You have exceeded your license class priveledges OM!

[KX5JT]

I call cq.  I do.  I don't hear much AM CQing on 40 meters.  It works.  Not everytime but a lot.  I was on 7.160 this afternoon (still am) calling CQ and I actually get a few contacts that way.  Many times it's someone who "doesn't usually run AM" and gives their ricebox mode button/switch a workout.  I think that's awesome.  One fella today was running a nice sounding Kenwood TS-2000 and worked AM on it for the first time.  I was impressed with the audio.  After a while when we were wrapping up the QSO I noticed on qrz.com that he was a General class. 

What would you do?  I wasn't sure and we were saying 73 so I remained silent.  I got to thinking maybe I should have revealed to him his error.  I'm sure it was an innocent mistake.  I was happy to see his enthusiasm for the mode.  After the fact, I thought maybe if I clued him in, it would possibly give him incentive to upgrade.  I didn't want to embarrass or discourage him though.  If I would have caught it earlier I think it would have been proper to tell him, maybe see if we could qsy to a open frequency in the general portion of 40 meter and continue.

What would you do?

KX5JT

[KF1Z]

First thing I'd do is check the FCC database...

Don't trust QRZ and risk making a fool of yourself.....

Then if you feel like it, sent him a nice little email...
"just to let him know....."

------

There are LOTS of General class licensees that operate on 3.8 mhz, to work DX....

They don't realize that ALL their signal is actually under 3.8mhz, and "outside their operating priviledges.."

Some, when told about it, are a little ashamed of themselves, others of course, ttry to argue the point...




Do whatever makes you feel good!

Bruce
kf1z

[k4kyv]

To be honest, I wouldn't give a rat's arse.  I might send the guy a private e-mail reminder if I happened to know for sure he was exceeding his privileges, but it is very unlikely that I'm going to be playing radio cop, running to check the FCC data base for the licence class every time I work a station, anyway.

I don't know why they have even bothered to keep the US amateur bands segmented with all those subbands and sub-sub bands.  The whole concept of incentive licensing was obviously abandoned long, long ago; even the ARRL now publicly admits that amateur radio is no longer a technically oriented endeavour, but has evolved into a "communicator's hobby". The League even went so far as to take most of the technical  stuff out of QST and squirrelled it away in that separate publication that even full members have to pay extra for, QEX, based on the notion that the majority of QST readers would have no interest in technical articles.  Not only did incentive licensing prove to be a dismal failure in terms of its stated purpose, which purportedly was to enhance the technical knowledge and skills of the amateur radio population; if anything, IL after it went into effect in 1968, accelerated the demise of technical experimentation, home-building and AM phone.  Just look back at any of the amateur radio magazines of the pre-incentive licensing era, 73, CQ, Ham Radio or QST, and compare the content to what you see in CQ or QST to-day.

We should simply go the way of Canada, UK and many other countries round the world that have only a couple of classes of licence, offering either "limited" or "full" privileges.  The limited entry level class would have limited privileges not based on band segmentation, but perhaps based on maximum authorised  power level and/or access only to certain bands or modes.  That was the way it actually was prior to 1968, when we had Novice (very limited CW privileges), Technician (all privileges above a certain  VHF/UHF frequency), and General (full amateur privileges). Our complex matrix of sub-bands and sub-sub-bands, based on a combination of operator class and modes of emission, is nothing short of ridiculous, and nothing like it exists anywhere else in the world.

[K4TLJ]

One evening in January I was working in my shop and had a repaired HW-101 transceiver on listening to a QSO on 80 meters. One of the guys invited listeners to take part so I keyed the mike and gave my call not really paying any attention to the frequency. Within ten seconds one of the participants was letting me have it in no uncertain terms. I was on 3695 and a General. He was really nasty. I signed off and contacted the local Ham club re the next testing session. Two weeks later I was a no code extra. I have no more knowledge or skills than I had as a General. I still do very little 'on the air' but at least I don't have to worry about being 'out of band'. Silly rule anyway. Bet I am more technically competent that most of the guys that were berating me.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Not more than a month ago, I heard a US station working a VK on 7110. That's outside the US allocation for any license!

[K1JJ]

If I heard someone operating as a General in the Extra band, I'd say nothing. He likely knows what he's doing and there's a chance he upgraded.  No sense getting into a Ron Boot hassle over nothing.


However, if I heard a USA station operating outside of the USA phone band, I would certainly give him an anonymous "heads up"  - to keep a fellow ham from getting a citation. I'd want someone to do the same for me.  It might even be because he was on the wrong ricebox VFO. It happened to me once.

