Another reason members should be given a coice of Publication: QST, QEX or NCJ

[k4kyv]

K5MC, candidate for Delta Division Director, has included in his campaign platform that League  members should be given a choice of which publication they receive with their membership.

In response, W5EW made the following observation, something that had never occurred to me until he mentioned it, but I think it's an extremely valid point:

When I became a life member of ARRL all of what I enjoyed reading in QST was still in QST. Years later much of what I enjoyed had been removed to other ARRL publications, namely QEX and NCJ. At the time I became a life member I had no idea that 20 or so years later I would either have to spend more money (purchase QEX or NCJ) to keep what I had enjoyed for many years or do without. I kept my end of the deal and paid the fee for life membership but ARRL did not keep the same deal as thru the years they slowly ate away at many of the things I enjoyed.

An alternative would be to make available an online edition of QST in the Members-Only page and keep these in archive for future reference. Then give members the choice of QST (Dead Tree Edition), QEX or NCJ.

I subscribe to a broadcast publication called RadioWorld, and they have begun to offer the choice of online edition or paper edition. With the cost of everything rising, I suspect that in the not-to-distant future they will phase out the paper edition, just as the League did several years ago to ARRL Letter.

Most of the "news" and "happenings" printed in QST are stale by the time the magazine arrives in the mail, having already appeared in numerous websites weeks before the magazine is distributed from the printer.

[ka3zlr]

A Very Good Subject matter Don, nice find OM.

 No doubt there will be some response that will attempt a watering down to this but the gentleman has a Valid point, Good Luck to the other gentleman in bringing this to the forefront at HQ, he will be fighting an up hill battle.

 Time an again down through the years I debated becoming a life member then some of the moves in my opinion became questionable and in some instances disillusioned....

 I don't have a problem with the Corporate function, business is business everybody has a job to do, it's when that's allowed to interfere with the character and the content purpose of the collective that slights the original Focus.

Times Change, Technology Changes But what is the Focus.

73.



 

 


 

[w8khk]

You make some very good points, Don. 

At the Marietta hamfest last Saturday, as I strolled by the ARRL booth, they stopped me and asked if I wanted to join and receive QST.  I told them I was already a member and I receive QST, but I would really prefer to receive QEX instead.  They said they cannot do that because the advertizers were promised that all members would receive all the ads via QST.  So maybe I will not renew membership in January 2009. 

Then I got to thinking, why not give membership and advertizers their wishes?  There is nothing to prevent the ARRL from publishing QEX in the same format as QST, with all the ads, but QEX content instead of QST.  In the old days, it would probably be a logistical nightmare to do the layout.  But with the electronic publishing tools used today, it should be a no-brainer.  Each member should be able to receive a dead tree version of the QST, QEX, or the contest rag, with the ads.  Then members only could review the content of the other two pubs via the web, or subscribe to the additional rag.  Membership might increase, so ad revenue would increase.  Is this possible?  Remember, even if the ads appear in QEX, there is no law that we have to read them......

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Then I got to thinking, why not give membership and advertizers their wishes?  There is nothing to prevent the ARRL from publishing QEX in the same format as QST, with all the ads, but QEX content instead of QST.  In the old days, it would probably be a logistical nightmare to do the layout.  But with the electronic publishing tools used today, it should be a no-brainer.  Each member should be able to receive a dead tree version of the QST, QEX, or the contest rag, with the ads.  Then members only could review the content of the other two pubs via the web, or subscribe to the additional rag.  Membership might increase, so ad revenue would increase.  Is this possible?  Remember, even if the ads appear in QEX, there is no law that we have to read them......

If the current advertisers in QST wanted to advertise in QEX, I see nothing stopping them for doing so other then the additional cost for advertising space. But QEX targets a very limited readership (the techie pop.). Why in the world would an advertiser spend the additional bucks to advertise in a limited readership publication (that's published only 6 times a year) unless, of course, they were targeting that audience. As an ARRL member, all members receive the QST monthly journal. This is the ideal place for advertisers, who offer a wide variety of products and services, to spend their advertising dollars. And, your last line above, may typically describe the average "techie pop." reading QEX. Not a great incentive to spend your advertising dollars.

