Appliance question

[Jim, W5JO]

There is a place in the town just South of me that buys dented and dinged appliances then replaces all the parts that are dinged with new ones.  They get them so cheap that after the replacement process, they sell what ever for about 50-70% of new price. 

The stuff is new and comes with warranties so that isn't a problem.  I bought a dishwasher from them a while back, Kitchenaid I think, which is as good as one can buy these days.  It was their top of the line model and I gave only about 150 dollars for it.  Look around for a store like that and if you find a one, brand won't matter because you can save so much money that you won't feel too bad about throwing it away if it gives trouble.

I hate to throw things like that away but the new standard for big ticket items is 3-5 years for replacement.  The best place I have found for replacement parts is repairclinic.com

[WA1GFZ]

I like to get at least 15 years out of anything I buy.

[W1ATR]

Well, the bad news is it really doesn't matter what you buy for consumer grade kitchen stuff Don, it's all crap.

I worked with one of the appliance hucksters here in Waterbury during the summer of 2001. We were contracted to do both the in warranty and out of warranty repair on the brands and models he sold. The deal was they would supply all the parts and the calls, (which were passed along from the factory reps) and we would go out and do the repairs. The pay was 70% of the service call labor money. Sounded good, and it tied up free time. Not!

As far as fridges go, I changed more of those Brazilian made Tecumseh compressors in pretty much every brand of fridge you could think of. It didn't matter the brand or model, they all have the same exact junk parts. I used to carry 20 defrost timers on my truck in three different part numbers that covered every model of fridge out there. Just three different ones. I changed hundreds of door switches, t-stats, defrost heaters, run caps, everything. I got so good at changing those compressors, I could do it in 45 minutes flat. Dishwashers, we changed pumps and motors, fill solenoids and dump valves, and control boards would go out like crazy just from a t storm rolling thru the area. I carried 8 or 10 different control boards and another 30 or 40 in stock at my shop, and they were anything but cheap. Out of everything, by far, the easiest appliance to repair is a standard cook stove. They only had a half dozen or so parts, and every one of them were always the same. All gas stoves use the same oven valve and glo igniter, electric stoves all use one of 4 different elements, etc. Only the control boards varied by model due to functions. I think the cheapest control board was around $225.

What's my point? Nothing really, just wanted to cry. 

What I mean is go and pick up a unit that your comfortable with. Spending more money on consumer level stuff WILL NOT get you better parts, or better reliability. It will go down after a short time, so don't get too attached to anything. I say if you don't care for crazy electronic controls, then get one with a simple wash timer like an old style washing machine. The simpler, the better.

Some other notes from personal experience dealing with these companies. All they're cust service blows. Most numbers will ring thru to india, or some other country. These people will get on the phone with you, after you have waited for an hour on hold, and aside from the fact that you won't be able to understand a damn thing they're saying, their only goal is to get you the hell off the phone. Be wary of supposed warranties, because they sound good on paper when your paying, but you have to check and see if ALL labor is covered. Most of the common brands only cover the parts and your the sucker that gets caught paying a nasty labor charge. A standard diagnostic was $165 for me to show up and say, "It's broke", THEN to actually change the part happened at $149/hr plus travel ($45), plus this, plus that, it was ridiculous.

I run a straight forward, no bullshit service company. I started it that way a long time ago, and I plan to sell it, or bury it that way when I retire/die. I had to hand ridiculous repair bills to customers that just made me feel like crap at the end of the day. I didn't need the $$$ that bad, and my two guys were pissed at me because this wasn't what they were trained to do. Couple that together with a heated YL who didn't care for my attitude after a day of dealing with this crap, and I called it quits after a few months before I lost my mind. We worked in some of these hellholes like Hartford and Bridgeport/New Haven, so packin a rod was a job requirement. I remember towards the end, I walked into the store and I could picture myself crankin a couple right into his chest and strolling out the door. Instead I quit, and told him to come outside and get his stuff off my van. It was bad.

73         

[k4kyv]

We finally decided to go for a cheaper dishwasher.  Looked in several appliance stores at various brands, and they all seemed to have pretty much identical construction; some of the components visible in different brands on display looked absolutely identical, down to the casting marks on the metal or plastic.  The differences between cheap ones and expensive ones seemed to be mostly cosmetic and whether or not it had additional features that would likely be seldom used and just be more stuff to crap out.  I did check out several commercial grade models from restaurant suppliers, but they were all priced anywhere from $3880 to over $6K, just for the smaller under the counter models.

