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Author Topic: Video of S-Meter in Europe as 40M Yagis switched  (Read 3905 times)
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K1JJ
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"Let's go kayaking, Tommy!" - Yaz


« on: April 18, 2009, 12:18:51 AM »

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7494732853260280993

This is pretty cool.  The other night I was on 40M talking with Tony / G6YWL in the UK on about 7150 kc.  He made a video of his S-meter and audio as I switched my three 40M Yagis from Europe to California to South America.  Bear in mind this is speaker-to-mike audio.

He added in some receiver attenuation to put the S-meter close to S9 for best linearity and accuracy.  Anyway, the signal peaks are S9+5 towards Europe and S2 to S3 facing California and S. America.  At 6db per S-unit, this equates to something around 35-45db difference between the three Yagi directions, depending on fading.

The drop in audio tells the story in the video.

BTW, all tests were made at full power.... no fudging.  The three antenna impedances in the shack are all close to 75 ohms j0 each, so each one loads up the same in their respective direction.


Also, I've been experimenting lately with audio RF processing - just a touch. Notice the ssb audio hangs the S-meter up near the peak and barely swings down. His receiver AGC is set to "fast," so it would show the audio dips if they were present.  I guess it's a good thang to keep the average power high on ssb as long as the audio doesn't get too nasty sounding like a corntester.

Check it out. I'd like to get set up to do this for other stations too.  I know some of the guys here do it already.

Tnx to HuzMan for reformatting and shrinking down the size of this movie file for me.

**  I needed to click on the link above two separate tries to make it load properly...  **

T


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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2009, 01:46:21 AM »

That's an awesome display.

I didn't realize that you were going to link off-site. You could have used the original file since the size limitations of the forum here don't come into play. Not sure what Google Video did to the file but it's quite fuzzy. The link below should look much better.

http://www.amwindow.org/misc/video/k1jj1/k1jjstraps.html
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Todd, KA1KAQ
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« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2009, 09:19:43 AM »

Pretty amazing! Much more dramatic than the night you were experimenting on 80, Tom.

Goes to show that the old saying is true, you can have the biggest super rig out there, it's still all in the antenna.
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k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2009, 01:41:49 PM »

Much bigger difference than what I get with my beverage.  I have been toying with the idea of putting up either a wire yagi or maybe a 2 or 3 element quarter wave vertical array using TV push-up masts, aimed towards Europe.  60 quarter wave radials per pole on 40 would take a  lot less copper than the 120 quarter wave radials I installed with my 160m vertical.

Speaking of Europe, where are all the Euro-AM'ers now that 40m has been expanded on their side of the Atlantic?  I have worked only one station, from Belgium, when he switched his ricebox to AM.  We had a good two-way AM contact.  40m should offer a much better path than 75, but I have yet to hear any of the 3705 gang on 40m.

Also, where are the French stations?  I have heard one (on slopbucket) since they gained access to 7.1-7.2.  Maybe that fellow was right about how few ham antennas are seen when travelling through France these days.  I hear loads of Spanish and Italian stations, a few Brits, even fewer Germans and little else out of Europe.

But I have had  limited success carrying on meaningful contacts with the DX stations.  The band has quickly become dominated by the "hello-g'bye, ur five-nine, pse QSL, 73, QRZ?" type of activity from the certificate collectors. What little success I have had was at 0500-0700 GMT.  The paper collectors pretty much have it tied up in the early evening hours in N America.  These are the same people who are griping about AM on 7160.  They think they own the band when DX propagation is coming through and that everyone else should defer to their interest.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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K1JJ
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« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2009, 01:43:21 PM »

Thanks for the repost of the video, Steve.

Todd: Yes, 40M is a better band than 80M for obtaining sharper patterns simply cuz of the less height required and smaller booms per number of elements that can couple into surrounding stuff.  It's easier to put up a flat, straight textbook Yagi.

Actually, what you are hearing on the video are three seperate Yagis, not front to backs of one. I consider it a "system" of Yagis, thus, the system itself has certain f-b and front-side readings.  To get a true f-b of a Yagi wud require rotating it or making field measurments in a large circle around it.  

Good luck wid your phased 40M array, whatever it ends up being. You will enjoy getting on the band much more when using directivity.

T

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Wise Words : "I'm as old as I've ever been... and I'm as young as I'll ever be."

There's nothing like an old dog.
K1JJ
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"Let's go kayaking, Tommy!" - Yaz


« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2009, 01:58:28 PM »

Much bigger difference than what I get with my beverage.  I have been toying with the idea of putting up either a wire yagi or maybe a 2 or 3 element quarter wave vertical array using TV push-up masts, aimed towards Europe.  60 quarter wave radials per pole on 40 would take a  lot less copper than the 120 quarter wave radials I installed with my 160m vertical.