And, from W5EW's quote in Don's post:
"I kept my end of the deal and paid the fee for life membership but ARRL did not keep the same deal as thru the years they slowly ate away at many of the things I enjoyed."

I could find nothing in the membership application, or anywhere for that matter, that states that the content of QST will remain the same from the initial publication to infinity. Times change, amateur radio interests change. The "techie pop." interest isn't as vibrant, large scale, or main stream as it was 30 to 60 years ago.

[W1DAN]

Hi all:

Good to see this coming back to light.

I would not mind seeing QEX emailed to me in PDF form for free in addition to my postal mailing of QST, even after it's natural street life. It would not cost the ARRL anything to send the PDF, but I doubt they'd go for it.

Kinda like when you pay town taxes for having curb trash pickup for many years and now you have to "pay as you throw" AND pay your taxes (it has happened to me)!

Oh well.....

73,
Dan W1DAN

[k4kyv]

Then I got to thinking, why not give membership and advertizers their wishes?  There is nothing to prevent the ARRL from publishing QEX in the same format as QST, with all the ads, but QEX content instead of QST.  In the old days, it would probably be a logistical nightmare to do the layout.  But with the electronic publishing tools used today, it should be a no-brainer.

I would be perfectly happy to continue receiving QST in its present form if QEX were made available free of extra charge on-line to paid members, especially if they kept the back issues in archive for future reference. 

Or else, there is no reason why QEX has to be published as a stand-alone publication once every two months.  Half the present content could be published in each issue on a  monthly basis.  The format could be the same as that of QST, with the same ads, news, editorials and membership service information, but with the "human interest" drivel that now fills QST replaced with the technical content that now appears in QEX.

I used to subscribe to an agricultural journal that came in four distinctly regional editions.  The cover and most of the content of each edition were identical, but a section of each magazine was devoted to content of particular interest to each of the regions: southeast, southwest, mid-atlantic and midwest, since farming operations vary in different regions of the country.  As I recall, you were automatically sent the edition that corresponded to your mailing address, but you could request a different edition if you preferred.

In a similar manner, each member could opt for a technical, general or contest edition of the membership journal.  The technical edition would carry specialised content similar to what is now in QEX or what used to be in Ham Radio, the general edition would cater more to the newbies, similar to the present QST or the old Ham Radio Horizons, while the contest edition would resemble the present CQ.

For that matter, with all the information in the membership journal so easily placed on the members-only website, the mandatory paper magazine subscription is increasingly becoming an anachronism, better to be retained upon request, at additional cost, for those lacking computer or internet access.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

The ARRL TIS Pages have a number of QEX articles available for review and download. Many are available for both members and nonmembers.

I'm an ARRL member; I want a free ARRL Handbook each year.

It could also be this "human interest" drivel you refer to are actually articles that are enjoyed by the majority of the membership. In my opinion, the traditional "amateur techie" from the "good old days" has declined over the last 40 years. It makes no sense to provide high level, in-depth technical articles in QST if possibly 50% of the membership has no interest in reading them.

I'm an ARRL member; I want a free ARRL Antenna Book each year.
The point here and above is that books, subscriptions, sportswear, CD's, etc. are all products available for purchase by members and nonmembers. They are all revenue generators. There is nothing evil about that. It makes good business sense. Nothing comes free - someone or something has to foot the cost.

[ka3zlr]

Now hold on a Second, Good Morning Everybody,


 Pete back up a little bit here, wait a minute..nobody is waylaying the business aspect of the operation everybody understands costs and day to day business expense, your clouding the issue again.

 First what does and doesn't make sense would be better served if the "Caretakers" would poll, ask and invite the member population as to the needs and wants to better the membership and quit "assuming" what is needed, ie "Membership Involvement"...Always makes for a better and more enjoyable member time and activity, not everybody needs somebody else to do their thinking for them...That's the problem OM...

 Second, this "Techie' thing isn't a By Gone...This is a technical service and some would appreciate a little less spoon feeding like what is received from DC is bad enough in our school systems, we don't need to mimmick all aspects of the Corporate Ladder...again, a population is only as imagined as the imagination is allowed to expand..the "Caretakers" loss in Forward thinking...which is more important the "Business" or the population that feeds it.

