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Author Topic: Certegy- Your check is no good!  (Read 13596 times)
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WV Hoopie
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« on: March 22, 2009, 12:28:17 AM »

This is a heads up for all. The other day I went to Staples, my old printer was running out of steam, 1996 vintage, and it was time to purchase a new one. Tried to pay for the printer with a personal check and it was declined. This kinda Pi**ed me off, never had a bounced check or credit problems in my entire life, plenty of do,re,me in the bank. Staples should of given me a written reason on the spot, (by law) and they didn't.

Went back today after a little searching on the web to find out my rights in the state of Oygun. The manager at Staples gave me a form with an 800 number to call; Certegy. What a bummer, they wanted my drivers license #, bank account #, routing#, check #, birthdate, etc. All this and they couldn't give a reason why my check was declined! I asked them at least three times and all I got was a canned reply that was read from a script. The dude on the other end wanted me to sign up for some sort of "GOLD" approval so my next check would be approved. Crap on that idea!

Wow, after this nonsense I did a google on Certegy. This outfit has a hole bunch of people upset. Seems lots of stores are using them to approve checks and many are being declined for no reason! Check it out on the web, google is your friend.

Anyway, filed a couple of complaints with the AG of Oygun this evening; on line forms.

So, if the banks are no longer paying interest on savings and Certegy will not accept personal checks, why in the hell do we want to keep money in a bank or have reason to?Huh

Going to the bank Monday morning, early,  to avoid the rush.

wd8kdg
Craig


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WZ1M
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« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2009, 07:26:58 AM »

I had the very same thing happen to me. After a long and lengthy dicussion, found out that I had written three checks that day and all were oked by the clearing house. The fourth check for that day was declined because of "SUSPICIOUS ACCTIVITY".
Gary Cry
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Blaine N1GTU
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« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2009, 08:51:47 AM »

do yourself a favor and get one of those nifty bank debit/check cards.
you swipe it and it comes right out of your checking.
you can even set daily limits on it
the only time i write a check is when im forced to, like utilities or companies that do not have online billpay.
I am still on the checks that i ordered over 4 years ago

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KL7OF
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« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2009, 10:00:39 AM »

Cash....Never leave home without it!
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K1JJ
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« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2009, 10:34:38 AM »

do yourself a favor and get one of those nifty bank debit/check cards.
you swipe it and it comes right out of your checking.
you can even set daily limits on it
the only time i write a check is when im forced to, like utilities or companies that do not have online billpay.
I am still on the checks that i ordered over 4 years ago

Yep, I do the same thing - works great. A debit card is a necessity today.  Costs nothing to use, unlike a credit card.


One word of warning about debit cards.  If you're like me, you keep a minimum balance in the checking account cuz of no interest earned and the possibility of fraud.  If you happen to overdraw the debit card account (like forgetting about those monthly automated  electronic billings) the bank HAS to pay it by law.


I once forgot about the balance level and had three small overdrafts. (due to electronic billing I thought was canceled) It cost me $50 X 3 =$150 for overdraft "fee" charges.  I complained to the bank that I did not authorize these payments and wondered why they didn't decline them like a normal CC card, since it would make a negative balance.  They gave me the song and dance about the debit card law and I had to pay the "fees."   Outrageous cuz the overdraft was under $50 which loansharks out to be 10's of thousands % APR for the use of their money for 3 days... Shocked

So now I keep a heavier balance in there... sigh.


BTW, Blaine, your Behringer 9024 is working VERY FB!  The most useful device for both AM and ssb I've acquired in a long time.

T
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WV Hoopie
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« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2009, 11:22:55 AM »

Certegy is the same rogue company, who's employee William Sullivan, stole and then sold banking/credit card information of over 8.4 million Americans.

Where does this crazy financial outfit have the credibility to say my check is no good? Certegy does not have a clue what is in my checking account!

Time to take money out of the bank.

Craig,
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KA1ZGC
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« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2009, 11:52:57 AM »

When I opened my current account, I got one without any printed checks at all. Just the routing & account numbers, and a debit card.

If I need to pay someone by check, the bank will write it out and mail it for free. Everything else gets paid by bank card.

That probably won't last much longer, as I fully expect this bank to go casters-up. They're one of the "too big to fail" banks, which means it's almost guaranteed they will fail.  Undecided
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WQ9E
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« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2009, 12:04:39 PM »

As long as you pay your credit card balance in full every month (and you aren't using a card that charges annual fees and you should not do this), then credit cards don't cost you anything.  I don't use my debit card in stores because doing so exposes your bank account directly to the risk of fraud; the only time I use that card is for withdrawals from bank owned ATM machines.  I use a single credit card for everything including online bill pay and pay the balance in full online every month.  I wouldn't want my credit card info to be stolen but that is far preferable to having bank account info stolen and the more places that have access to your bank info then the greater potential for loss.

