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Author Topic: Beans, Bibles and Bullets - Better Stock Up Boys  (Read 36555 times)
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ka3zlr
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« Reply #50 on: October 08, 2008, 10:14:32 PM »

Well,

 My First order of business would be...Securing Water and the purification of, then secure shelter, securing food sources etc, a big problem will be Waste, human waste...the removal of...the bigger the population the bigger the problem...obviously...Avoid crowds at all cost would be beneficial...

 In the proposed up and coming so called "Crash",  Land, Money, personal items would be of little use or worth in the immediate onset, because as well as the Shock of said "crash" having it's hey day there would be also an immediate interest by the people who feel entitled to be in power that has a great interest in the control of the spiraling mass... once again avoid any crowd...Good Luck there...Terror would again be the order of the day...that could come from any where...toss up..avoid any news media...best bet...

 Firearms,..well yes well no... ya can't eat or drink gun powder,..Situational awareness would be the call, an survival decisions are best based on first thought first action as needed..once again avoid any interaction...best bet..

 My thinking is based on the fact that if an when this does happen, "if it happens at all"....it will Not be like 29 or 13 or 90 ...pick a day it will not be even close...it will be on it's own order an like nothing that has never been experienced before, but by the fact that yes a crashing is happening at the onset..today the game is global not local...

 If it Happens at all,.... it's much easier to control what's at hand by simple rumor and loss of certain thinking's and rights...simply by scare tactics...Sheep are better lead through their natural instincts...

I'd rather talk about squirrel hunting... Smiley



 

 

 

 
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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #51 on: October 08, 2008, 10:15:49 PM »

Time to hang the traitors Irb.
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W1UJR
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« Reply #52 on: October 08, 2008, 10:17:31 PM »

Time to hang the traitors Irb.

That just might be the cry you hear in the streets Frank!

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k4kyv
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« Reply #53 on: October 09, 2008, 02:07:17 AM »

Time to hang the traitors Irb.

That just might be the cry you hear in the streets Frank!

But they might decide that YOU are the traitor.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
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ka3zlr
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« Reply #54 on: October 09, 2008, 05:59:18 AM »

That is a Given my friend an one that i never thought would be seen, A standing traitor in ones own country convicted without prior proof...just an interest in Liberty, Justice and the American Way.

I imagine as well talk of population surgery is on the agenda..Again.., i seen where his majesty "Mr Windows" gave a sum of 30 million towards population control ?..something on that order i read somewhere, and others of High monetary worth giving large sums towards the true problem.

It will be interesting to see what Solution is arrived at and what course of action will be taken, the "AIDS" epidemic has failed.

What the hell, we're suffering another setback from the Crowns Central Banking System, that which at one time "was" removed from our Soil, it's amazing how those of such High Esteem have such little interest in human advancement.

What was the word in the sixties..."Pigs"....ya......
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N8LGU
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« Reply #55 on: October 09, 2008, 11:36:17 AM »

   Here in rural West Virginia, many people are somewhat self sufficient. If things really meltdown economically, deer will be the first to go. If I had to put meat on the table and had only one rifle, it would be a .22LR rifle. We may find ourselves eating small game. Ammo is cheap-about $13 for a box of 500.
    There may be a silver lining to all this economic havoc. It may have a cleansing effect on our "material generation madness". (I knew we were in trouble when I saw people buying food at the grocery with credit cards.)
    Hey, we can always barter Boat Anchors! Better than money in the bank.
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"Rock Cave Dave"
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« Reply #56 on: October 09, 2008, 11:41:24 AM »

Don,
How do you figure I could be a traitor?
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W3RSW
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« Reply #57 on: October 09, 2008, 12:18:08 PM »

Don, your right on with your link.  I also took a course in F. Revolution at Marietta.
Reading about the French Revolution may enlighten us about who are the traitors.  Just about anyone.

Revolution derived from deteriorating or collapsing economies rapidly leads to total chaos. - Egalitariansim run amok.-  Class warefare is the chief tool. (always promoted by hidden interests to further consolidation of power and riches for a very few.)

"Off with their heads!"