I dunno it's like I'm Talking to a director here...somebody Hit me with a Ballpeen hammer...LOL.....

 

[W3SLK]

Jack said:

First what does and doesn't make sense would be better served if the "Caretakers" would poll, ask and invite the member population as to the needs and wants to better the membership and quit "assuming" what is needed, ie "Membership Involvement"...Always makes for a better and more enjoyable member time and activity, not everybody needs somebody else to do their thinking for them...That's the problem OM...

No Jack, the problem is the ARRgghhL. They would take a survey and poll of their members, (like they have done in the past) and do exactly opposite of what the majority of the members voted for, (like they have done in the past).

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Now hold on a Second, Good Morning Everybody,

 Pete back up a little bit here, wait a minute..nobody is waylaying the business aspect of the operation everybody understands costs and day to day business expense, your clouding the issue again.

I don't try to cloud the issue. My statements are based on my perception as to the makeup of our future ham population.

First what does and doesn't make sense would be better served if the "Caretakers" would poll, ask and invite the member population as to the needs and wants to better the membership and quit "assuming" what is needed, ie "Membership Involvement"...Always makes for a better and more enjoyable member time and activity, not everybody needs somebody else to do their thinking for them...That's the problem OM...

If you peruse the ARRL web site, you will find this PDF file which was directed towards the advertising community. However, on pages 9 and 10, is a QST article called "A Picture of You" - A Recent Survey profiles a Typical QST Reader, done several years ago. I doubt the percentages have changed that much in the following years after the article was published.
http://www.arrl.org/ads/ad-matters/Ad-Matters-Oct-2004.pdf

Second, this "Techie' thing isn't a By Gone...This is a technical service and some would appreciate a little less spoon feeding like what is received from DC is bad enough in our school systems, we don't need to mimmick all aspects of the Corporate Ladder...again, a population is only as imagined as the imagination is allowed to expand..the "Caretakers" loss in Forward thinking...which is more important the "Business" or the population that feeds it.

I disagree that's it's a "technical service". The FCC calls it the "amateur radio service" and many of us view as our "amateur radio hobby" as having interests in many arenas that could be considered nontechnical in the traditional sense.  Back in "the good of days" when electronics in all its incarnations was a hot arena for career shaping, the amateur radio hobby world was filled with techies. Monthly publications abounded with tons of technical and building type projects. As we moved into the latter part of the 20th century and now into the 21st century, the types of careers people are interested in change, hobby interests change, amateur radio changes, QST changes, other publications disappear and/or change their format, etc. etc.

I dunno it's like I'm Talking to a director here...somebody Hit me with a Ballpeen hammer...LOL...

Can't do that; it's a misuse of a ball peen hammer:

Ball Peen Hammer - For jobs that require a hammer with more heft and hardness than the usual claw hammer, try a ball peen hammer. Sometimes called an "engineer's hammer" or a "machinist's hammer", it's often the best hammer to use for metal. Use it to drive cold chisels, setting rivets, and shaping metal. The steel head of a ball peen hammer is harder than the head of a claw hammer, so it's less likely to chip on contact.

[k4kyv]

I disagree that's it's a "technical service". The FCC calls it the "amateur radio service" and many of us view as our "amateur radio hobby" as having interests in many arenas that could be considered nontechnical in the traditional sense.

I recall a few years back that Johnny Johnston, the anti-AM Chief of the FCC's amateur rulemaking division, made a  statement that amateur radio is not a personal communications service.  It is a highly technical radio service...

Section 97.1 (Basis and Purpose) of the amateur rules:

(a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications.

(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art.

(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communications and technical phases of the art.

(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.

(e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill.

It would appear to me that the technical aspect of amateur radio is still a major component of its basis and purpose.

I never stated that League members should expect anything extra for "free", particularly ARRL Handbooks.  But as members we shouldn't have had the inclusive entitlement taken away that we had always enjoyed from day one: access to regularly published in-depth technical information that is relevant to the basis and purpose of amateur radio as expressed above.  I'm sure that much of the rest of what appears in QST remains unread by at least 50% of the subscriber-members.  Why was technical content singled out to be suppressed?

