SW Bcst Antennas

[W1GFH]

Some very inspiring illustrations, like the Horizontal log periodic, wowza, what a gain pattern.

http://www.antenna.be/

[W7TFO]

By the time a commercial setup of the two towers and everything else + the labor cost is vectored in, a $50K top estimate is about right.

Broadcasters usually figure on $100/foot minimum per tower installed.  That is for an easy job..it can double overnight with odd soil or location conditions.

Commercials stations' antennas are all about durability, and getting the max mV/meter for the buck.  If they are serious, at least.

[N3DRB The Derb]

sneak pic of K1JJ's new 40 meter ant for 7160 + dx:



Not a slopbukit in the entire world would evar bother him.

[KD6VXI]

sneak pic of K1JJ's new 40 meter ant for 7160 + dx:



Not a slopbukit in the entire world would evar bother him.

I BELIEVE I had mentioned previously, DON'T use pix of my station without my permission!

lol.  We can wish, can't we?

Transmitters.be is another nice site to go along with antennas. 

--Shane

[K1DEU]

  Fortunately we widdle poor folk have some excellent options to null out the rich and famous slingers with very small cheap directional receiving arrays.

Such as KAZ" Squashed Delta Antennas. Much better than K9AY arrays
  http://www.dxing.info/equipment/kaz_bryant.dx

Gerry Thomas, KB4JFM Phaser and QUANTUM  Q X LOOP v2.0 Plus+   
  http://www.dxtools.com/PRODUCTS.htm

Or The Kiwa Loop  
  http://www.kiwa.com/kiwaloop.html

Notes from Mark, WA1ION     
 http://www.geocities.com/MarkWA1ION/cape2001.htm

[W1GFH]

This almost looks do-able. 

[KA1ZGC]

$50k for a shortwave transmitting dipole sounds about right.

Bear in mind that no shortwave broadcast station in this country (or many others) is licensed for anything less than 50,000 watts. That's nothing you're going to build out of hamfest parts. You need serious cable for the radiators, and some very manly insulators (adding to the mechanical strength required of the radiators themselves).

Additionally, at those power levels, high humidity can allow serious corona discharge unless you have corona loops on the ends. This adds a bit to the mechanical complexity, and therefore to the cost.

Last fall, we picked up a new Shively six-bay for an FM station. That was $36,000-ish. Once that kind of antenna is installed, the only real force it has to bear is from windload. A dipole has to bear it's own wheight, plus windload, all while handling a minimum of 50,000 watts of power.

So yeah, 50 grand sounds reasonable. Building a broadcast station anywhere on the dial is anything but cheap.

[k4kyv]

Notice the legs of the dipole use cage construction.  Not easy to build in a fashion so that it stays up in heavy wind and ice, but helps with corona discharge at high power levels, plus broader bandwidth without retuning.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

$50k isn't much. There are many hams that have spent far more than that on antennas.

[KD6VXI]

$50k isn't much. There are many hams that have spent far more than that on antennas.

And audiophools spend that much on speakers, as well.

--Shane

[Ed/KB1HYS]

Such as KAZ" Squashed Delta Antennas. Much better than K9AY arrays
  http://www.dxing.info/equipment/kaz_bryant.dx

That squashed loop looks just like the directional field antennas we used for field expediants in the army.
kind-of  half a rhombic terminated with it's characteristic impedance. I never verified the performance, having neither the equipment or inclination at the time.  In a pinch we would use a salt water resistor at the end. The old style cylindrical earplug cases and one packet of salt from our rations making about a 300 ohm resistor. Fine for the low power field xmitters in use.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

And oxygen free cables!

$50k isn't much. There are many hams that have spent far more than that on antennas.

And audiophools spend that much on speakers, as well.

--Shane

[flintstone mop]

YUP
I bet that contest station on Rte80W,Near Sharon Pa. (Buddly knows who) prolly spent a couple hundred thousand for his setup. K3LR is the station!


Allan Weiner got off cheap for his Log periodic Yagi, for 7.415. Thom, KA1ZGC might have more info. I thought it was a Sommner(?) @ $50K (?)
Fred

[K1JJ]

sneak pic of K1JJ's new 40 meter ant for 7160 + dx:

It's coming along slow but surely, Derb -

[KA1ZGC]

Allan Weiner got off cheap for his Log periodic Yagi, for 7.415. Thom, KA1ZGC might have more info. I thought it was a Sommner(?) @ $50K (?)

Can't remember how much it cost. Not sure I ever knew, to be honest. You'd have to ask Allan.

You're probably right on the name. German outfit, unusual design, good results.

Don't think that's for 7415, though. Fairly sure he's got 7415 on the rhombic. That was originally either for 9330 or 17495.

