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Author Topic: One - Do- Tree... Tests with the 2x2x2 40M Yagi stack  (Read 202678 times)
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #50 on: September 08, 2009, 01:11:58 PM »

LOL!

Yes, as it was once said, "When W3JN came on, the QRM QSYed."
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« Reply #51 on: September 08, 2009, 01:34:12 PM »

Geeesh you guys.  Now its even harder for us nines to get thru the east coast curtain.  Still hav'in lots o' fun work'in into Europe and the Middle East.

Steve, I only have one full wave loop, but it sure works better than a dipole!  I'm working on putting up a second loop.  Look out you guys....I may then only be 20 dB down.  Shocked Grin

73,  Jack, W9GT
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73, Jack, W9GT
Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #52 on: September 08, 2009, 02:04:19 PM »

I heard you in there one night working some DX. You were doing very well. I know you were loud at my place!
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K1JJ
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« Reply #53 on: September 08, 2009, 03:24:00 PM »

Geeesh you guys.  Now its even harder for us nines to get thru the east coast curtain.  Still hav'in lots o' fun work'in into Europe and the Middle East.

Steve, I only have one full wave loop, but it sure works better than a dipole!  I'm working on putting up a second loop.  Look out you guys....I may then only be 20 dB down.  Shocked Grin

73,  Jack, W9GT

That second loop will improve your hearing markedly once the atmospheric noise if gone from a whole hemisphere. Really worth the effort!

Yep, you should join us when we all hold court, Jack!  It wud be fun to have a midwestern station with us to give us some more DX come-hither. The Euros do it all the time - why not us?   We had some real good times in the past on 75M with an "American group" working DX.  Like a gang bang, we'd all work over any new call-ins...  Grin

As you know, the DX stations can usually hear most anyone in the USA, especially the big gun foreign DXers. But hearing the weaker DX takes a good beverage, K9AY or excellent transmitting antenna. Nothin's more embarassing than getting an S9+20 report and not being able to copy it.... Shocked   According to some UK hams I talk with, they claim the USA has a reputation for having no ears.  We gotta fix that... Grin

Johhny/JN - I hope to get on 40M tonight. We'll make a special good guy radio "dedication " to you.   

T
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N3DRB The Derb
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« Reply #54 on: September 08, 2009, 03:48:56 PM »


Quote
Like a gang bang, we'd all work over any new call-ins...


Grin Cheesy Tongue roflcopter
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #55 on: September 08, 2009, 03:58:46 PM »

Yea, we pass them around like a cheap date -- just like G4AMN and the UK crew do when we call them on 3799.




Quote
Like a gang bang, we'd all work over any new call-ins...


Grin Cheesy Tongue roflcopter

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N3DRB The Derb
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« Reply #56 on: September 08, 2009, 04:26:29 PM »

I double down DARE you to call " CQ DX gangbang, calling CQ CQ CQ for a DX gangbang " tonight.

toss em around like a chef salad.  Tongue Grin
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K1JJ
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« Reply #57 on: September 08, 2009, 04:38:40 PM »

Yea, we pass them around like a cheap date -- just like G4AMN and the UK crew do when we call them on 3799.


Yep, and the "radio climax" is getting your signal report.... squeeee... Grin  There are some parallels.


It reminds me of the movie scene in Star Trek where "Voyja" was looking for it's maker, its code. Spock entered in the code and all hell broke loose.  Likewise, hams look for a hot romp when they call over and over until they finally get that report fix. After that, it's time for a cigarette.

Occassionally we call our beaks out but go home with nothing
T



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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #58 on: September 08, 2009, 04:39:10 PM »

but what is 60 over in real volts. Like adding zeros to dollar bills and trying to pass them
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K1JJ
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« Reply #59 on: September 08, 2009, 05:00:20 PM »

but what is 60 over in real volts. Like adding zeros to dollar bills and trying to pass them


No not quite. It's more like locating the baddest MoFo on the playground and daring anyone to try to kick his ass.... Grin

[Next chance I get I'll run a sig gen into the FT-1000D and let ya know, Frank. It's probably not far off from your own receiver.]

T
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #60 on: September 08, 2009, 05:17:01 PM »

Volts are ambiguous. The amount will vary with the antenna connected. Field strength would be much more useful. But best of all is SNR. Of course that will vary with the antenna used too.


but what is 60 over in real volts. Like adding zeros to dollar bills and trying to pass them
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K1JJ
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« Reply #61 on: September 08, 2009, 06:34:55 PM »

Well, I just ran an S-meter test using my RF signal generator into both the FT-102 and the FT-1000D. I used a scope to measure the signal levels while under load into the receiver.

