Sirius XM

[flintstone mop]

I know there was a thread about Sirius/XM filing for Chapter 11 here, but my question is about the financial thinking on the part of XM to 'buy-out' Sirius and now XM is in financial trouble.
Any money knowledgeable folks shed some light?
Would it have been better to let Sirius sink??

What seems to be the fear of letting something that's NOT working fail???
Fred

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Answer is probably in these two paragraphs

From: Sirius XM Prepares for Possible Bankruptcy, dated 2/10/09. Entire article is here: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/11/technology/companies/11radio.html?_r=1&ref=technology

Mr. Karmazin staked the success of the merger on nearly $400 million in annual cost savings and the potential to gain subscribers through deals with auto companies to put satellite radios into cars.

But satellite radio failed to win over many younger listeners, and competition from other sources slowed subscriber growth.

[W2ZE]

Also, Sirius bought out XM, not the other way around.

The cost saving just weren't that substantial, and the merger took alot longer than expected. The sat casters had/have a good business plan, just that when both were competing against each other, they both way overpaid for content. Subsequently, they took on far more debt than they could afford. in order for them to even turn a profit, they would need approx. 60 million subscribers.
strictly my opinion, but...
i think bankruptcy would have been better. There really is no stock value to protect thier shareholders from (stock is trading around $.15 a share, off of the 52 wk high of 3.83) protected them from a hostile takeover from Charlie Ergen at Echostar, and they could have renegotiated all of thier debt payments and contracts with talent/content providers. right now the biggest thing killing them is the cost of content. If they could significantly reduce that cost, and then start paying thier creditors, the stock value would climb, even in this economy, which they could use to payoff more debt. As it stands, thier deal with Liberty media only dilutes the company even further, and is just prolonging the inevitable. the debt they have still needs to be re-structured.

[W2XR]

Gee, I hope that they continue to broadcast. If they do not remain solvent, then I hope that they continue to broadcast under protection from their creditors. I say this as I just purchased a new-in-the box Polk Audio XM Radio home tuner for our stereo system. I bought the tuner as a close-out and at a fantastic price; I hope the seller does'nt know something here that I don't know!

My guess is the service will remain uninterrupted. There is still an enormous base of Sirius and XM Radio subscribers out there, and most of them I would imagine are quite happy with the existing programming. To this end, I'm sure that a buyer can be found for the service who can hopefully run it at a profit. I personally can always find great music to listen to on either Sirius or XM, and we almost never listen to the terrestrial broadcasters any longer.

A question for the board; what is the digital audio standard used by XM; is it MP-3, CD red book, etc.? I have no idea.

Thanks & 73,

Bruce

[W2ZE]

Bruce,
It is our (ibiquity Digital Corp.) PAC codec. Sirius XM pays us a royalty to use it.

I also think you're right that it will survive under some incarnation or another, unless Charlie Ergen gets it. he want s the infrastructure, nothing more.

[W1JS]

WSJ, today:
"Malone Swoops Down on Sirius XM"
John Malone's Liberty Media Corp. scooped Sirius XM Radio Inc. from the clutches of bankruptcy Tusday with a last-minute deal...

Basically, Liberty loaned Sirius XM $540 million to keep them out of bankruptcy for a 40% stake.  & such a deal: 15% interest 

[W2XR]

Bruce,
It is our (ibiquity Digital Corp.) PAC codec. Sirius XM pays us a royalty to use it.

I also think you're right that it will survive under some incarnation or another, unless Charlie Ergen gets it. he want s the infrastructure, nothing more.

I'm not familiar with this codec. What is the encoding/decoding standard that these providers (XM and Sirius) utilize? Is it MP-3, CD redbook, DVD audio (which I really doubt!!), etc.

Thanks & 73,

Bruce

[WB2YGF]

I'm not familiar with this codec. What is the encoding/decoding standard that these providers (XM and Sirius) utilize? Is it MP-3, CD redbook, DVD audio (which I really doubt!!), etc.

Thanks & 73,

Bruce

PAC codec is used for Sirus.  XM is based on AAC

The key to XM's outstanding sound quality is CT-aacPlus, a third-generation audio encoding technology. CT-aacPlus is the combination of Advanced Audio Coding (AAC), a highly efficient global standard combining the work of the world's foremost experts on perceptual audio encoding -- AT&T, Dolby, Fraunhofer, and Sony - with Coding Technologies' revolutionary Spectral Band Replication (SBRTM) technology.

Neural Audio created a customized version of its process for XM, designed to enhance CT-aacPlus results by optimizing temporal and spectral elements prior to encoding, improving soundstage clarity, and increasing intelligibility. The unique combination of CT-aacPlus and Neural Audio algorithms enable XM to deliver a consistent, superior sound experience.

In addition, Neural Audio's "stereo transcoder" algorithm preserves the imaging and spatiality of stereo and surround-sound content that XM broadcasts. So XM customers with matrix-style surround sound equipment, including Dolby technology, can receive a full surround sound experience. 

http://www.xmradio.com/about/fast-facts/sound.xmc

...Now about XM radio broadcast.
What is known about it?
XM use AAC + v 2 as an encoding standard.
What does it mean? It means AAC (Advance Audio Coding), accepted in MPEG-4 also with m4a audio format, and SBR (Sub Band Replication).
The m4a sound format, and accordingly AAC, is already known. What is SBR? SBR is patented method for sound reconstruction using information about its spectrum....