[K1JJ]

I thought the Tron was on 40M wid the BCQ rotary log once. So maybe it covers 7415.  Axe him.


The pictures recently posted of the BCQ lazy H's looked like they were for about 9mc??

T

[KA1ZGC]

I just had a memory flashover. 9330's feedline is open wire and runs out into the field on scaled-down telephone poles. That would have to have be feeding the rhombic. No other choices for ants that would take that kind of feed (except the lazy H array, which came much later).

The lazy H array was for 5105, I beleive.

I haven't been to WBCQ in at least three years, probably longer, so the memory's not what it could be.

Part of the reason I'm unsure of all this is I can't remember what antenna is being driven by the Collins pizza-oven transmitter that used to be on 17.495. A memory of an antenna is missing, which is making it difficult for me to accurately put the others in their correct roles in my mind.

I'm certain of 933x's feedline, and stand behind the conclusion that it's tied to the rhombic. I feel pretty confident about the H array on 5105 (or 5110, or whatever it is now). Outside that, I'm just not sure anymore.

Looks like I'm overdue for a trip to Monticello, doesn't it?

[kc2ifr]

$50k isn't much. There are many hams that have spent far more than that on antennas.

But the vast majority spend A LOT less.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Which is a big problem. Too many hams spend a ton of money on radios and accessories and then connect them to crappy antennas. The result, a nice looking station that is PW.

$50k isn't much. There are many hams that have spent far more than that on antennas.

But the vast majority spend A LOT less.

[Ed/KB1HYS]

Good Antennas (for Amatuer use) need not cost much.

Of course, good is relative.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

True, although that depends on your definition of good. That said, the amount spent on your antennas should be a significant portion of the station cost. Otherwise, the money spent on radios in the shack is wasted.

Good Antennas (for Amatuer use) need not cost much.

Of course, good is relative.

[k4kyv]

Which is a big problem. Too many hams spend a ton of money on radios and accessories and then connect them to crappy antennas. The result, a nice looking station that is PW.

I built my present antenna system in 1981-83.  At the time the brand new tower, hardware, concrete and copper wire  for  the ground radials cost me a total of about $1600.  That was about the same price as a top-of-the-line transceiver appliance of the day.  My previous antenna had been a dipole about 25' high, fed with open wire, strung between trees.

I could have spent the $1600 for the radio, and still would have had a mediocre signal at best using the old antenna.  What would I have to show for it to-day?  A mediocre signal from a JS antenna strung between trees and an obsolete, 28 yrs-old transceiver worth practically nothing on the used market, even if it still worked with no crapped out unobtainable replacement proprietary component.

Instead, I chose the antenna, and kept the homebrew transmitter built from stuff scrounged from flea markets, dumptsters, estate sales, etc. that nobody else wanted and thought was worthless junk.  Once the antenna was completed, I was able to generate a signal that dominates all of N. America using that transmitter.  Now, nearly 30 years later, I still use the same transmitter and antenna, and still put out a dominant signal all over N. America; ain't a slopbucket anywhere that can bother me.

I think the antenna was by far the better investment.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Amen! Preach it brother!   

Which is a big problem. Too many hams spend a ton of money on radios and accessories and then connect them to crappy antennas. The result, a nice looking station that is PW.

I built my present antenna system in 1981-83.  At the time the brand new tower, hardware, concrete and copper wire  for  the ground radials cost me a total of about $1600.  That was about the same price as a top-of-the-line transceiver appliance of the day.  My previous antenna had been a dipole about 25' high, fed with open wire, strung between trees.

I could have spent the $1600 for the radio, and still would have had a mediocre signal at best using the old antenna.  What would I have to show for it to-day?  A mediocre signal from a JS antenna strung between trees and an obsolete, 28 yrs-old transceiver worth practically nothing on the used market, even if it still worked with no crapped out unobtainable replacement proprietary component.

Instead, I chose the antenna, and kept the homebrew transmitter built from stuff scrounged from flea markets, dumptsters, estate sales, etc. that nobody else wanted and thought was worthless junk.  Once the antenna was completed, I was able to generate a signal that dominates all of N. America using that transmitter.  Now, nearly 30 years later, I still use the same transmitter and antenna, and still put out a dominant signal all over N. America, and ain't a slopbucket anywhere that can bother me.

I think the antenna was by far the better investment.

[KA1ZGC]

Along those lines:

Eimac make great transmit antennae.

Their receive antennae suck.



(I almost had a haiku there.)

[KD6VXI]

Along those lines:

Eimac make great transmit antennae.

Their receive antennae suck.

Yes, but lucky for us, Svetlana made great transmit antennas as well, enabling our dipoles to work FB

--Shane