If the "Ham Radio Horizons" crowd received in-depth technical content every month in their membership journal, undoubtedly it would go unread by many member-subscribers, but some might actually take an interest in trying to decipher and understand this content, and come to the realisation that there is more to amateur radio than spending big bucks on the latest and greatest plastic radios, to now even include plastic dipole and vertical antennas.

I'm sure that many veteran amateur members find the "Horizons" content equally uninteresting and useless, as the "Horizons" crowd might find technical content.  If the justification for a separate publication was lack of space in QST, then why couldn't it be made available to  members on-line free of charge, rather than as a separate publication that, issue-per-issue, costs more than QST .  Given the size of the magazine and its advertising content, I'd still be surprised to find QEX to be a highly profitable member of the League's family of publication endeavours.

The move of the amateur service away from the long-standing traditional technical aspects of radio has largely become a self-fulfilling prophesy because the League and the rest of the mainstream amateur radio "establishment" has followed the assumption of inevitability that it was headed in that direction.

[W1DAN]

Hi all:

I agree with Don's thoughs (and the main basis of this thread) that something that was given to us in QST for many decades, has been taken away from us and the ARRL expects us to pay extra for something that was created with talent paid by my (and your) dues.

On the handbook or getting something else for "free": When the ARRL created the handbook, it was always sold as an extra book. You could choose to buy it or not. The ARRL has not changed it's operation here and that is OK. The creation of QEX was a change in the original structure of the monthly organ of the ARRL, QST (same with the NCJ). So my issue is that information is being generated that I do not get even though I am a full life member. This is selectively exclusionary. I am not asking for something for "free", just what we had in the past.

One thing I can see is QEX disapearing in the future if subscriptions go down. I feel there is room in QST to put all the information from QST, QEX and NCJ (as well as the newbie stuff where I feel they are doing a good job). The subscription numbers would go up and this could be sold to the advertizers. It'd be much simpler as well.

Thoughts?

Thanks!
Dan
W1DAN

[ka3zlr]

Now hold on a Second, Good Morning Everybody,

 Pete back up a little bit here, wait a minute..nobody is waylaying the business aspect of the operation everybody understands costs and day to day business expense, your clouding the issue again.

I don't try to cloud the issue. My statements are based on my perception as to the makeup of our future ham population.

First what does and doesn't make sense would be better served if the "Caretakers" would poll, ask and invite the member population as to the needs and wants to better the membership and quit "assuming" what is needed, ie "Membership Involvement"...Always makes for a better and more enjoyable member time and activity, not everybody needs somebody else to do their thinking for them...That's the problem OM...

If you peruse the ARRL web site, you will find this PDF file which was directed towards the advertising community. However, on pages 9 and 10, is a QST article called "A Picture of You" - A Recent Survey profiles a Typical QST Reader, done several years ago. I doubt the percentages have changed that much in the following years after the article was published.
http://www.arrl.org/ads/ad-matters/Ad-Matters-Oct-2004.pdf

Second, this "Techie' thing isn't a By Gone...This is a technical service and some would appreciate a little less spoon feeding like what is received from DC is bad enough in our school systems, we don't need to mimmick all aspects of the Corporate Ladder...again, a population is only as imagined as the imagination is allowed to expand..the "Caretakers" loss in Forward thinking...which is more important the "Business" or the population that feeds it.

I disagree that's it's a "technical service". The FCC calls it the "amateur radio service" and many of us view as our "amateur radio hobby" as having interests in many arenas that could be considered nontechnical in the traditional sense.  Back in "the good of days" when electronics in all its incarnations was a hot arena for career shaping, the amateur radio hobby world was filled with techies. Monthly publications abounded with tons of technical and building type projects. As we moved into the latter part of the 20th century and now into the 21st century, the types of careers people are interested in change, hobby interests change, amateur radio changes, QST changes, other publications disappear and/or change their format, etc. etc.

I dunno it's like I'm Talking to a director here...somebody Hit me with a Ballpeen hammer...LOL...

Can't do that; it's a misuse of a ball peen hammer:

Ball Peen Hammer - For jobs that require a hammer with more heft and hardness than the usual claw hammer, try a ball peen hammer. Sometimes called an "engineer's hammer" or a "machinist's hammer", it's often the best hammer to use for metal. Use it to drive cold chisels, setting rivets, and shaping metal. The steel head of a ball peen hammer is harder than the head of a claw hammer, so it's less likely to chip on contact.