Both radio S-meters were previously set using the JJ Radio Moscow full scale method.   I will need a hi hi FB better generator and measuring gear to get better accuracy, but this is OK for now. [Frank, bring your HP with you next time you stop by)

At 50mv, (supposedly +60db over 9) on the FT-102, I found the S-meter was reading +55db over. About 5 db low.

But on the FT-1000D, I found the S-meter was a little high at about 66 db over S9. Not bad at all, really.

At 50 uv, testing S9, I didn't like the scope accuracy, so let that measurement go for now...

I understand that some of the ricebox manufacturers make their S-meter circuits generous, to give out better reports. I dunno. Has anyone run tests to check linearity and absolute S-meter levels?


Posted below are the S-meter levels you shud see at various voltage levels. All in all, I still prefer to set my meter at full scale to Radio Moscow and let the mud ducks fight to hit that standard, caw mawn.  If I want a "true" S-meter reading, it's simple enuff to add in 6db of attenuation from the rig's front panel . No big deal.

T

S-points for frequencies below 30 MHz:
Signal
strength   Relative
intensity   Received
voltage   Received power
(Zc = 50 Ohm)
S1   -48 dB   0.20 uV   -14 dBuV   790 aW   -121 dBm
S2   -42 dB   0.40 uV   -8 dBuV   3.2 fW   -115 dBm
S3   -36 dB   0.79 uV   -2 dBuV   13 fW   -109 dBm
S4   -30 dB   1.6 uV   4 dBuV   50 fW   -103 dBm
S5   -24 dB   3.2 uV   10 dBuV   200 fW   -97 dBm
S6   -18 dB   6.3 uV   16 dBuV   790 fW   -91 dBm
S7   -12 dB   13 uV   22 dBuV   3.2 pW   -85 dBm
S8   -6 dB   25 uV   28 dBuV   13 pW   -79 dBm
S9   0 dB   50 uV   34 dBuV   50 pW   -73 dBm
S9+10   10 dB   160 uV   44 dBuV   500 pW   -63 dBm
S9+20   20 dB   500 uV   54 dBuV   5.0 nW   -53 dBm
S9+30   30 dB   1.6 mV   64 dBuV   50 nW   -43 dBm
S9+40   40 dB   5.0 mV   74 dBuV   500 nW   -33 dBm
S9+50   50 dB   16 mV   84 dBuV   5.0 uW   -23 dBm
S9+60   60 dB   50 mV   94 dBuV   50 uW   -13 dBm
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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #62 on: September 08, 2009, 10:18:09 PM »

The only accurate S meters in my shack are the TCI / BR 8174 and HPSDR both track the  signal generator within a dB. Holding that kind of tracking in an analog AGC would be tuff. The R390A tracks quite well but the settings drift around a bit.
HUZ is right it is all about signal to noise ratio.
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w3jn
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« Reply #63 on: September 08, 2009, 11:23:45 PM »

Heard the HUZman on 7160 a few minutes ago, but Tom was either not on or too weak to copy  Huh
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #64 on: September 08, 2009, 11:44:33 PM »

We were on 7156 until a little after 11 PM ET - 6 AM your time. You must have heard me working the ZS on 7160. I shut down after that. I didn't have to, I just did.
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« Reply #65 on: September 09, 2009, 12:04:53 AM »

I wouldn't be surprised if the US-no ears rap is true and due to the importation of all manner of unshielded unfiltered RFI producing cheap junk here.  I may be mistaken but I would not be at all surprised if I learned the EU has much more stringent spectral purity requirements for unintentional radiators, such as no unintentional RF emission.

I'll be the first to admit I have no ears on 160 and 75.   I don't even call CQ on 160 because I know I get out a lot better than I can hear through my S9 noise level.   I badly need to put up some kind of rx loop antenna.

>I understand that some of the ricebox manufacturers make their S-meter circuits generous, to give out better reports. I >dunno.  Has anyone run tests to check linearity and absolute S-meter levels?

That sure doesn't seem to be the case with my 1000MP Mk V.   It seems to have the most stingy S meter I have seen.  It's a bit embarrassing because I almost always get better sig. reports than I can honestly give. 

I have considered using the Wolfman Jack wx conditions approach to sig reports:  Ur 260 dB over 9 here OM!

73
Rob K5UJ

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« Reply #66 on: September 09, 2009, 12:10:27 AM »

BTW, I like the idea of scrapping S units entirely and simply having meters graduated in dB from 0 to some upper limit.  Why not simply have that and a standard manufacturers can all meet and do away with the S unit nonsense?

R.
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K1JJ
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« Reply #67 on: September 09, 2009, 11:02:49 AM »

Heard the HUZman on 7160 a few minutes ago, but Tom was either not on or too weak to copy  Huh

Aw, too bad - you must have just missed me, Johnny.