We got one with a stainless steel tub and not the cheapest thing in the store, but still at about half the price of the old KitchenAid, adjusted for inflated dollarettes .  I wouldn't trust a plastic tub and have even heard of plastic tub dishwashers starting a house fire when something malfunctioned and allowed the heater to come on without the presence of any water.

My wife has a Sears card and they offered an extra 5% discount, and of course everything at Sears is always on sale.  I think their "regular price" is fictitious just as the inflated "list price" used to be for radio tubes.

It was a PITA to install because when I pulled the old one out I discovered that the water leak must  have existed for a long time before I found it, and part of the kitchen counter structure had rotted out, so I had to buy some plywood and repair the damage before I could even start the installation.

The actual installation wasn't bad.  I saved about $100 by doing it myself, and I know "professional" installers would not have taken the pains I did to make sure everything was correct, particularly since neither the kitchen room itself nor the counter structure have any such thing as a square corner or a level surface in them.

At one of the stores the salesman told me that I should not expect to get the life out of a new machine that I got out of the old one. "They all  have a motor a third the size, but do 10 times the work", he  said.  He estimated the life expectancy of any machine to be about 5 years.

At first I had planned to use the old 3/8" water line, but I couldn't find any decent compression fittings.  I  looked in two places and all I could find were "universal" fittings designed for either plastic or copper pipe.  When I brought  them home they seemed to fit loosely on the pipe.  I can remember how difficult it is to get compression fittings not to leak even when using the best of quality, so I went back and bought a flexible feed line that uses a rubber O-ring, installed it per instructions, and it did not leak.  Plus, there is so little room under the new machine that it is hard to even get to the inlet connector with tools.  Getting the machine in just the right position and re-using that copper pipe and then not have it to leak would have been a classic study in frustration, I am certain.

One thing I don't like about the new machines is that I couldn't find a single one with mechanical push-button controls.  They are all fully electronic.  Given the amount of T-storm activity we have here, I wonder how long it will be before the electronics gets wiped out from a lightning surge.

We opted out of the extended warranty, since it would have cost about half what we paid for the machine.

The installation took all weekend, so there went two more days of outside work before bad weather sets in, but when we gave it the smoke test it worked.

[w1vtp]

I had a Kenmore for about 15 years and it STB.  Got a SS Kitchen Aid and it is very quiet and does a great job (yes, it takes a lot longer to do the job then the Kenmore).  The Kenmore developed the same leak yours did Don.

We spent a tousing bucks but so far we like it. 

Al

[W1RKW]

Don,
My Frigidaire is 100% mechanical. No electronic timing or switches. The downside is the tub is plastic.  It's a disposable unit as far as I'm concerned. I've had it for 6 years. I did a revamp of some of the things that gave it up but for the most part it has performed well. The last revamp cost about $175 to bring it up to snuff.  The thing that bugs the crap out of me is the tub and the overall structure of the DW.  It's flimsy. If it isn't installed properly the friggin door does not line up with the latch.  That's what did in the first phase before repairs last year.  The poor install wore out the latching mechanism due to poor alignment.  So when it was repair time I pulled the unit out from under the counter.  Not sure if I'm glad I did this or if I shouldn't have tried to hide the abortion underneath.  I guess I'm glad I did. The wiring was a accident waiting to happen. Wiring was loose.  The contractor left a mess underneath. The DW was installed without setting up the legs properly.  There was a very small leak that stained the sub floor because of the drain line.  When  all was said and done I fixed up the wiring and plumbing and cleaned the mess underneath.  I extended the ceramic floor under the DW to make it level.  Without it caused the alignment to be off. In addition I put a sheet of plastic underneath to move any leakage out to the front of the DW so if it leaked we would know rather than having it be absorbed by the subflooring or go unnoticed. So for as cheap as this thing is it's worked out well. It does perform well. I  can't complain about how it cleans and it is extremely quiet.  I think like anything these devices should get some attention occasionally. The parts that were replaced will probably need to be replaced in another 6 years. Cheap plastic crap is all I can say.

[K6JEK]

Don, you didn't say what brand.  Kenmore?

Depending on the model, different companies make the Kenmores, Whirlpool, and Bosch, I believe. 

[k4kyv]

My only complaint so far about the new one is that after you use the quick rinse cycle, there is no indicator to tell you that the stuff inside has been rinsed only.  The old one had a "rinsed only" light that would come on whenever you opened the door after the rinse cycle.  This one shuts off after the rinse cycle just the same as after the wash cycles, so it would be very easy to mistake a rinsed load for a fully washed load, especially if there are multiple users in the house.  I would have thought that every machine made would come with some kind of "rinsed only" indicator.