 Well that's all fine Pete, But The "Caretakers"  Need to Advance Too. That's what i mean by "Membership Involvement" Let us Back in the door...What better way to run a railroad than to let the railroad workers take part and work together...Sheeze...LOL...

 That's OK, if we ever get on the same page again I'll rejoin immediately, and be more than glad to promote and share the good will, but I'm in No need of the present "Caretakers" Interests and their Stale view it's just Not Fresh thinking.

 With all that can be, and all that can be done up there, and all the possibilities, you'd think they'd open up by now.. I'm Not losing membership(s) here, or dealing with disgruntled members, or pushing ads and hustling a buck at hamfests to stay alive...Bottom Line...You get More out of the Horse if you feed it and let it know you care once in awhile...than just worken it all the time...hey the rest of the world is Deregulating what's their problem... ... Stagnation Much....LOL....How many more ways can we get a nickel out of the hams pocket...

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Well that's all fine Pete, But The "Caretakers"  Need to Advance Too. That's what i mean by "Membership Involvement" Let us Back in the door...What better way to run a railroad than to let the railroad workers take part and work together...Sheeze...LOL...

 That's OK, if we ever get on the same page again I'll rejoin immediately, and be more than glad to promote and share the good will, but I'm in No need of the present "Caretakers" Interests and their Stale view it's just Not Fresh thinking.

 With all that can be, and all that can be done up there, and all the possibilities, you'd think they'd open up by now.. I'm Not losing membership(s) here, or dealing with disgruntled members, or pushing ads and hustling a buck at hamfests to stay alive...Bottom Line...You get More out of the Horse if you feed it and let it know you care once in awhile...than just worken it all the time...hey the rest of the world is Deregulating what's their problem... ... Stagnation Much....LOL....How many more ways can we get a nickel out of the hams pocket...

If you believe that the "Caretakers" (I'll assume you mean the Directors and/or Officers) are the problem, it seems your solution is to sit back as a nonmember and let the members do all the work in trying to bring in (by voting and/or recruiting) new management blood. Makes sense; why be part of the member involvement in farming for new Directors and Officers when you can just sit back; wait for the smoke to clear; and then maybe reap the benefits. In my opinion, as a member you can help chart a course by voting for Directors and/or by recruiting new Director candidates. As a nonmember, the best you can do is P&M.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

I recall a few years back that Johnny Johnston, the anti-AM Chief of the FCC's amateur rulemaking division, made a  statement that amateur radio is not a personal communications service.  It is a highly technical radio service...

Section 97.1 (Basis and Purpose) of the amateur rules:

(a) Recognition and enhancement of the value of the amateur service to the public as a voluntary noncommercial communication service, particularly with respect to providing emergency communications.

(b) Continuation and extension of the amateur's proven ability to contribute to the advancement of the radio art.

(c) Encouragement and improvement of the amateur service through rules which provide for advancing skills in both the communications and technical phases of the art.

(d) Expansion of the existing reservoir within the amateur radio service of trained operators, technicians, and electronics experts.

(e) Continuation and extension of the amateur's unique ability to enhance international goodwill.

It would appear to me that the technical aspect of amateur radio is still a major component of its basis and purpose.

The move of the amateur service away from the long-standing traditional technical aspects of radio has largely become a self-fulfilling prophesy because the League and the rest of the mainstream amateur radio "establishment" has followed the assumption of inevitability that it was headed in that direction.

Didn't Johnston make that statement back in the early 90's? And, more importantly the statement, "It is a highly technical radio service..."

In today's world, what does "technical" really mean. To me, "technical" can relate to many different fields, professions, skills, etc. Back in "the good old days" we related "technical" in amateur radio as persons skilled in electronics, great designers of electronic circuits or boxes, the "homebrewer", and probably a number of other descriptors. While electronics still plays an important part to the typical amateur radio operator today, his/her "technical" interests and skills can be far removed from "Grandpa's" version of a technically skilled amateur radio operator.