Just the other day I heard a W4 calling CQ DX on about 7115.  I quickly mentioned to him he was out of the US phone band. (and so was I... )  There was a long pause - then he thanked me and disappeared.

I think there is a natural inclination to think the Extra phone band extends down to 7100. Many band edges are even 00 numbers.  What a stupid system to begin with!

It shud be, "Here's your band edges and here's your power limits - now stay within them and operate any legal mode you want."

T

[k4kyv]

I think there is a natural inclination to think the Extra phone band extends down to 7100. Many band edges are even 00 numbers.  What a stupid system to begin with!

It shud be, "Here's your band edges and here's your power limits - now stay within them and operate any legal mode you want."

Even during a major CW QRMtest, the CW activity on 40m becomes sparse above about 7060. A handful of data signals may be heard as high as 7080 or thereabouts, but virtually the only CW activity to be heard on 7075-7125 is maybe two or three slow-speed signals at any one time operating in the old novice band. Otherwise, when the band is open for DX, 7075-7125 is packed with foreign SSB. Everywhere else in the world EXCEPT in continental USA, amateurs can work phone on 7075-7125. Even U.S. licensees in states, possessions and territories outside the continental 48 are allowed to operate phone on 7075-7100.

While amateurs in the rest of the entire planet are allowed to work prime phone DX simplex on their operating frequency, continental USA is like the pre-civil rights era Jim Crow south: We are relegated to the back of the bus.

[W1ATR]

I kind of go along Don and Tom on this one. I refuse to sit with fingers ready on the keyboard to bang in every call sign I hear. I get very little operating time in as it is and almost no AM on the lower bands. (antenna challenged city lot) Unless the other station is really F'd up in some way, lifes to short to be some kind of tightass that corrects everyone on the air.

They love to do that crap on the pocket protector band, aka 2m.

On a side note regarding correcting others on the air. I actually had some 2m geek argue the use of "Roger" a few years back. I was in a qso with another mobile while we were out pushing some snow around. He said something, whatever it was, to me, and I replied with "Roger". Well this little pencilneck gets in there and says, with authority, "YOU CAN'T SAY THAT HERE, that's for cb radio!!"

I said, "excuse me.", and he repeats what he said. So, being short of both sleep and temper at that moment, I told him to "educate himself before making ignorant statements on the air. Roger comes from pilots during WWII saying phrases like Roger Wilco, and so forth to confirm receipt of another stations transmission, and that's about 20 years before the chicken band was born. I also told him (I'm a mean bastard btw) that if he took his head out of his grandma's underwear drawer for a minute and picked up a book, he would already know this."(Although, I don't remember being this polite.) I mentioned how he forgot to give his call which IS a valid amateur radio rule, but I didn't hear from him again after that, and never did get his call.

One of the reasons I chucked most of the gear I had that goes above 30mhz. 

[ve6pg]

..interesting...but not all is rosy, here in canada....the "basic" ticket here does have limits....ya, a basic can werk fone on all the bands, but....he is not supposed to run high power, or legally werk on transmitters.....but, there are a ton of these guys using amplifiers, and they will openly talk of werking on their transmitters....there are a few guys that run around the bands, actually looking for these offenders....
  ..i think the problem is, most basic hams dont know the rules here, and just buy their plastic radios, dipole-in-a-bag, and of course, they need an amplifier....
  ...and i'm glad don mentioned "continental u.s. "......i've werked many hams, in alaska, and hawaii, who have more band space, because they are in different "zones", therefore allowed different  regulations...

..sk..

[AB3FL]

We should simply go the way of Canada, UK and many other countries round the world that have only a couple of classes of licence, offering either "limited" or "full" privileges.  The limited entry level class would have limited privileges not based on band segmentation, but perhaps based on maximum authorised  power level and/or access only to certain bands or modes. 

This would be the best way to do it.   Maybe keep the classes as they are with tech being limited as it is.  General and Extra should have the whole band only general has limited power say 500W and Extra can go to 1500W and that means run AM with 1500W carrier also  

Tom - AB3FL

[Ed/KB1HYS]

Sounds like a two class system would work,

Technician - operating pretty much as it is  and another with full spectrum allowances.

Techncian and Adavanced?  There'd be no need of extra or general.

As for the phone allocations, we should see why the lower end of 40 isn't allowed for phone here in the US. If there was a legitimate reason, like interference to some fixed service, that no longer exists there's a chance to see about getting it changed. 

Of course the CW folks will FREQ OUT it we try it... 

[ve6pg]

..understand another part of our tickets....we can use any mode, from band edge to edge...so, 7-7.3, 1.8-2.0, etc....the only thing(s) that we must observe are, not to interfere with an on going qso, or we must not exceed 6khz in bandwidth. the only exception to that, is, 12khz FM on 10 metres...

