smart metering -your new electric bill! but at what cost for noise?

[Opcom]

www.smarttexas.com

Well they are ramming it down our throats. Smart Metering - It's for your own good!! They will even track my electrical usage at 15 minute intervls, for my convenience! The Spymeter(tm) is coming soon!

smart for them maybe. Just think, they will be able to profile every load I have. And it's a 2-way communication.

For my part, I am using various military receivers covering 18KHz to 1GHz and I wait to see what kind of trash the new meter, and all the ones on the neighbors' houses too, will spew out into the aether and along the wires.

I'd like to know what frequency bands this NPL (narrowband over power lines) spymeter scheme is using.

[W1RKW]

We have I think just the one way digital meters here in CT.  They created quite a crap storm with some customers. 

I wonder with these 2way jobs if they will create BPL or more BPL type noise. As someone said in a previous thread, "there goes the noise floor".

[WA1GFZ]

I don't notice anything coming off my remote read meter?
I would think they would store the data and dump it when the meter reader comes around. The point is to get you to shift heavy useage to off peak times by offereing a lower rate during off peak.

[Ed/KB1HYS]

Find a way to get off the grid, or only use the grid as backup...

There is atleast one fellow on the air and I think this site who is off the grid.

But then they will probably outlaw that too as they don't want you to be independant..

[KD6VXI]

I don't notice anything coming off my remote read meter?
I would think they would store the data and dump it when the meter reader comes around. The point is to get you to shift heavy useage to off peak times by offereing a lower rate during off peak.

I asked a gentleman as he was reading the meters in our neighborhood.  My driveway sits about an eighth mile from "the main road", so he has to come near to the house to read my meter.

Supposedly, they are similiar to RFID, in that they need to be remotely activated by a transmitter before they will dump their contents.

Contents, according to this particular So Cal Edison employee where pretty much like a comma seperated file.

Completely non high tech.

And they give us NO breaks on power usage here yet.

Shane

[Jim, W5JO]

I have had the 2 way meter for almost 5 years now here in rural OK.  One time per month it is polled by the home office and it dumps the reading.  They can also use the system to look for heavy loads.  If it sees an extra temporary load, the system can shift to accomodate it.  This is not to say it can't be used for other purposes, but they tell me they don't have plans for other uses.

I have had zero noise from it.

[WA1GFZ]

When you think of all the users hanging off the grid the power co doesn't have the time or desire to play big brother. They have plenty to do holding darn near a short at 240 volts from miles away.
I read today the only motivation is to get users to run heavy loads during off peak times.

[WU2D]

I worked on a system in the mid 90s called ICSS that was a chipset designed and patented by a start up company that I worked for and the fab was of course in silicon valley. This system used two semi-redundant FSK carriers at 9 -95 kHz (the standard band) and this signal was able to get through a couple of transformers.  http://www.national.com/an/AN/AN-919.pdf   and  http://www.national.com/mpf/IC/IC_SS.html

No idea if this is what they are using but we sold a lot of this stuff into Europe in the late 90's.

Mike WU2D

[Ed/KB1HYS]

Supposedly, they are similiar to RFID, in that they need to be remotely activated by a transmitter before they will dump their contents.

I wonder how they will be if the meter happens to be located close by during QRO ops? 

I had to have one of the remote reading heads replaced after I was running some experiments in the workshop where the water main/meter was located.

though I using the water main as part of a ground for a Tesla Coil that I had built...   

[KB2WIG]

  "  And they give us NO breaks on power usage here yet. "

Probably yer break will come when they surcharge your 'peak' usage.........

klc

[KD6VXI]

  "  And they give us NO breaks on power usage here yet. "

Probably yer break will come when they surcharge your 'peak' usage.........

klc

Here in California, they use the meter's "history" to monitor your usage in hours.

We have quite the marijuana propped up economy here.

18 hours of usage or 12 hours of usage will get someone a visit from the local authorities.  From the articles in the newspapers, both electric usage and water usage are what they are getting people with now.

I've even heard of 1 amatuer and 1 CB'er getting a visit from "electricity" usage cops, but that was never verified.

--Shane

[KB2WIG]

For a while, IR viewers were used to detect indoor gardens, but that was deemed too intrusive a method...

On another note, a old friend of mine was a USAF 'lectricin in the UK. He didn't like the temperature inside the Quonset huts in the winter, so he added a little electric heat. HE said that He notice the overhead feeders for his barrack were hanging noticebly lower than the others.....  warm wire


klc

[k4kyv]

They installed it here about a year ago.  No noticeable noise in the shack, but holding a portable radio near the meter causes it to pick up a wide band whine, about 800~.  Sounds similar to alternator whine coming through car radio speakers.

I'm wondering if it accounts for some of the low level buzzies I hear across the spctrum about every 30 or 60 kHz.  Sound just like the old TV horizontal oscillators, but spaced farther apart. 

The remote metering they use here is supposed to work like BPL, sending the signal back to the central office via the power lines.  But I don't know how the signal gets past the transformer.  They didn't attach the JS's around the pole pigs like they supposedly do with BPL.  In the next town over, they are running fibre optic cable to every customer for the purpose, and plan to sell broadband service, telephone and video over the same FO cable. They claim the revenue for the digital services will pay for running the cable, over about a 20-year period. 