Most major credit card issuers do a very good job of fraud management in looking for unusual patterns.  A few years ago I was using pay at the pump when a message popped up requesting that I come inside to pay.  I had just purchased a number of tubes from two different former eastern block countries and that apparently triggered a fraud alert and they needed to determine that the real card owner had purchased these.  I provided verification and it was hassle free.  My only concern was this was shortly after the Oklahoma City bombing and my two purchases that day were 600 pounds of fertilizer from Farm and Fleet and I was at the station purchasing 50 gallons of diesel fuel for the truck and utility tractor.  I was hoping that didn't provide an additional alert and investigation!

My sister-in-law just recently went through the hassle of dealing with stolen debit card info (she loved using it in stores but has changed her mind given the experience).  In general, it seems much easier to protect your rights with a credit card company as opposed to your bank.  In the past year I have only written 5 checks, one for a new car and the other four were to various hams for pieces of gear.

I am perhaps overly risk averse.  I spent a number of years as a consultant to the National Insurance Crime Bureau and I have been doing research and consulting in enterprise risk management for over a decade.  But with all of the fraud and identity theft today a little paranoia is healthy.

Rodger WQ9E

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Rodger WQ9E
WB2YGF
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« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2009, 12:12:27 PM »

A debit card is a necessity today.  Costs nothing to use, unlike a credit card.
I haven't paid for a store purchase by check in almost 30 years.

I had a debit card once.  I left it in the ATM accidentally and someone took off with it and went on a 4,000 dollar shopping spree at the mall.  No pin is required to use those things and the cashiers never check ID or signature.  I had to file a report and wait a week to get my money back.  NEVER AGAIN.  Straight ATM cards only.

Not only do my credit cards NOT cost anything,  I have probably gotten $5,000 in free merchandise and meals with the free gift cards I get cashing in the tens of thousands of points I have earned.

99% of my bills are paid electronically or the bank cuts and mails a check for free.  I even have the bank mail a Christmas tip to the newspaper lady every year.  Cheesy

I love my bank.  Free bill pay, free checking with interest, low minimum balance, out of system ATM fees reimbursed, free coin machine, all their branches are open 7 days a week, plus 4 evenings a week.  They only close for Christmas and New Years, no "bank holidays".  Can't ask for much more.

TD bought them out and I understand TD Banknorth will be getting these great features too as they are converted to TD Bank's this fall.
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K1JJ
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« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2009, 12:40:35 PM »

Free CC?  Great.  The last time I had a credit card, it charged interest, even if I paid it off right away.   But that was over 10 years ago and looks like they've changed to the good.  I just use a debit card now.


BTW, according to Bank of America, their debit card is protected from fraud just like any CC card. I think they said something like $50 is the max you would have to pay if it got banged by someone else. I axed a few times to be sure cuz I had the same concerns as others here with debit card fraud.  I pay a fee for my checking acct, so gotta leave BOA and go to a bank like yours, John.  Already moved our CD money to smaller, more conservative banks.

Another thang - It's a crime the way some banks can legally charge folks 29%+ APR for CC debt while they pay 2% or less on the same money in savings and CDs.  They're now jacking up the rates in earnest on EXISTING CC debt before the laws are changed. Now that's loansharking I'd like to see stopped.  I understand the boys in Washington are talking about it, finally. 


Beautiful day - time to get outside for some antenna work... Grin

T
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WB2YGF
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« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2009, 01:11:33 PM »

Free CC?  Great.  The last time I had a credit card, it charged interest, even if I paid it off right away.
 
Definitely NOT the norm Tom.  I have had many CC's over 30 years and that's never happened to me.  The only trick some of them pull now is if you carry a balance over for one month, they average it over 2 months (2 cycle average daily balance method) so even if you pay it off, they hit you with interest for an extra month. 

That said, if you don't do credit cards, they may start you off with a "beginner" card and these might be crappy until you call them and tell them you won't stand for it! Cheesy.
BTW, according to Bank of America, their debit card is protected from fraud just like any CC card.

Mine was protected from fraud, it just took a week or so to get my money back.  Some banks are advertising a shorter recovery time now.
Another thang - It's a crime the way some banks can legally charge folks 29%+ APR for CC debt while they pay 2% or less on the same money in savings and CDs.  They're now jacking up the rates in earnest on EXISTING CC debt before the laws are changed. Now that's loansharking I'd like to see stopped. 