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=60489

A blog entry about differences between XM an Sirus encoding:

http://satelliteradiotechworld.blogspot.com/2007/07/technical-highlights-of-xmsirius.html

[WBear2GCR]

I can sum it up in a nutshell, the programming is nothing to write home about.

Recently I rented a buggy that had the XM/Sirrus programming. It just isn't that good. Period.

Yeah there are some sort of interesting channels... but it ain't that good.
Howard I like, but he's best on once a day... live.
And ya can't listen to that or the comedy with kidz in the car...

The rest, pleh.

               _-_-bear

[KL7OF]

The blues channel...my favorite...it has changed  (for the worse) since the meger/buyout...I'm not renewing at $125/year...Comes in fine in the Tum Tum winter but I can't get it in the Alaska summer....Sats are below the horizon....

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

There is still an enormous base of Sirius and XM Radio subscribers out there, and most of them I would imagine are quite happy with the existing programming.

If it were enormous, they wouldn't be tettering on bankruptcy. Their business model has been flawed for quite a few years. It boils down to not enough subscribers (at least as the rate they are charging) to cover their infrastructure costs. Paying huge bucks to one or two personalities also didn't help. They basically cut their own throats and will never be able to compete with land based 3G and 4G wireless providers.

[WQ9E]

I am going to let my subscription to XM expire.  The idiotic DJ to music ratio has gotten much worse after the merger and I can get that for free via terrestrial radio.  I have also noticed a fair number of audio glitches in recent months that were very rare previously.  My new CTS fully integrates my Ipod into the touch screen audio/nav system and it plugs easily into the system in my pickup although for that I have to use the Ipod istself for control.  In recent months about the only thing I have listened to on XM is the old time radio channel and I can buy thousands of MP3 recordings of these shows from Ebay for the price of an XM subscription.

It would be interesting to break out the "true" subscriber base as opposed to the total including those who have either a free 90 day or 1 year initial subscription with the new vehicle purchase and the rental car fleets with active subscriptions.  This isn't a company I would want to own a piece of, especially during an economic slowdown.

[flintstone mop]

I think Bruce was asking the data rate that is being sent from the satellite. Throwing out codec names doesn't easily translate to the data rate, ie CD audio, 44.1, or MP3 has different sampling rates.
And being it is a digital stream on an RF carrier, my question, is it equivalent to a DS3 or DS2? Or is it like the data stream from high def TV??
I think I have read on this board that the music channels are around 96kbs and the talk channels are a lower rate and the WX and traffic channels are even lower They still call it audio............ha!!!! Really bad audio there!!!!
And I agree that the merger was not goodness. Some of the DJ's suck..........worse than corporate radio

Fred

[WB2YGF]

I am going to let my subscription to XM expire.  The idiotic DJ to music ratio has gotten much worse after the merger and I can get that for free via terrestrial radio. 

I don't know what your terrestrial radio is like, but around here the DJ to music ratio is still 100 times worse than XM.  My blood pressure would go up at least 10 points if I ever had to listen to terrestrial radio again.  The radio antenna from my car is stored in the trunk.

I know I could create my own "radio stations" in mp3, but I'm too lazy to keep the playlist up to date or fresh.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

The composite XM signal is about 800 kbps. But it is split between two separate carriers that are combined on the receive end. This two carrier arrangement is replicated on several other carriers for diversity. This 800 kbos then breaks out into 100 channels, each at 8 kbps. These 8 kbps channels are actually two 4 kbps channels. These 4k channels are put together in amounts ranging from 4 to 64 kbps to make up the actual channel you tune to on your XM receiver. Various encoding and related data rates are used depending on the original input (voice, music, data). I think there is even one channel that is running 5.1 surround sound, which probably requires the full 64 kbps allocation.

Not sure how Surrius works but I'm guessing it's similar. They may have to do something special to account for the HEO sats they use.

[flintstone mop]

Thanks HUZ,
What a neat way to break down a lot of channels by using different RF carriers. And then the magic of 'codecs'.
I think this is where some folks have sensitive hearing and can hear certain artifacts in the program material. For everyday listening it's fine. But for the critical ear, it may hurt a little.

Fred

[W9RAN]

I'll have to differ with my friend Rodger on this one...I've subscribed to XM for years for one primary reason - it was the only place I could hear "real radio" aka "Sixties on Six" -  with its fast-talking DJs, 60's music, classic PAMS jingles, and all the production bits that made what I'll always think of as the golden age of pop music what it was.  Sixties radio was a vibe and a presentation - not just the music, which a $10 MP3 player on shuffle can do.   I also enjoy the OTR and "Book Radio" (aka the much cooled old XM name of "Sonic Theater") also, and wish there were more spoken word programming.  These are not expensive channels to program, because the value comes from talented and innovative who love what they do, not formulas or "stars" with multi-million dollar contracts.