[ve6pg]

...i did forget to mention that, we do not have use of the 60m band here...dont know why....

 ..sk..

[k4kyv]

..understand another part of our tickets....we can use any mode, from band edge to edge...so, 7-7.3, 1.8-2.0, etc....the only thing(s) that we must observe are, not to interfere with an on going qso, or we must not exceed 6khz in bandwidth. the only exception to that, is, 12khz FM on 10 metres...

But I have never heard of a Canadian ham being cited for too much "bandwidth" when running AM.  Many of the  stations I have talked to use the same kind of AM equipment as we use here in the states, with no special filtering added to narrow up the frequency response.

Or could it be necessary (versus occupied) bandwidth that the rule is talking about?

It would be far better to avoid being led down the garden path of specific bandwidth limitation once again.  A more sensible alternative would be to list the modes exactly as they are listed now, but add a simple provision allowing additional modes not specifically on the list, provided the necessary bandwidth did not exceed that of double sideband AM phone.  This would be similar to the rule that we (at least used to) have, saying that (narrowband) FM is permitted on the HF phone bands provided the bandwidth does not exceed that of an AM signal with the same modulation source.  Leaving the bandwidth limit vague would allow for innovation, and this would satisfy the ARRL's stated purpose for their ill-fated bandwidth petition, without adversely affecting incumbent modes already in use.

.....i think the problem is, most basic hams dont know the rules here, and just buy their plastic radios, dipole-in-a-bag, and of course, they need an amplifier....

Which can only be encouraged by the institutionalisation of appliance operation... via that rule that prohibits legally working on transmitters or building homebrew ones.  I think UK has a similar provision.

[KA1ZGC]

I remember when the US phone allocations had just expanded, I was on 3725 talking with someone. It might have even been you, Tim.

Another station broke in on a ricebox on AM and actually sounded half-decent. I told him he had his ricebox sounding real nice on AM, he said thanks, that he was real excited because he'd just upgraded to General and couldn't wait to put his rig through its paces.

I keyed up and told him I was sure it was an honest mistake, and that nobody was going to blow the whistle on him or anything, but that he could only transmit between 3800-4000, and we were on 3725, but the rig sounded good, and we looked forward to working him in the General portion sometime soon, 73!

The same thing's probably going to take place on 40 for a short while longer, then dissipate as everyone figures out where the bear 10-1000 is.

[ve6pg]

..it used to be tough to get your ticket...but, now it is simpler....there are 2 classes of license here. basic, and advanced. i got my ticket, when written theory was the test, and radio regs, along with cw.
 the thing that bugs me is, on the websites, i says i am "basic/advanced/morse"...
..well, that was not the ticket i got. first was the amateur, then the advanced amateur. but my status appears to have been down-graded to this other type of listing....
  ..my point about the "basic" werking on transmitters is, if you want to legally werk on this stuff, you have to get your advanced license. after you achieve that, you can run higher power, and have all the fun you want...remember, in canada we are permitted 1000 watts dc input, as well...

..sk..

[k4kyv]

  ..my point about the "basic" werking on transmitters is, if you want to legally werk on this stuff, you have to get your advanced license. after you achieve that, you can run higher power, and have all the fun you want...remember, in canada we are permitted 1000 watts dc input, as well...

That rule launches new hams towards appliance operation by default: requiring entry level licensees to use only commercial equipment and not allowing them to work on their own transmitters is much like the type-acceptance rule we have for CB.

A brand new "Basic" licensee cannot legally throw together a simple crystal controlled QRP transmitter and operate it on CW, re-crystal and re-tune an ancient CB rig to make it work on one or more ham bands, or rework an old ARC-5 command set for his first transmitter.

In the old Novice  days, it usually took 6 weeks or longer after passing the test before the ticket actually came in the mail.  In the meantime, the novice would build the transmitter and test it into a  dummy load, put up an antenna, set up the transmit/receive function with the receiver, and have everything ready for the smoke test the day the ticket arrived.  Those who were fortunate enough to have a licensed ham in the vicinity to check out the station and try it out over the air, were ready to have their first QSO the moment the licence arrived.  I had to spend most of my first day troubleshooting mine because the antenna would not take a load from the transmitter.  But I had already learnt a lot about radio by the time I was able to make my first contact.

If the FCC had ruled back then that I could only buy a plastic box radio to first get on the air, as I upgraded the natural next step would have been to buy a bigger, better and more expensive plastic box radio and never even give a thought to the possibility that I could build anything myself, or refurbish and modify an old rig and put it back on the air.

