Appears the Heathkit copyright police are still busy

[WB2YGF]

Just ordered and received a PDF manual for my new (to me) monitor scope on CD.  Good thing I got it while I had the chance.



email from eBay:

Thanks for bidding on the listing:

120362385469 - Heathkit SB-614 Station Monitor Scope Manual

Unfortunately, the item is no longer available for purchase. This is disappointing for everyone, but sometimes it's necessary to protect you as a buyer.

There are three main reasons why we remove listings:

-- The listing doesn't follow eBay guidelines.
-- The item isn't allowed on eBay or can only be listed under certain conditions.
-- The listing contains pictures or words in it that may have created copyright or trademark issues.

If the seller is able to fix the problem and relist the item, we hope you'll bid on it again.

We apologize for the inconvenience and have many other great deals on eBay. Just go to http://www.ebay.com to continue your shopping today. We hope to see you soon.

Thank you,

eBay, Inc.

[Jim, W5JO]

You might try Vintage Manuals.  They show to have it for sale. 
http://www.vintagemanuals.com/

[Sam KS2AM]

I found it at the ManualMan !


http://www.manualman.com/index.cfm?v_link=product_detail&v_key=75082&v_manufacturer_id=255

[WB2YGF]

Thanks guys.  Guess I was not clear that I already had the manual on CD.  eBay pulled the listing AFTER I got it.

[k4kyv]

I can see that selling a CD or a scanned or photocopied manual might be considered a copyright violation, but selling an original paper version of the manual would not, any more than selling a used book, music CD or vinyl record.

[WB2YGF]

I can see that selling a CD or a scanned or photocopied manual might be considered a copyright violation, but selling an original paper version of the manual would not, any more than selling a used book, music CD or vinyl record.

Correct.  All the original manuals are still on eBay. The CD's were pulled.  I would have preferred an original, but there were none for sale.  Look for original manuals to suddenly increase in value.  Look for more "underground" PDF swapping.  If I had known this was going to happen, I would have downloaded the whole BAMA Heath section.

[k7yoo]

What is really stupid about it is that the new owners are not prepared to sell manuals. It appears that they are in it for the Hi-FI amplifier part of the biz.
But wait there is more!
Go to the UK website where you can still download manuals. I believe that Heath in the UK was a separate company so perhaps this is the reason.  I recently downloaded an HP 23A schematic that I needed with no problem.
Skip

[K3ZS]

The UK Heaths were not exactly the same as the US counterparts.    Differences in tubes, transformers and some circuitry changes.

[w3jn]

But that site has manuals for US equipment.

[flintstone mop]

WOW
I got my CD just in time!!!!!!
What's the deal anyway? Is there an owner still alive on this Earth?? What break throughs did Heath ever do in electronics that would give them an edge on the market??
Most of the stuff was price-driven design that would make a hobbyist happy. It may not pass tougher tech specs as store-bought assembled units.
Toooooo many lawyers around.

Fred

[Ed/KB1HYS]

Simple really, some one (Data Professionals) thought they could make a buck, and had the cash to offer for the residue in Benton Harbor.  They got it, and now exercise the copyrights.  In the process giving the rest of us a good sharp stick in the eye.

I wonder if they renewed the copyrights on the older equipment, that may be beyound the active period?

I wonder if folks could forward their stuff to an offshore server? Seems that would be a way to keep it access with out US copyright laws.

I wonder if they will actually make back their original investment? I doubt it, but I hope that when they realize that they won't they don't just trash the lot...

[Jim, W5JO]

After all this falderaw started, I spoke to Gary, W7FG about it.  His story was that when Dastryom (sic?) bough Heath, they loaded what they wanted and drove away leaving the manuals.  A couple of different people took them home and did who knows what with them.

Well after he was up and running, the widow of one of those guys contacted him about the fact she owned the rights to the manuals and provided some paper work to that effect.  So did the other guy that had some of the manuals about that  same time frame.

  He ran it by a copyright law firm that was one of his clients.  They told him to forget it, the claims were unclear and unprovable in court.  That was in the 90s sometime.  Well here we are today and the new guy has a document posted that he claims includes the intellectual rights.  If you read that agreement, you will notice it does not specify the manuals and is rather vague.