Speaking of Europe, where are all the Euro-AM'ers now that 40m has been expanded on their side of the Atlantic?  I have worked only one station, from Belgium, when he switched his ricebox to AM.  We had a good two-way AM contact.  40m should offer a much better path than 75, but I have yet to hear any of the 3705 gang on 40m.

Also, where are the French stations?  I have heard one (on slopbucket) since they gained access to 7.1-7.2.  Maybe that fellow was right about how few ham antennas are seen when travelling through France these days.  I hear loads of Spanish and Italian stations, a few Brits, even fewer Germans and little else out of Europe.

But I have had  limited success carrying on meaningful contacts with the DX stations.  The band has quickly become dominated by the "hello-g'bye, ur five-nine, pse QSL, 73, QRZ?" type of activity from the certificate collectors. What little success I have had was at 0500-0700 GMT.  The paper collectors pretty much have it tied up in the early evening hours in N America.  These are the same people who are griping about AM on 7160.  They think they own the band when DX propagation is coming through and that everyone else should defer to their interests.


Hi Don,

Some years back I asked a number of 75M hams from France why there were so few of them too. I don't remember the answers, but find there is a lack of them on 75M too.


As for 40M antennas - can you run a tramline from your tower out to a far tree or to the ground?    Connect to it about 4 to 5 ropes and pulleys spaced about 25' apart each and have at it.   If you can adjust the pulleys for a level span at 80' (or higher) for an array, go with delta loops.  If lower, go with inverted vee elements.  Shorten the elements 2.7% when using inv vees.  (0% with flat els)

You will find this is the simplest system and is guaranteed to work. I think the optimum angle for Euro is about 20 degrees and the Yagi/loops at 1/2 wavelength high are perfect for this TO angle. A vertical is a little low for Europe most of the time.

In fact, yesterday the VKs at sunset were so high angle that they were 10db louder on my dipole at 30' compared to the three Yagis. So, 20 degrees is a good compromise.   


Yes, 40M is getting so crowded at dinner time, I heard USA guys complaining yesterday they cudn't find a clear freq to call CQ DX. Like finding a parking space, I found a QSO just ending and jumped in and held court for a coupla hours into Eur last night. 


I'll have no problem stirring up AM activity on 40M into Europe.  Get up that array and join me and we'll have some fun.  With the summer static approaching, a big f-b will be more important for receiving.

T

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Use an "AM Courtesy Filter" to limit transmit audio bandwidth  +-4.5 KHz, +-6.0 KHz or +-8.0 KHz when needed.  Easily done in DSP.

Wise Words : "I'm as old as I've ever been... and I'm as young as I'll ever be."

There's nothing like an old dog.
Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2009, 12:28:30 AM »

Don't worry about finding a clear frequency. Just pick one and call. If you are loud enough, it's yours. The dingleberry SSB USA ragchewers really should be above 7200 anyway, or at least during prime time.

Lots of countries on 40 meters. Here's what I've worked since 7 March in casual operating. Most of the EU countries were more than once.

Israel
Croatia
Morocco
Cuba
Portugal
Germany
Spain
Balearic Islands
Ceuta
Moldova
France
England
Hungary
Ecuador
Dominican Republic
Honduras
Italy
Sardinia
Dominica
Jordan
Hawaii
Alaska
Argentina
Bulgaria
Czech Republic
Belgium
Denmark
Netherlands
Brazil
Fernando de Noronha
Slovenia
Poland
Costa Rica
Russia
St. Kitts
Canada
Australia
New Zealand
Yugoslavia
Venezuala


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pe1mph
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pe1mph AM from Holland


« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2009, 03:13:02 AM »

Lots of countries on 40 meters. Here's what I've worked since 7 March in casual operating. Most of the EU countries were more than once.
Israel
Croatia
Morocco
Cuba
Portugal
Germany
Spain
Balearic Islands
Ceuta
Moldova
France
England
Hungary
Ecuador
Dominican Republic
Honduras
Italy
Sardinia
Dominica
Jordan
Hawaii
Alaska
Argentina
Bulgaria
Czech Republic
Belgium
Denmark
Netherlands
Brazil
Fernando de Noronha
Slovenia
Poland
Costa Rica
Russia
St. Kitts
Canada
Australia
New Zealand
Yugoslavia
Venezuala

That are many countries Steve!!!
I know some days ago PE1BB working Japan on 40 (SSB)!
Ofcourse in our new part (7100 - 7200).
But not in all European countries they may use these new part......
For example France!

Good DX,

PE1MPH
Henk, Dokkum
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