[W1DAN]

Pete:

I have experienced KA3ZLR's frustration about it being difficult to get the board looking in a new direction. Many times I have suggested an idea or asked for some help only to get the resoinse "we don't do that". I have experienced it myself once in a very direct manner at the mid level and the very top position, one that will stick in my mind FOREVER for it's harshness, kruelness and unwillingness to understand what people had gone through during Katrina. I will not go further into it here, nor will I EVER forget it. Most groups are easily more open in many areas.

The amateur Radio service is a technical service and always will be as we deal in the technical realm of radio-a scienctific discipline. Can't change that. What does change is the technology. I keep abreast of not only the old radio gear but SDR, software code and apps and many digital modes and systems. I try to stay current to take the best advantage of what the sevice has to offer. I need to.

Can't do that if I don't get the information that is in QEX with my membership, so I go around them and learn online. This makes the ARRL less important to me (and others) as they do not serve my needs in all areas. They should.

What I do see that is good with them is their strong promotion in the educational realm, of which I feel there is fresh energy.

73,
Dan
W1DAN

[ka3zlr]

Well that's all fine Pete, But The "Caretakers"  Need to Advance Too. That's what i mean by "Membership Involvement" Let us Back in the door...What better way to run a railroad than to let the railroad workers take part and work together...Sheeze...LOL...

 That's OK, if we ever get on the same page again I'll rejoin immediately, and be more than glad to promote and share the good will, but I'm in No need of the present "Caretakers" Interests and their Stale view it's just Not Fresh thinking.

 With all that can be, and all that can be done up there, and all the possibilities, you'd think they'd open up by now.. I'm Not losing membership(s) here, or dealing with disgruntled members, or pushing ads and hustling a buck at hamfests to stay alive...Bottom Line...You get More out of the Horse if you feed it and let it know you care once in awhile...than just worken it all the time...hey the rest of the world is Deregulating what's their problem... ... Stagnation Much....LOL....How many more ways can we get a nickel out of the hams pocket...

If you believe that the "Caretakers" (I'll assume you mean the Directors and/or Officers) are the problem, it seems your solution is to sit back as a nonmember and let the members do all the work in trying to bring in (by voting and/or recruiting) new management blood. Makes sense; why be part of the member involvement in farming for new Directors and Officers when you can just sit back; wait for the smoke to clear; and then maybe reap the benefits. In my opinion, as a member you can help chart a course by voting for Directors and/or by recruiting new Director candidates. As a nonmember, the best you can do is P&M.

That's fine Pete, it really is not a problem, I'll go one more round and let it go here, all we're asking for is a publication change, simple matter really, those that really enjoy technical articles, technical aspects, hands on reading and so forth, what has drawed alot of us to the service, I'm all for what Don has specified, a simple change in material handling, no big deal here..and it would be no big deal on their end to meet the requirements.

As far as My membership and My ability to accomplish anything with regard to the Service, let's look at the Facts, at the present rate of attrition, Cost Factors, falling membership, falling interest in the service, the ability for the Amateur Today to voice anything with regard to the FCC online, in need of no help, everything is online now everybody is connected information is shared freely The Mouse is Mighty'r than the Pen.. Networking has forgone the Club illusion...I'll reinforce that with our own Huzman, Gary, Stevie QIX Look what they've done some Very Amazing and Professional Work, Data Bases are nickel and dime now...10 years or less, they'll be out of business OM at their present rate of inability to move forward and change.

This is My fault..?, I was always Taught Flexibility is key to advancement, I might be independently P&M'ing, because I have a Hard time dealing with inflexible elements, who feel theirs is the only voice representing anything, better catch up folks...

we're pricing ourselves out of business here...


I'm done...73.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

You said:

As far as My membership and My ability to accomplish anything with regard to the Service, let's look at the Facts, at the present rate of attrition, Cost Factors, falling membership, falling interest in the service, the ability for the Amateur Today to voice anything with regard to the FCC online, in need of no help, everything is online now everybody is connected information is shared freely The Mouse is Mighty'r than the Pen.. Networking has forgone the Club illusion...I'll reinforce that with our own Huzman, Gary, Stevie QIX Look what they've done some Very Amazing and Professional Work, Data Bases are nickel and dime now...10 years or less, they'll be out of business OM at their present rate of inability to move forward and change.