It is, however, cheaper for Ken, K4XL to remove them from the website rather than spend a bunch of money defending himself.  As for the over seas servers, I would guess a copyright here is good there too because of treaties and agreements?  i.e. Beatles music and the like.

I do know that the guy who bought Gary's business is still selling the full manual.  I wonder if the new "owner" contacted him? 

[k4kyv]

It is, however, cheaper for Ken, K4XL to remove them from the website rather than spend a bunch of money defending himself. 

Yep, justice is a commodity that is bought and sold for a price.

[KA8WTK]

I AM NOT A LAWYER!

It seems to me that companies spend a lot of time and effort protecting their copy written property because if they don't, they lose the copyright protection.  For many years Heath did not defend their copyrights for the manuals. They effectively became public domain. (Any lawyers out there who can shed some light?)
I think, if the new guy faced a serious legal battle, he would lose. But, who is going to spend the time and money to try?

Bill

[W1RKW]

This is supposedly the agreement for the ownership transfer.  I find it highly suspect considering there is no date on the document. And the pen and ink change at the top is not dated either.  This looks like it was done in someones garage.

Update 2/26/09: I thought I included the link shown below to what I think is a bogus document based on what I stated above. For some reason the link I posted  initially did not show up. I don't know if this was an oversight on my part and I did not include the link in my initial posting or if it was removed.  I tend to think I spaced and didn't include the link when I posted. If the link was removed nobody was notified of the removal.

http://www.tech-systems-labs.com/pdf-files/Agreement.pdf

[Opcom]

There's a guy right here in town that scanned the older sams fotofacts and sells them. sams sent him a desist letter, his mouthpiece told him to burn it. He's not been sued. Each document is different. I dream of scanning "the radio handbook" through 1950 and posting them for free access, and have several spares or damaged ones I would willingly chop. But no time. Who would do it?

[K7NCR]

I did download a PDF of the "Radio Handbook" from somewhere,,, Its on the main house machine, too many pages to print al at once!
Norm K7NCR

[Ed/KB1HYS]

It is, however, cheaper for Ken, K4XL to remove them from the website rather than spend a bunch of money defending himself. 

Yep, justice is a commodity that is bought and sold for a price.

Well Don, didn't you know what was in those scales that blindfolded lady holds...  Gold, silver, power, sex, anything that humans can desire all weighed against a single idea...    Is it any wonder why the the wealthiest class in our culture is called "Lawmaker"?

[WBear2GCR]

New info here:
http://electronicdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=20689&pg=2

Apparently this guy does NOT actually own very much more than the file cabinets with the manuals he has already!!

Ha!

             _-_-bear

[WB3JOK]

Remember that (like any such periodical) Electronic Design probably has a long lead time for publication... when was the purchase of the manual rights completed? The author and editor may not have known about the current situation...

[WBear2GCR]

Heath Educational did not sell their rights - they came from the original Heath division of Zenith.

Imho, the person who claimed to own the rights, and sold the old file cabinets, did not own the rights, and only owned the file cabinets, since his possession stemmed from a defunct source, whereas Heath Educational stemmed from Zenith in continuity!

                  _-_-bear

[WB2YGF]

Heath Educational did not sell their rights - they came from the original Heath division of Zenith.

Imho, the person who claimed to own the rights, and sold the old file cabinets, did not own the rights, and only owned the file cabinets, since his possession stemmed from a defunct source, whereas Heath Educational stemmed from Zenith in continuity!

                  _-_-bear

Then please explain why Heath Educational Systems no longer sells manuals and they direct you to another company:

Photocopied Manual are no longer available at Heathkit Educational Systems. Go to www.d8apro.com if you are interested in purchasing a heathkit manual.

Then when you get to the Data Professionals site it says:

Press Release
October 2008

Data Professionals of Pleasanton California has purchased the Copyrights and existing inventory of all legacy Heathkit product documentation from Heath Company of Benton Harbor Michigan for an undisclosed amount. The new company will make copies of the original legacy manuals available to the marketplace via its web site and through eBay and PayPal.

[WBear2GCR]

Ah ha!

The plot thickens!!

Holmes??

            _-_-bear