I liked the Bosch models that I looked at but the lack of a drying function is what made me decide against one of those.

[K3ZS]

For some reason, maybe against the law, the European dishwashers don't have the drying function.

[k4kyv]

Probably another draconian European Union environmental rule, like the lead solder ban.

Restrictions on the sale of incandescent bulbs just went into effect across most of Europe in the continent’s latest effort to get people to save energy and combat global warming. Under EU rules starting this month, shops are no longer allowed to buy or import most incandescent frosted glass bulbs . Retailers can continue selling off their stock until they run out. While some Europeans are eagerly jumping on the bandwagon, others are panicking and have been stockpiling the old-style bulbs.

How long before their hams will no longer be permitted to use tube type transmitters?  Someone already mentioned that under proposed EMR limits, amateur radio power may be reduced to less than 100 watts.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/01/business/energy-environment/01iht-bulb.html

[ka3zlr]

Naa Don I look for them to Establish a Year for compliance, prior to said year that equipment is no longer permitted Emission on the bands.

Subsequent Enactment would put me you and about half the forum out of Business.....even though I haven't Transmitted a thing in years, I'm Expecting this from our fearless leadership...What easier way is there to shut a situation down than to pull their plugs for them...

Then...we'll have to re-gear with the updated stuff, it makes money for the suppliers everybody is operating (SIC) newer much more compliant stuff woo hoo....so sez the Authority and it Busts our asses even more to stay operative on AM...it's all about moving equipment and money...

73
Jack.

[Jim, W5JO]

My TV just crapped out for the second time in 5 years.  I have almost made up my mind to replace it rather than fix it this time.  But I wondered which brand would be best in the 42 inch size.  I find a lot of "I've had it three weeks and it is wonderful" type remarks but I can't find any real technical comments about quality.

The place where I buy appliances does not sell TV sets but did say it would not matter since they all are good for only about 3 years.  So what is the wisdom here?  Is there a brand that is best and may last more than 3 years that is reasonably priced?

[k4kyv]

My past few TV's  have been all solid state except for the CRT, and have all lasted for 10 years or more.  I just tossed out a perfectly good 21" one  that was almost 30 years old and used to belong to my mother.  It would have needed a digital converter,  had some broken knobs, and plastic solid state TV's don't have enough usable components inside to make it worth the trouble to open the case to salvage them.

I have never owned a flat-screen model yet, so don't know what kind of life expectancy those have.  But I would stay away from plasma, since they generate  BTU's like an electric space heater, consume a lot of electricity, and have a reputation for generating loads of RF hash all across the HF spectrum.

Maybe the TV's here last so long because we so seldom turn them on.

[K3ZS]

I had a Panasonic CRT TV that crapped out a few months after the standard warranty ran out.   It had a great picture but apparently they had a bad batch of CRTs.    Even though the CRT was warranted for two years, they would not let me replace it.    Had to do it at a service center at a cost of a few  hundred bucks labor.    Put the TV into bulk waste.   I now have an LCD HDTV that seems to work great.    I think these types of TVs will have good reliability over the long run.    I always thought I would get a Sony, but Sam's Club had a different brand that was offered at a price I could not refuse.

[ka3zlr]

We just bought a Flat screen, shit canned Cable an went with Direct TV, what the heck if I'm paying I want the latest....an I'm Glad I did....I don't see a lifespan on these flat screens light the ole tube sets...but the picture today is crisp...

73
Jack.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

I still have a Sony 27 inch that was bought in the early 80's when TV manufacturers were still making TV's as a piece of furniture. The TV is on for several hours each day and still provides a great picture. I remember it took two gorilla type guys to carry this thing up my 12 front steps into the house and then 4 more steps into the room where it presently sits. I have no clue how I would even get it out of here unless I took a saw to the cabinet and took it out in pieces. Another Sony I bought around 1991, which is a rear projection 47 inch TV, also still performs very well. A LCD 52 inch Sony has been here for several years and  also provides great pictures. An common issue/fault with LCD displays TV or monitors, is non-functioning pixels. Turn the TV or monitor on and look closely at the screen when it's completely black. You should see no specks of white, green, red, etc. anywhere on the screen if all pixels are functioning. Most TV/monitor manufacturers have a disclaimer buried somewhere in their brochure on how many non-functioning pixels are required before it's considered defective.