First you start with the King, then his court, then anyone who knew or had business with them, then any businessman who's richer than you, then everone perceived to be any richer than you, then all the teachers, academics or anyone who wears glasses for that matter (have to be reading books...),   it stops only when the mob is very tired, hungry and with no one else to blame than themselves.  China's 'great leap forward' is another good example.

Thus take over the real tyrants.   In the French case, Napolean; Chinese, Mao.( already there and worried that the country was slipping away from him.)

So careful what you wish for; 
If "they" do come pouring out of the cities, scavenging all ahead of them, a single farmer or several families, even equipped with an arsenal will not be able to stop them.  You'll have to band together, at least several tens to hundreds to have the firepower to stop the hoards.  That still doesn't guarantee long term food supply, ability to raise crops, feed, or livestock.  They'll be toast to the hoards.

  But you survivalists really don't have to worry.  Who was it that said... "There's never a revolution until the majoriity miss three meals a day, for several days"(that's only the meals.)   This fat and sassy country is very far from that.  Fuel, -energy is extremely cheap compared to a horse and carriage economy, despite what one perceives as $4.00/gal gas. .. .for a two ton traveling machine to carry a 0.075 ton man.... Imagine!  What wealth we take for granted every day.- The infrastructure we take for granted.

But if worse came to worse, are we self sufficient in WV?   Yeah, right; most of the population never slaughtered an animal (eeeuwe, yucky!), raised chickens, cut hay, fed anything but themselves... or for that matter ever done any chores.  They'll catch on fast about where to go to loot though.  I wonder how fast a "Bambi" can be converted to a useful citizen? 

Yeah, a lot of us have rifles...  but the deer will go very fast.  I won't elaborate on all the sci-fi story scenarios I've read and outcomes possible.  You guys have read them.  Suffice to say that one story had a bunch of foraging rapists (and that's describing them lightly) forcing a child to dance on a red-hot stove.

Our best bet is rational, cool thought and cooperative effort to prevent any sort of catastrophic meltdown.
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« Reply #58 on: October 09, 2008, 12:50:07 PM »

Hey, Rick.

A large portion of our American urban population has absolutely no idea where their food comes from other than "from the supermarket". Never visited or even seen a working farm.

Incredible.

Bear in mind none of these terrible scenarios ever happened, even in the 1930s. It takes a major crisis for Americans to set aside their personal opinions and pull together, and we're not at that point (yet?).
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« Reply #59 on: October 09, 2008, 03:18:09 PM »

   Here in rural West Virginia, many people are somewhat self sufficient. If things really meltdown economically, deer will be the first to go. If I had to put meat on the table and had only one rifle, it would be a .22LR rifle. We may find ourselves eating small game. Ammo is cheap-about $13 for a box of 500.
    There may be a silver lining to all this economic havoc. It may have a cleansing effect on our "material generation madness". (I knew we were in trouble when I saw people buying food at the grocery with credit cards.)
    Hey, we can always barter Boat Anchors! Better than money in the bank.
-------
Really.  I still own my father's old single shot .22.  As I kid I dropped my spending money into .22 shorts (cheaper than LR's) and murdered scores of beer cans and soda bottles.  I never thought of it as a hunting rifle but then again, when someone says hunting, I think of deer or going after game birds with a shot gun.   I also have his old double barrel 16 guage but I'm afraid to shoot that thing.  It might blow up in my face.   

 There is something satisfying about an old bolt action rifle if the barrel is still good.
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k4kyv
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« Reply #60 on: October 09, 2008, 03:24:03 PM »

Reading about the French Revolution may enlighten us about who are the traitors.

...the government of France, was bankrupt and was facing a serious financial crisis.

The crisis came about primarily because of an inefficient and unfair tax structure, outdated medieval bureaucratic institutions, and a drained treasury which was the result of aiding the Americans during the American Revolution, long wars with England, overspending, and an inequitable tax system which placed the burden of taxation on those least able to pay...


http://www.historywiz.com/frenchrev.htm
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
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« Reply #61 on: October 09, 2008, 04:55:38 PM »

I have read and printed this entire website five years ago before all the advertisements were inserted.  I'm sure there are some areas of interest to a few of us on here.

http://www.endtimesreport.com/
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« Reply #62 on: October 09, 2008, 08:54:08 PM »

Some ramblings; I hope they stay on topic.