[ve6pg]

...no argument here don...but, the purpose behind this is twofold...
...the ham community was getting older, and dying-off..the rules were relaxed in order to bring more people into the ranks. most new hams, see/saw no reason fer cw, and i would guess that 90% of new hams have no idea about werking on equipment. let alone, werking on toob type stuff...i do find it sad, that these guys dont know about this stuff, but i have been quite surprised, that many have started reading old handbooks, etc., to further their understanding of radio. many more see no reason fer a 1957 handbook...
  the other reason fer the relaxed regs was, industry canada did not/does not
 want people with no technical ability playing around in their radios, until they have achieved the level of technical ability to do so, hence, the next level of license.
  i agree with you, that it is sad the technical ability is gone, but, how many people could understand/repair their kenmore transceiver?...

..sk..

[Opcom]

I just keep the 8.5x11 ARRL chart handy. Helps alot since I seldom operate and don't remeber all the band edges perfectly.

[ka3zlr]

Most young people today I don't think have one idea what's even being Lost here, or even cares for that matter.

It's a shame and they have no interest in running around junken out old TV's and such like we did and still do...Look at the Toys they got today... Especially the Cars...

73
Jack.

[Ed-VA3ES]

As a Canadian, I am vigorously opposed to the "Basic" rule that says one can't work on transmitters as a "Basic" licencee.  This    works against learning about transmitters, and  prevents new hams from building simple rigs.

My first "rig" was a one-transister Pierce oscillator with a 3885 rock.  Managed to work a buddy  about 1 km away.    I wasn't licensed!    My next rig was a Heath AT-1, (to which which I added a modulator).   I built and modified all sorts of surplus  crap,  as well as disused VHF radios which I converted to 2M.  I learned a lot that way.  Unless today's "Basic" want to flout the law and rip into their rigs anyway, they'll never learn anything.   I got into radio at 14, and knew literally nothing.  Took me four years to get my ticket, and by that time I knew enough to work on VHF radios.  I worked on  a lot of disused tube-type CB radios, which I modified to hell-and-back.  Even put one on  10M.   

Working according to the rules and regs, today's "Basic" just doesn't have that opportunity, unless he breaks the law.   Crazyness!

[KX5JT]

Thanks for all the responses.  I think I will keep my mouth shut.  At the most I may say something like "welcome to HF" and continue the QSO.  It is certainly a good point that qrz.com may not have been updated.  I don't really give a rats ass much anyway as long as the person is not a bootlegger in the sense of not having a license at all.  Then who knows if that's true too?  I've run across a callsign or two that wasn't on qrz.com but sure enough was in the FCC database for years and is still valid.  I operate with a computer in front of me so I often do look up callsigns on QRZ.com, not to "check validity", but to gain more information about the contact, maybe put a face to the voice or get a website link.  It may be something related to voyeurism but it's human nature. 

73 everyone, KX5JT

[AF9J]

I remember when the US phone allocations had just expanded, I was on 3725 talking with someone. It might have even been you, Tim.

Another station broke in on a ricebox on AM and actually sounded half-decent. I told him he had his ricebox sounding real nice on AM, he said thanks, that he was real excited because he'd just upgraded to General and couldn't wait to put his rig through its paces.

I keyed up and told him I was sure it was an honest mistake, and that nobody was going to blow the whistle on him or anything, but that he could only transmit between 3800-4000, and we were on 3725, but the rig sounded good, and we looked forward to working him in the General portion sometime soon, 73!

The same thing's probably going to take place on 40 for a short while longer, then dissipate as everyone figures out where the bear 10-1000 is.

Oops!  I won't lie guys, I made the same stupid mistake when I got my General way back when.  I was at W9YT (the Univ. of Wisconsin club station), using the club's TS-830S.  Either I called CQ, or answered a CQ on 7170.  I mentioned to the guy on the other end of the QSO that I was happy to have recently gotten my General.  He said "hmmmm", and that that was the extent of it (he knew I was operating outside of my priveleges, but never told me I was).  After the QSO ended, I decided to tune 40m, to look for another QSO, I looked at the display, and noticed I was on 7170!!  I felt like a complete moron!  Needless to say, I didn't make that mistake again.

Ellen - AF9J

[ve6pg]

...ed...i agree with you...how ya gonna learn, if you dont try?..

...i looked at the american allocations fer 80/75m....wow..what a mess....if i read it correctly, there is NO cw allowed above 3600kc.?....is this a ARRL bandplan, or the freqs set by the FCC ?..

  ..sk..

[Tom WA3KLR]

Hi Tim,

CW is allowed everywhere.