TALK radio is what I can get anywhere on the dial, and could easily live without on satellite radio.  And I'm not a sports person, but I won't bash those who are.   XM had it right, Sirius has been systematically ruining the very thing they acquired, and they're now paying the price for their arrogance.

My real point is, satellite radio was (and maybe still is) a narrowcast medium, where unique program presentations like the "Sixties on Six" could thrive in a subscription mode without interference from consultants who insist that 100% of what is played be recognizable by 100% of the listeners 100% of the time.  Aka "boring and repetitious".

I'm glad that Liberty stepped in, avoiding BK and doubtlessly further staff cuts.   But BK would have allowed restructuring and breaking of the obscenely expensive contracts with Howard Stern, Martha Stewart, etc which IMHO don't fit the business model. 

[WQ9E]

Hi Bob,

No real disagreement, the old XM channel 6 was great and as a child of the 70's I really like that decades channel also.  I grew up near New Orleans and both WRNO and WNOE were great album rock stations in the seventies with excellent DJ staff.  Marvelous Matt or whatever he calls himself on the "new" Sirius/XM 7 personifies the annoying idiot style of DJ and the playlists have shrunk considerably in variety.  I listen to a lot of different styles of music and until recently XM had a lot of great channels but I found myself using it far less after the changes from the merger.

There are definitely some good and entertaining DJ's, but for the most part Sirius hasn't found them.  Perhaps if they weren't paying Howard and Martha so much they could improve the quality in other areas.  But as one of my colleagues noted, at least Rush isn't on there yet.

Right now my computer is hooked up to a little AM transmitter and I am listening to the Shadow through my "new" Breting 14AX-Old time radio as it was meant to be!

Rodger WQ9E

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

How does what is on another channel affect the channel you want to listen to? So what if there is sports, talk or gawd even Rush on another channel, as long as you can listen to Sixties on 6? Isn't that what XM is all about, choice?

I'll have to differ with my friend Rodger on this one...I've subscribed to XM for years for one primary reason - it was the only place I could hear "real radio" aka "Sixties on Six" -  with its fast-talking DJs, 60's music, classic PAMS jingles, and all the production bits that made what I'll always think of as the golden age of pop music what it was.  Sixties radio was a vibe and a presentation - not just the music, which a $10 MP3 player on shuffle can do.   I also enjoy the OTR and "Book Radio" (aka the much cooled old XM name of "Sonic Theater") also, and wish there were more spoken word programming.  These are not expensive channels to program, because the value comes from talented and innovative who love what they do, not formulas or "stars" with multi-million dollar contracts.

TALK radio is what I can get anywhere on the dial, and could easily live without on satellite radio.  And I'm not a sports person, but I won't bash those who are.   XM had it right, Sirius has been systematically ruining the very thing they acquired, and they're now paying the price for their arrogance.

My real point is, satellite radio was (and maybe still is) a narrowcast medium, where unique program presentations like the "Sixties on Six" could thrive in a subscription mode without interference from consultants who insist that 100% of what is played be recognizable by 100% of the listeners 100% of the time.  Aka "boring and repetitious".

I'm glad that Liberty stepped in, avoiding BK and doubtlessly further staff cuts.   But BK would have allowed restructuring and breaking of the obscenely expensive contracts with Howard Stern, Martha Stewart, etc which IMHO don't fit the business model. 

[John K5PRO]

My new car came with Sirrius for 6 months and I have checked it out. Not sure I can take 24 hours of Dead or Elvis or Bruce, but the comedy and some of the old classic music is fair. The audio quality from the codec is noticably worse than the AAC from my IPOD that also plugs into this car. I give up, and listen to mostly local FM stations as the programming is home done.

[Opcom]

So far I see alot of reasons not to buy an entertainment radio that requires a paid $ub$cription in order to use it.

[Ed/KB1HYS]

If it was worth it, people would have hacked it by now... 

[WB2YGF]

So far I see alot of reasons not to buy an entertainment radio that requires a paid $ub$cription in order to use it.

You "pay" either way.  Either you listen to endless terrestrial radio commercials that fund the cost of distribution, or you pay a subscription to avoid having to listen to commercials. 

The only way to avoid it is to listen to your own material,  listen to Internet radio, or listen to the cable/DirecTV music you might be paying for anyway.

The only other distribution model is PBS, and listening to them beg for money for several weeks out of the year should be outlawed as torture worse than waterboarding.

[WB2YGF]

NEW YORK (AP) -- Sirius XM Radio Inc. on Friday said it has closed the $530 million investment deal with Liberty Media Corp. and extended the maturity of certain debt coming due in two months, to 2010.

The completion of the deals gives Sirius XM about a year's breathing room....

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Sirius-closes-530-million-apf-14572714.html

[KB2WIG]

 "  The only other distribution model is PBS, and listening to them beg for money for several weeks out of the year should be outlawed as torture worse than waterboarding.  "

The local NPR station, WRVO, has a Phoneless February..... you can donate money, and therebuy reduce the amount of time they bombard you with a pledge drive.


klc