This is how they make their money...on people with poor financial management ability. Those who can least afford it, pay the most.  Kids (and even adults) need to be educated so they don't fall for this trap.

BTW, Tom (and everyone else), if you are 50 or older, make sure you upgrade to a 50+ checking account. It's usually a better deal.
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KA1ZGC
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« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2009, 01:29:18 PM »

I pay a fee for my checking acct, so gotta leave BOA and go to a bank like yours, John. 

Yep, my checking and savings are with BOA, too. No minimum balance on it (which comes in handy for me right about now), but they hit you with service fees if your payroll doesn't come by direct deposit. I keep nothing else with them.

I'm going to be pulling that money out very soon. I don't want my funds frozen while a bankruptcy court tries to figure out how to straighten out the mess they got themselves into. I really don't think they can remain solvent much longer the way they've been behaving, particularly if their stock price is any indication.

This, only a few months after some were theorizing that BOA might be on its way to a monopoly. So much for that conspiracy theory.
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k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2009, 02:48:37 PM »

I'm going to be pulling that money out very soon. I don't want my funds frozen while a bankruptcy court tries to figure out how to straighten out the mess they got themselves into. I really don't think they can remain solvent much longer the way they've been behaving, particularly if their stock price is any indication.

Isn't FDIC supposed to cover your deposits in case the bank fails?  I'm not sure if that would keep the problem you mentioned from happening, though.  And if the Gov't itself goes bankrupt (as it has, in reality, been for decades), would that protection mean anything?

I use BOA because my bank, that I have used for many years, was bought out by that company.  It started out as a local bank that stayed locally owned and operated for over a century.  Then about 30 years ago it was sold to another company, and dropped its historic name and took on the name of a corporate chain.  Soon another, then another.  Since then it has gone through 3 or 4 additional name changes.  For a while, back in the 80's, I couldn't keep track of the name of the bank because it changed so often.  I found myself using checks that had the wrong company logo on them, as many as two name changes ago, but they still accepted them, since the account information remained the same.  BOA is only the latest name change.  I'm  looking for a new one any time now, as BOA goes under.  My bank wasn't the only one; every other local bank in town has changed its name just about as many times as mine.

Something that really pisses me off about banks and overdrafts is the way they deliberately record withdrawals in the order that allows them charge you the maximum amount for overdraft fees.  Say, for example, you have $100 in a joint account with your wife. You use the debit card for a $10 purchase, then a $5 one, then a $20 one.  All three should have cleared, and left $65 in the account.  But your wife is unaware of your purchases, and later that day, she assumes the full $100 is still in the account, and makes a purchase, and somehow with sales tax added, the total amount comes to $100.01.  You would expect to be hit with one overdraft fee on that last check. But it doesn't work that way. The bank does not deduct the withdrawn money in the chronological order in which it was submitted; instead, they wait until the end of the day and deduct all the withdrawals in descending order of the size of the withdrawal, always with the larger amounts first.  Your wife's 100.01 withdrawal puts the account in the red right away, so they hit you up for FOUR overdraft fees instead of one, even though there was money in the account when you made all three of your purchases.  To me this is nothing less than criminal theft.

Another gimmick is that certain stores may somehow put an immediate hold on your account when you make a purchase until the check or debit purchase clears. But they do not put the hold on the exact amount of the purchase; it is some arbitrary number,  like $50, even if the purchase only amounted to $10.  So you have $50 in the bank, and make two purchases, one for $20 and another for $15, knowing you have enough to cover both purchases. But for that first $20 purchase, the store puts a hold on your account for $50, which ties up the entire account. The bank then charges you an overdraft fee for the second purchase even though you had plenty of money in the account to cover both purchases.

My debit card can be used either as "credit" or "debit", but if used as credit, the money still comes right out of the account immediately just the same as with debit.

I wish stores would post the prices on items to include sales tax.  They rarely do that; usually just the basic price is posted and then tax is added at the checkout.  This makes it very difficult to keep track of exactly how much you spend as you shop, unless you carry a calculator with you, and even then, the bottom line sometimes ends up different from what you calculated.  Each item should be marked with the actual price including  tax, or better still, dual figures, the basic price and the price plus tax. 

Wouldn't it be a lot easier for both the store and the customer to simply put a large notice in bold letters at a conspicuous place near the entrance to the store stating "ALL PRICES INCLUDE (X) PER CENT STATE AND LOCAL SALES TAX", and at the end of the day, calculate how much is owed to the state revenue agency based on the appropriate percentage of gross receipt?  It would avoid the hassle of calculating tax on each item at checkout, and the customer would immediately know precisely how much money he would be spending for a purchase when looking at the item sitting on the shelf.