...and I have delighted in viewing the John Adams series recently shown on HBO.  Got the CD. We were a much more self sufficient society in those days.
 
The French Revolution was a culmination of a lot of what Don said; the general nature of a bankrupt Europe after centuries of gems like the Hundred Years war, the continuous later wars between France, England and Spain.  Many wars were started by family; royal cousins mad at each other for perceived slights.  Sport in those days consisted of sailing a few frigates into a peaceful enemy harbor, shooting up the docks, commercial shipping and the harbor town before the land forts could get a bead on you. 

Not too many  years earlier, landing boats on your shores meant you fought to the death for family and survival or were consigned to slavery.  Not for nothing is one of the stanzas in "Hail Brittannia," (closet thing to an National anthem), "Hail Brittania, ruler of the waves, " ... "We will never, never, never be slaves again."

Our revolution was pretty much an extension of the Queen Anne series of wars, re-named the French and Indian war for our domestic consumption.

Sort of like "My Country Tis of Thee...." instead of "God Save The King," we tend to borrow a lot, including our common law. 
What we've forgotten is how to enforce those laws.  The British (hell, the Americans for that matter) of the Eighteenth century would be appalled at our lame attempts of politically correct enforcement these days.

I see the Dow melt-down continued today; Perhaps tomorrow it will bottom.
GM stock sells for less than $5.oo; what it was in Truman's Administration.   Ford's now less than $2.00. This will be interesting.  I think the market is correcting itself and showing pretty much what a dollar's worth. 
One theory posits that a lot of smart money is "getting out of the country" while the gettin's good.
I leave the reasons for a more political arena.  Grin
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« Reply #63 on: October 09, 2008, 09:58:05 PM »

Interesting discussion.  I'll add my thoughts....

This bear market has all the ear markings of a coming deflation. That is the biggest danger we face.

Deflations usually wipe out both equities and credit instruments first. Then they go after prices of commodities. Collectibles are toast.  Cash becomes king and becomes the most valuable asset.  Even gold gets discounted as shown by past history. Confidence gets shattered.  Unemployment goes into double digits, etc, etc.

At the present time, we are in the so-called "realization phase" of the bear market.  The Average Joe finally acknowledges stocks are going down and we are in a bear market for sure.  We are also in the acceleration phase on the downside which means more downside is yet to come. There will be tremendous rallies in-between, of course, but the investors who hold on as we sink to new lows will finally sell out at the lows, wherever they finally rest.

If this was still a bull market, this current fearful environment would be a tremendous buying opportunity. However, being a bear market generates merely sucker rallies.

In a bull market we climb a wall of worry ever higher. In a bear market, we slide down a slope of hope. The talking heads on TV will continue to find reasons to buy stocks and other investments.

We are witnessing history that will be talked and read about a hundred years from now.

I have no predictions other than to say to raise cash and worry more about your assets and investments eroding rather than return. US T-bills hit 0% yield recently. This tells us that the marketplace cares only about preserving money right now. Return is secondary.

What amazes me is that this bull market (and economy including real estate) lasted for so long and went so far. Just like any over-done market, the corrections are of the same magnitude.

In a bull market, the government can have a tremendous effect on the optimism and higher prices, cuz that is the trend. However, in a bear market the government can only fail trying to stop what is inevidable - a major bear market.

In the past 26 years, we have witnessed many bull market downside corrections. These can be sharp and scary, but the market always recovered to new highs. We're in a new ball game now. Buying dips ( as shown recently) is financial suicide. General Motors looked like a tremendous buy at 10 recently. It closed at  4.76 today.  Signs of a deflation.

Oil had its run-up and now appears headed back down. Deflation knows no bounds.

It's interesting that only 26 years ago the Dow Jones stood at 767. Can you imagine the shock if the Dow simply retraced back to this level again? That would be a 95% loss from the 15,000 high made last October, 2007.

Again, I'm not making predictions here, I'm just pointing out the possibilities. Deflation is even worse than inflation.  Though, it's hard to imagine deflation when the government is pumping out money like a hyper-inflation freight train. I'll still put my bet on deflation. Cash is king.  As long as you preserve your assets at 0% return, when others around you are losing their's, that is really a relative gain.

History in the making. We live in exciting times for sure.


