstood, or too close to reality to accept. I have no problem with the ARRL. I intended not to offend anyone with my statement; just to give a basis on which to start analyzing the problem.

I live a long way from CT. I have had the pleasure of visiting the state once; beautiful land. Kind of reminded me of some places here in N.C. In my whole 45 years, that is the farthest north I have ever been; probably the furthest I've been period. I would hate to think that if I saved money and actually did have the oppertunity to visit W1AW, I would get to see my favorite part of the hobby "shunned".

I know Amateur Radio is a very complex organization with many facets which one can explore and can personalize as their favorite. It is a big community and we ALL have to work hard to keep it perpetuated no matter what area we prefer to call "home". So by no means do I expect AM BA to be exalted above all else and in the forefront, that would be selfish. Bot the lack thereof, or scarcity, to include MY favorite mode prevents me from supporting such organizations. If it were not for people like John Dilks, Dave Ingram, and a scarce few others, you would not see anything remotely attached to our favorite ops in any of the major printed media. That is why ER gets my subscription money, not CQ or QST (ARRL). Do we need 1/4 content of the publication concerning contesting info EVERY month? Would it hurt to have to have a BA or AM one pager every month  without encrouching ads? I think the following is large enough that we've earned it.

You may earn three figures a year, you may have your name in print, you may be celebrated locally amongst your peers; you have no pull. One person, even a group of people, cannot stand toe to toe with big business. Unless you have a printing press in your front pocket when you go to talk, you will probably get the same promises and side step game. I'm telling you the truth; it's ALL about the money and who can supply the most; that is what gets recognized and put in the forefront.
Phil 

[WA3VJB]

Well I am much obliged Paul but at Present I'm indisposed with this Cancer treatment and am allowed very little travel

Jack, please accept my apologies. I lost track of your circumstances.

My only suggestion is to combine the idea of an instruction guide with other visible signs of AM at W1AW. 

Otherwise the vintage station is doomed to languish, and the other stations capable of wholesome AM may not be considered by visitors.

[W1UJR]

My only suggestion is to combine the idea of an instruction guide with other visible signs of AM at W1AW.  

Otherwise the vintage station is doomed to languish, and the other stations capable of wholesome AM may not be considered by visitors.

Agreed.

One suggestion, local AMers in or near Newington could be there one a semi-regular basis to coach new comers with the gear. This could be publicized via John Dilks column, Electric Radio and other means.

In fact Paul, why not see if a "special event" or to borrow a term you coined back in the 1990s, a "AM Festival Station" could be run from W1AW. You'll recall participating in the Collins KW-1 AM Special Event Station from the Rochester Hamfest, the AM Station at the Dayton Hamvention, and numerous other AM special events in the late 1990s.

Perhaps the fellows could come up with a date of some significance when this could be done.

I have one date suggestion, the Antique Wireless Association does have a AM Contest in February, really more of a social thing, info follows. All AWA contest are open to all, you no longer have to be a member.

Info on the AWA AM event follows:
"February is a 24 hour AM get together on 80, 40, and 20 meters and consists of round tables centered on the AM window in each of these bands. AM rigs of any vintage are welcome.
Both events are very informal and your score is simply a tally of the number of stations worked."

Other dates of significance:
- Classic Exchange Weekends -->> http://www.arrl.org/news/features/2009/01/09/10557/?nc=1
- AMI Discovery Weekend, right around Thanksgiving???
- Electric Radio "Heavy Metal Night"
- Your Suggestions...

[ka3zlr]

Excuse my lateness we had company over,

Not a problem Paul we're getten better the big problem is Balance when they do your head with Radiation there is a chance on some people for issues to come up and I guess I'm one of them but it'll pass...

Now as to yours an Bruce's suggestions that's what we need as a matter of fact I think that will be just fine if it's possible to get a few of those done an gather some hands to get at it I think we got what we need..

I really enjoyed Facilitating this for yunns what little I can do to promote this an keep it in sight at this point if there's any other arguments to present or threats of violence or bank hold ups I think we got it nailed pick some dates up an coming if need be I'm available through the week to make the phone calls to do my part.

It's up to you Gentlemen an ladies of the forum and the AM community Speak up...


73
Jack.

[n1ipa]

It is do bad that they don't let it be put on the air,  have to wonder if it even gets turned on to flux the the componets a bit.  As we now all that gears needs to be fired up once in awhile to preserve its componets to some degree. 
But on the other hand, to let someone hear the audio of a good am transmitter that is put on the air compared to the narrow signals that some of the rice boxes put out.  Some of the rice boxes do have some good sounding audio, but to hear the rich sounds of a good tube rig can't be beat.

Incorrect statement above in bold.

From KA3ZLR post dated September 25, 2009, after a conversation with Joe the Station Manager:
"Now as to what happened, ya know new Hams aren't really qualified to operate that station and Joe's take is to avoid any unnecessary embarrassments operationally or mechanically, so he is very careful as to whom he lets operate the equipment, and his reasoning is the age of the machines. He is very interested in that and so if you don't know what your doing then you can look but not touch. He wants to save them in tack and in shape as long as they last." 

I would hope the station manager would ask questions like:
How do you set the grid drive and in what meter position?
What is the exciter adjustment and in what meter position is that made?
How do you dip the final and in what meter position should you be looking at?
What should maximum plate and grid current be for proper operation?
What's the function of the coarse and fine coupling adjustments on the front panel?
What's is modulator resting current?
What are the functions of the audio and clipper controls?
etc. etc.

Well I miss understood, what was being said, I stand corrected and will go back under the rock.