I have seen only one or two stores do that, and then it is usually only for a day or two, when the store has a special "Tax-Free Sale" in which the store entices customers by picking up the tab for the sales tax during the sale period.

It is just this kind of hassle that makes me hate to go shopping, and feel proud to declare myself a "piss-poor consumer".
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
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WB2YGF
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« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2009, 03:20:15 PM »

Something that really pisses me off about banks and overdrafts is the way they deliberately record withdrawals in the order that allows them charge you the maximum amount for overdraft fees.  Say, for example, you have $100 in a joint account with your wife. You use the debit card for a $10 purchase, then a $5 one, then a $20 one.  All three should have cleared, and left $65 in the account.  But your wife is unaware of your purchases, and later that day, she assumes the full $100 is still in the account, and makes a purchase, and somehow with sales tax added, the total amount comes to $100.01.  You would expect to be hit with one overdraft fee on that last check. But it doesn't work that way. The bank does not deduct the withdrawn money in the chronological order in which it was submitted; instead, they wait until the end of the day and deduct all the withdrawals in descending order of the size of the withdrawal, always with the larger amounts first.  Your wife's 100.01 withdrawal puts the account in the red right away, so they hit you up for FOUR overdraft fees instead of one, even though there was money in the account when you made all three of your purchases.  To me this is nothing less than criminal theft.

Another gimmick is that certain stores may somehow put an immediate hold on your account when you make a purchase until the check or debit purchase clears. But they do not put the hold on the exact amount of the purchase; it is some arbitrary number,  like $50, even if the purchase only amounted to $10.  So you have $50 in the bank, and make two purchases, one for $20 and another for $15, knowing you have enough to cover both purchases. But for that first $20 purchase, the store puts a hold on your account for $50, which ties up the entire account. The bank then charges you an overdraft fee for the second purchase even though you had plenty of money in the account to cover both purchases.

My debit card can be used either as "credit" or "debit", but if used as credit, the money still comes right out of the account immediately just the same as with debit.
Well Don, seems to me you have 4 choices:

* Keep tempting fate with your high risk behaviour.  Grin
* Keep a larger reserve in checking.
* Sign up for overdraft protection. (they still charge a fee)
* Use credit cards instead of debit cards (my favorite)
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2009, 04:11:03 PM »

Quote
Isn't FDIC supposed to cover your deposits in case the bank fails?  I'm not sure if that would keep the problem you mentioned from happening, though.  And if the Gov't itself goes bankrupt (as it has, in reality, been for decades), would that protection mean anything?

In short no, since the head of the FDIC recently said it would be out of money within a year or so. Then there's the larger government solvency problem.........
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W1RKW
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« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2009, 04:41:33 PM »

I once used my debit/credit bank card to purchase fuel 2 times in the same day, filling up both cars.  On the 2nd attempt to fill up, the card was declined by the bank because they considered it suspicious activity.  I didn't have a problem with it and welcomed it, just a very minor inconvenience.  AMEX has done the same to me on a few occasions. I never write checks in the store.  I don't like it when I have to wait for someone to fill out a check so I don't do it for that reason, especially since I have the bank card. And I agree, do not use your PIN number or debit option in a place of business except for the bank ATM and sign for the purchase instead.

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« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2009, 09:50:46 PM »

You might want to check into your debit card and who gets screwed if someone uses your number.
anytime I'm worried about a purchase a get, or request a USPS money order.
Some clown bounces my check for no reason they don't need my business.
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K3ZS
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« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2009, 10:25:54 AM »

I wish stores would post the prices on items to include sales tax.  They rarely do that; usually just the basic price is posted and then tax is added at the checkout.  This makes it very difficult to keep track of exactly how much you spend as you shop, unless you carry a calculator with you, and even then, the bottom line sometimes ends up different from what you calculated.  Each item should be marked with the actual price including  tax, or better still, dual figures, the basic price and the price plus tax. 

Wouldn't it be a lot easier for both the store and the customer to simply put a large notice in bold letters at a conspicuous place near the entrance to the store stating "ALL PRICES INCLUDE (X) PER CENT STATE AND LOCAL SALES TAX", and at the end of the day, calculate how much is owed to the state revenue agency based on the appropriate percentage of gross receipt?  It would avoid the hassle of calculating tax on each item at checkout, and the customer would immediately know precisely how much money he would be spending for a purchase when looking at the item sitting on the shelf.

I have seen only one or two stores do that, and then it is usually only for a day or two, when the store has a special "Tax-Free Sale" in which the store entices customers by picking up the tab for the sales tax during the sale period.