Good luck -

T
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« Reply #64 on: October 09, 2008, 10:19:04 PM »

Interesting discussion.  I'll add my thoughts....

This bear market has all the ear markings of a coming deflation. That is the biggest danger we face.

Deflations usually wipe out both equities and credit instruments first. Then they go after prices of commodities. Collectibles are toast.  Cash becomes king and becomes the most valuable asset.  Even gold gets discounted as shown by past history. Confidence gets shattered.  Unemployment goes into double digits, etc, etc.

At the present time, we are in the so-called "realization phase" of the bear market.  The Average Joe finally acknowledges stocks are going down and we are in a bear market for sure.  We are also in the acceleration phase on the downside which means more downside is yet to come. There will be tremendous rallies in-between, of course, but the investors who hold on as we sink to new lows will finally sell out at the lows, wherever they finally rest.

If this was still a bull market, this current fearful environment would be a tremendous buying opportunity. However, being a bear market generates merely sucker rallies.

In a bull market we climb a wall of worry ever higher. In a bear market, we slide down a slope of hope. The talking heads on TV will continue to find reasons to buy stocks and other investments.

We are witnessing history that will be talked and read about a hundred years from now.

I have no predictions other than to say to raise cash and worry more about your assets and investments eroding rather than return. US T-bills hit 0% yield recently. This tells us that the marketplace cares only about preserving money right now. Return is secondary.

What amazes me is that this bull market (and economy including real estate) lasted for so long and went so far. Just like any over-done market, the corrections are of the same magnitude.

In a bull market, the government can have a tremendous effect on the optimism and higher prices, cuz that is the trend. However, in a bear market the government can only fail trying to stop what is inevidable - a major bear market.

In the past 26 years, we have witnessed many bull market downside corrections. These can be sharp and scary, but the market always recovered to new highs. We're in a new ball game now. Buying dips ( as shown recently) is financial suicide. General Motors looked like a tremendous buy at 10 recently. It closed at  4.76 today.  Signs of a deflation.

Oil had its run-up and now appears headed back down. Deflation knows no bounds.

It's interesting that only 26 years ago the Dow Jones stood at 767. Can you imagine the shock if the Dow simply retraced back to this level again? That would be a 95% loss from the 15,000 high made last October, 2007.

Again, I'm not making predictions here, I'm just pointing out the possibilities. Deflation is even worse than inflation.  Though, it's hard to imagine deflation when the government is pumping out money like a hyper-inflation freight train. I'll still put my bet on deflation. Cash is king.  As long as you preserve your assets at 0% return, when others around you are losing their's, that is really a relative gain.

History in the making. We live in exciting times for sure.


Good luck -

T
I think Bear season starts in November! Grin
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« Reply #65 on: October 10, 2008, 09:07:33 AM »

Thanks, Tom. Excellent insight.

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« Reply #66 on: October 10, 2008, 09:26:20 AM »

Yes, very well expounded Tom.

I only have this to add.  Grin The $767 Dow of 26 years ago need to be "corrected," yeah, right,for inflation of what we used to call "Carter Dollarettes."   So what's 26 years worth?  Lesseee.., the old rule of 7% for 10 years, halves (or doubles) you money or at a higher rate, 10% for 7 years halves or doubles. 

The 7% rate sounds about right (you don't really believe Gov'ts published 3.4% do you?) so the new Dow low might be $5000 to $6000. 

If you do believe the Gov'ts published inflation rate, then the Dow will sinkvery low.  How's that for a Gotcha? 

Sorry, I seem to be adding more, heh, heh.

Yes, cash at any amount and buried in the back yard has value  If, and this may be a big 'if',/i] people have enough trust in it to trade it for goods in kind.   Never forget the first rule of modern economics. All paper money is based on trust.  This where I differ a little concerning valuable metals, e.g., gold and silver.  One of the reasons for gov't mints, etc. was to certifiy that a coin was true exchange, uncut or shaved. 

Who and how safe are the houses that hold your electronic 'cash' these daysj?  And that explains much of the melt down, - erosion of trust.  Trading stocks are just the tip of the iceberg.
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« Reply #67 on: October 10, 2008, 11:47:51 AM »

The crazy part:

Everyone's acting like the country's been nuked.