I made TWO radio dedications to you and told the DXers we were waiting for you to get your local govt's permission to get on. Talked to a guy on Crete and Huz mentioned you in Athens, etc.  The SV9 was hitting +35 at times, so I KNOW you can make it thru to us, even with a modest wire hanging out.

We both worked a good 35 stations again including lots of Russians and some S. America for a change. It was fun to rule the court session with an iron fist. We would say, "OK, stand by Europe... we're switching antennas to S. America now - click."  And sure enuff, a few S.A. stations had been patiently waiting and came back to us. Then back to Euro and they came at us again.  The HUZman and I are having a ball!

T
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There's nothing like an old dog.
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« Reply #68 on: September 09, 2009, 12:41:47 PM »

Glad you guys are having fun... I'm stuck with the exact antithesis of your ant, Tom, a 30' length of wire tossed into a tree, about 6' from the wall of the apt building.

I'll listen again tomorrow AM ifn I get my raggedy ass outta bed in time.
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« Reply #69 on: September 09, 2009, 01:40:42 PM »

I wouldn't be surprised if the US-no ears rap is true and due to the importation of all manner of unshielded unfiltered RFI producing cheap junk here.  I may be mistaken but I would not be at all surprised if I learned the EU has much more stringent spectral purity requirements for unintentional radiators, such as no unintentional RF emission.



73
Rob K5UJ



I guess in some parts of the USA we deal with BPL. It's still around?Huh But Rob, in other countries THEY deal with horrendous line noise from their electrical system. Beverages and loops and ewes are a mainstay for their ears.

And I thought a standard for setting the S-meter was 50 micro-volts for S-9

Fred
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #70 on: September 09, 2009, 04:59:59 PM »

If there's not too much static tonight, I'll probably be on. My ears took a beating the last two night with JJ picking out the pissweakers. Lots of static from some storms in the Atlantic and last night additional storms in FL and other parts of SE USA.


Glad you guys are having fun... I'm stuck with the exact antithesis of your ant, Tom, a 30' length of wire tossed into a tree, about 6' from the wall of the apt building.

I'll listen again tomorrow AM ifn I get my raggedy ass outta bed in time.
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K1JJ
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« Reply #71 on: September 09, 2009, 05:11:19 PM »

If there's not too much static tonight, I'll probably be on.


I'd like to get on too, stadick or no stadick.

We should think up some new routines as we hold court. I think it's time to listen for "Russian stations named Vlad who drive yellow Yugos with wives named Svetlana or Olga.... only please!"

Also try to get some more PW 10W UK stations. The one we worked last night almost blew a cork with joy - man, he was excited.  Another one I use is to listen for any station who has NOT worked North America on 40M yet. That call actually pulls out quite a few pissweakers who have about given up after being body-slammed too many times by the I's and EA's for way too long.... Grin

I notice the real action starts after 10PM into 11PM est as the Russians and Europe wakes up. Earlier, we are talking to the insomniacs.

T
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There's nothing like an old dog.
Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #72 on: September 09, 2009, 05:34:06 PM »

There are two peaks in activity. One is early 6-8 PM ET (maybe even earlier now as the days grow shorter). These are the late nighters in Europe. There is also a propagation peak due to our sunet. Also, early on your will get some VK and ZL action on the long path. Other OC stuff may be available too.

Then there is a little lull as most of Europe goes to bed and the early risers aren't up yet. But around 11 PM ET, the Russians start to show up (it's something like 0500 their time). A little later the EU early risers show up. Another peak in propagation occurs with the EU sunrise. Right around that time, 1AM ET or so, ZLs start coming through. An hour or so later, the VKs (mostly VK7s) start to come through. Closer to our sine rise, more VKs (1,2,3) start to show up.

Of course, Central and South America is available all throughout these times, but I hear much more out of Europe.

So, you can work DX on 40 meters right now from about 4-5 PM ET to about 7-8 AM ET. With a better antenna you can add an hour or two on each end of these time. I would imagine this winter it will be around the clock or nearly so.
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K1JJ
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« Reply #73 on: September 09, 2009, 08:02:29 PM »

Is this cool or what?  First Iraqi contact - ever - the other day - and confirmed on 40M. Love that eQSL.   I'm sqeeeeeing all over the stack.... Grin

T


* Iraq on 40M QSL hi-hi-fb.jpg (39.42 KB, 528x336 - viewed 606 times.)
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Wise Words : "I'm as old as I've ever been... and I'm as young as I'll ever be."

There's nothing like an old dog.
Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #74 on: September 09, 2009, 09:06:55 PM »

I hope you don't work him more than once!     Wink

Is this cool or what?  First Iraqi contact - ever - the other day - and confirmed on 40M. Love that eQSL.   I'm sqeeeeeing all over the stack.... Grin

T
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