It is just this kind of hassle that makes me hate to go shopping, and feel proud to declare myself a "piss-poor consumer".


I Pennsylvania it is illegal to have prices include sales tax.    The state liquor stores were the only ones who could, but they don't do that now either.

When you rent a car they put a big hold on your credit card until it is returned.  At a gas station in Florida, they had a maximum charge of $20 for gas.    That didn't go far at $4 a gallon.    You had to fill up, complete the transaction, and then do it over again.
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k4kyv
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« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2009, 02:23:08 AM »

I Pennsylvania it is illegal to have prices include sales tax.   

Looks like one of those laws designed for the sole purpose of giving the regulators something to do.  Like in TN, the regulation that makes it illegal for a liquor store owner to allow a customer to use the store's restroom or the one that makes it illegal to sell the customer a corkscrew to open the wine.

I wonder if the store owner couldn't just post dual prices, one listing the basic price, and just below it, the price including tax.  Why do these assholes want to make it as inconvenient as they can for the customer, anyway?

I recall in France just before they changed over from the franc to the Euro, everything was dual priced, in francs and in Euros, to get the public used to the new money before it was actually issued. 

They have a national sales tax called the TVA, which ran about 22% when I was there.  All prices included the tax, but each price tag said "22% TVA included". 

And you thought TN's 9.5%  sales tax was high.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
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« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2009, 03:15:03 PM »

I was traveling down south in Feb and stopped at a Shoney's and would you believe they don't accept American Express travels checks anymore!! They said they were burned by some counterfiet ones. I never had one of those refused anywhere.

Steve
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N1IDU
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« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2009, 09:31:54 PM »

I've had my local bank debit card/checks denied for no apparent reason. Verisign is known for this too. Almost got stuck in Fla. with no way to pay for a hotel! Lucky we had our BofA card for just that reason. Seems like small bank checks get the boot from the verification company Angry Now I always travel with alternative forms of payment...
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« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2009, 11:33:05 PM »

I pay for everything with amex green card. no interest, pay the bill every month, it is $65 per year. allows me to pay for something ahead of payday from time to time. Yearly statement in excel format for tax deductions.

The debit card is only for ATMs and the occasional snoot that won't accept AMEX.
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« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2009, 11:55:06 PM »

I pay for everything with amex green card. no interest, pay the bill every month

I refuse to use a Debit Card, period.  With off-line transactions, no pin required, your account can be drained in the course of a day if your number gets stolen.

I'd rather convince Amex that I didn't owe them money than try to convince my bank to put my money back in my account.  Especially when I still have uncleared checks for the electric company, the cable company, the gas company, ... all of which would bounce if some pogue empties the account the day the uncleared checks hit.  That just multiplies the pain.

Don't take Amex?  I carry a paid-off-every-month VISA just for the occasion.

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WV Hoopie
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« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2009, 11:56:08 AM »

Been reading the replies and thinking about how things have changed in the past years. So......

At one time the checking account was used for the family bills, etc. It is a system where if 10 marbles go in, only 10 will come out. Or the friendly neighborhood bank adds a penalty. The retail store could call the friendly bank and ask if Joe or Jane was good for the amount of the check. The 10 marbles in & 10 marbles out system kept most of us living within a budget, bought only a house we could afford. 

Seems as though the thought of a budget or what it means isn't taught in our school system or at home.

Then there was the guy down the street where those that fell upon hard times could borrow a few bucks. More than likely Guido would loan a person money, but the interest rate was about 20% and Guido was known to break a few legs. The school that I attended taught us about Guido the loan shark, stay away from him. School also taught how to budget and other useful things to get us through life.

Yes, times have changed. The credit card requires NO marbles in, intices the card holder to spend more than their income can bear and charges that same interest as Guido!

The technology is there to verify a credit card, so why isn't this technology used to verify a checking account? My thoughts are, this line of economics has kept the system alive for a decade or two, only to run out of steam.

Our present administration has part of the answer and only time will tell; fours letters, (jobs). What I see missing is manufacturing/industrial jobs which pay a living wage. With a living wage that credit thing goes away, left only for fools and Guido. Give me any job which pays a living wage and the headaches will go away. We didn't get here overnight, I noticed the steel mills of the rust belt start to crumble in the early 70's, textiles in the northeast, furniture & carpet in the southeast, the list goes on.

Without credit, (think fail banks, AIG) we would of bit the dust long ago. Credit ain't gonna get us out of the present mess. The middle class isn't making a living wage. Mirrors under the nose will still be needed to see if the applicant is alive.

Certegy........just another insurance company like AIG.

This is how I understand it.


Craig,
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