Wonder if the data-over-powerline is encrypted.  Otherwise, it will just be a matter of time till someone figures out how to hack the system and modify their power bill.

Maybe they will be more conscientious about fixing power line noise problems, if they thought it could blank out their billing service.

They must  have actually fixed my noise problem.  I called for the 2rd time Xmas eve and spoke with the manager.  He said they would get onto the problem "in a few days".  But to my surprise and delight, the noise was gone within a matter of hours and has not returned now after 2 weeks, so hopefully they actually repaired something, and it didn't just stop on its own, with the likelihood of recurring at any moment.

[Opcom]

The electric company "Oncor" serving Dallas, Texas kindly sent me the response and attachment:

"Response (Jennifer Dubois) - 02/16/2009 03:39 PM
Mr. Jankowiak:

Here is the information I have to date:

The Oncor RF mesh communicating with the AMS meter operates in the unlicensed 900 MHz frequency spectrum (902 to 928 MHz).  The ZigBee chip for the Home Area Network operates in the unlicensed 2.4 GHz spectrum (2405 to 2480 MHz). See the attached meter specification sheet. 

Please let us know if you have additional questions.  Thanks for your interest in Oncor’s AMS deployment."

[ke7trp]

I have had one for about 3 months. No noticeable noise in the shack. However, If I hold my SW handheld near it I get a hell of a wail from it. I dont care about that as I cant hear it in the shack.

Clark

[N5RLR]

The electric company "Oncor" serving Dallas, Texas kindly sent me the response and attachment...

Thanks for the info, Patrick.  I've already had to [figuratively] get into Oncor's face once recently over meter-reading issues.

[KD6VXI]

I don't notice anything coming off my remote read meter?
I would think they would store the data and dump it when the meter reader comes around. The point is to get you to shift heavy useage to off peak times by offereing a lower rate during off peak.

That's what they do at one of my houses.  The meter is stuck in RX mode until the reader drives close enough to activate it.

Then, it makes a dump to the meter readers "laptop", and that's that.  Takes all of about 2 seconds for the handshake, data handoff, and close.  He doesn't even get out of his car.

It doesn't go down the power lines, either.  He has to get close enough to "activate it".

Similiar to RFID imbedded chips, in the way they are activated.  Or the EZ-Tag type devices for carpool lanes.

HOWEVER, those are typically one way type devices.  He said his is two way, and I wonder WHAT they could possibly need to do to get into your "meter" at all hours?  'Cept to shut you off?

Makes it real easy for them to find leaks (thieves).  Also, look to see multiple tiered electric bills.  I know a person who has these types of meters, and they get one rate at night, and a different one during the day.

The D.E.A. and local  law enforcement LOVE this.  They can  now monitor power usage over time, and when you use 12 hours a day of power, and 12 hours is back to "normal", expect a visit from the law enforcement narcotics task force.  18 hours of heavy usage, same thing.

--Shane

[k4kyv]

The D.E.A. and local  law enforcement LOVE this.  They can  now monitor power usage over time, and when you use 12 hours a day of power, and 12 hours is back to "normal", expect a visit from the law enforcement narcotics task force.  18 hours of heavy usage, same thing.

Unless they come armed and with search warrant in hand, I won't let them in and will tell them its not their damn business what I use my electricity for.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

They won't need to with the smart grid.

[KD6VXI]

The D.E.A. and local  law enforcement LOVE this.  They can  now monitor power usage over time, and when you use 12 hours a day of power, and 12 hours is back to "normal", expect a visit from the law enforcement narcotics task force.  18 hours of heavy usage, same thing.

Unless they come armed and with search warrant in hand, I won't let them in and will tell them its not their damn business what I use my electricity for.

If the DEA comes knockin at your door, you can bet they have a warrant.

And typically, water usage, lack of verifiable income, no tax returns, etc. are all included.

My bill is from 300 to 550 a month, and I haven't had a problem... 


--Shane

[k4kyv]

I suspect they would have to have more evidence of criminal activity, than just power and/or water usage alone, for a judge to sign a search warrant.

It would likely be more like the case of a routine traffic stop, when the cop asks for "permission" to search the vehicle.  90% of people are so intimidated that they waive their 4th Amendment rights and allow the cop to search, even though they might knowingly have something to hide, and the search is nothing more than a random fishing expedition.  Chances are if the driver politely refused permission the cop would just let him go, with maybe a ticket for whatever traffic violation occurred.  If the cop really had a warrant or probable cause based on real physical evidence, he would not be asking for "permission" to search.

[W1RKW]

I don't believe the LEOs would come after one for a spike in electrical usage unless there was something else to substantiate it like an increase in vehicular traffic at a particular residence and/or complaints from neighbors.

Every year I run an electric heater to heat my garage at 50 degrees  in an effort to keep the parishables from freezing, convect heat to the upstairs level and make the garaged cars comfortable when driving away into the freezing cold. My electrical usage is pretty steep during this time period.  I'd welcome a visit by the local yokels and give them a piece of my mind if they had some suspicion but I doubt that will ever  happen. They would need some other circumstantial evidence as a backup which will not be there.

Are these meters part 15 devices?? If so, I'm wondering if there's a way to jam the electric meter to force the utility company out of their vehicle and read the meter the old fashioned way and circumvent this the type of metering they're purporting to save the consumer money based on peak demand when it may not?