The reality is, everything's the same as last year. The roads, water, infrastructure are all still there and functioning. Ranchers are still ranching, chickens are still laying and farmers are farming, their dirt didn't disappear. No one's job skills disappeared.

It's all largely irrational fear which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
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Tom WA3KLR
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« Reply #68 on: October 10, 2008, 12:56:28 PM »

The false economy we've been in the last 15 - 20 years has finally caught up with us.  Now things will settle out, no more false economy, at least for a while.  The poor ethics and bad management that put us here will probably stay unfortunately.  So another cycle begins.
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73 de Tom WA3KLR  AMI # 77   Amplitude Modulation - a force Now and for the Future!
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« Reply #69 on: October 11, 2008, 03:00:35 AM »

"The most valuable commodity in the universe is fear."

from: World War Z - An Oral history of the Zombie Wars by Max Brooks

Boy I picked a good book to read this week while on travel.

Mike WU2D
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ab3al
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« Reply #70 on: October 11, 2008, 06:07:23 AM »

the only possible thing I can add to this is the reports coming out that OPEC Is holding an emergency meeting about how to get oil jacked back up to its artificial record high.  Guess the Camel Jockeys cant make enough money @ 80 to fund our sleeper cells anymore
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k4kyv
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« Reply #71 on: October 11, 2008, 10:07:38 AM »

Quote from: K1JJ
Deflation is even worse than inflation.  Though, it's hard to imagine deflation when the government is pumping out money like a hyper-inflation freight train. I'll still put my bet on deflation. Cash is king.  As long as you preserve your assets at 0% return, when others around you are losing their's, that is really a relative gain.

If we had real money, there would be no inflation or deflation.  A dollar would have constant purchasing power, year after year.

The government and big business both love inflation, as long as they can keep it under "control". 

By failing to index taxes to inflation, your tax bill automatically increases from year to year until congress passes its periodic tax cut.  Minimum wage automatically decreases from year to year until congress passes an increase. The government makes out. 

Salaries, wages and pension COLA's lag the actual devaluation of the dollarette. Everything goes up in price except working people's personal income. Business makes out.

My state pension gives an annual COLA equal to the CPI - up to a maximum of 3%.  So if we have 9% inflation, the increase is still only 3%.

The banks like inflation because it prevents people from keeping their money in a safe or stuffing it away in the mattress or burying it in the back garden.

Everybody benefits from inflation except those who work for a living.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
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« Reply #72 on: October 11, 2008, 10:17:25 AM »

Bill said:
Quote
The crazy part:

Everyone's acting like the country's been nuked.

The reality is, everything's the same as last year. The roads, water, infrastructure are all still there and functioning. Ranchers are still ranching, chickens are still laying and farmers are farming, their dirt didn't disappear. No one's job skills disappeared.

It's all largely irrational fear which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

FDR said:
Quote
We have nothing to fear but fear itself!

Bill, I agree with you. I look back over last 15 years and I'm now making double the $'s I made when I started this job. There has been a significant increase in durable goods and grocery prices, but that has been in large part due to the run-up of oil. Excluding gasoline and oil, my grocery bill has only gone up about 20%. I guess everybody wants to make more money and will bitch when they don't make it enough! I bitch too, but in retrospect, I'm not too bad off and I'm still chuggin' along.

The one sad note is that the one Fleetwood plant located about 2 miles from my house is closing down at the end of the year. I don't know how they survived this long. Fleetwood makes those large mobile home cruisers you see towing a car behind them. I would have thought they would have curtailed operations when gas and oil prices were at their levels two years ago. I guess the market finally caught up to them.
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« Reply #73 on: October 11, 2008, 10:22:20 AM »

On another note. Has anyone paid attention to what is happening in the EU? I guess it is begining to show some "stress fractures". None of the countries can come to an agreement on the best way to solve their financial crisis. Hell, Ireland pretty much said, "Screw you! We don't want to be part of your union." While England and Italy have pretty much floundered in different directions.
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Mike(y)/W3SLK
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« Reply #74 on: October 11, 2008, 03:28:28 PM »

The dollar is slowly gaining on the euro. We will clean house soon in Washington. I'm hoping the day after election day feels like the crap you take Friday after Thanksgiving. I'll be looking to buy.
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