This is My fault..?, I was always Taught Flexibility is key to advancement, I might be independently P&M'ing, because I have a Hard time dealing with inflexible elements, who feel theirs is the only voice representing anything, better catch up folks...

we're pricing ourselves out of business here...
I'm done...73.

Actually, "catching up" with accurate data is always a good thing.

FCC Statistics:

May 2007
Extra: 110,468 - General: 140,151 - Technician: 315,103 - Total: 655,565
Note: Total includes Advanced and Novice quantities both of which are naturally going down.

May 2008
Extra: 113,805 - General: 143,279  - Technician: 318,251 - Total: 658,272
Note: Total includes Advanced and Novice quantities both of which are naturally going down.

ARRL Membership:
2005: 148,887
2006: 148,641
2007: 153,535

And, what other amateur radio organization do you know of, that represents this many amateurs, that can raise the typical amateur P&M to a working playing field at both the domestic and international level.

[W4EWH]

As a nonmember, the best you can do is P&M.

With respect, I'll disagree: I don't think that League membership will always correlate with effectiveness in influencing League policies. After all, I don't have to join a certain political party to be opposed to their choice of Presidential Nominee, and I don't need to visit the Chicken Ranch to be opposed to their business.

The League has changed in response to outside pressures: witness their improved coverage of digital after W2NSD started encouraging its use, and their compromises regarding AM after many non-members made their opposition known.

The League is obliged to support all hams, simply because the proportion of hams who join it is always going to be less than 100%: it's simply more effective to attract more licensees than it is to divide the available pool of potential members.

FWIW. YMMV.

Bill, W1AC
Life Member, ARRL

[ka3zlr]

You said:

As far as My membership and My ability to accomplish anything with regard to the Service, let's look at the Facts, at the present rate of attrition, Cost Factors, falling membership, falling interest in the service, the ability for the Amateur Today to voice anything with regard to the FCC online, in need of no help, everything is online now everybody is connected information is shared freely The Mouse is Mighty'r than the Pen.. Networking has forgone the Club illusion...I'll reinforce that with our own Huzman, Gary, Stevie QIX Look what they've done some Very Amazing and Professional Work, Data Bases are nickel and dime now...10 years or less, they'll be out of business OM at their present rate of inability to move forward and change.

This is My fault..?, I was always Taught Flexibility is key to advancement, I might be independently P&M'ing, because I have a Hard time dealing with inflexible elements, who feel theirs is the only voice representing anything, better catch up folks...

we're pricing ourselves out of business here...
I'm done...73.

Actually, "catching up" with accurate data is always a good thing.

FCC Statistics:

May 2007
Extra: 110,468 - General: 140,151 - Technician: 315,103 - Total: 655,565
Note: Total includes Advanced and Novice quantities both of which are naturally going down.

May 2008
Extra: 113,805 - General: 143,279  - Technician: 318,251 - Total: 658,272
Note: Total includes Advanced and Novice quantities both of which are naturally going down.

ARRL Membership:
2005: 148,887
2006: 148,641
2007: 153,546

And, what other amateur radio organization do you know of, that represents this many amateurs, that can raise the typical amateur P&M to a working playing field at both the domestic and international level.

OK Pete, I did say I'd go one more round and we'll let it go, I won't argue your statistics to date, now take that data, and project it 10 years from now, using the mean average age and older of the licensees now to date, and what do you come up with..your telling me that there's that many replacements coming in, with todays Personal Communications in the state it's in.... On the world scale of things in Communications in 10 years there's the same gravity they enjoy today, then..?.. With all do respect Pete.. I don't see the need in ten years...I hope the property is paid for.

I don't think EMMCOM is gona pull them through either...They'd be much wiser in considering what alot of us have to say today and think about it, They're gona need our Help then...Depending on how many of us are left....and in ten years is the FCC still see a need for our presence....that's another can of worms...

73..

[k4kyv]

Can't do that if I don't get the information that is in QEX with my membership, so I go around them and learn online.

That may not be possible for too much longer if these people are correct.

Corporations Plan To Pull Plug On The Free Internet

Secret Plan To Kill Internet By 2012 Leaked?

[Pete, WA2CWA]

OK Pete, I did say I'd go one more round and we'll let it go, I won't argue your statistics to date, now take that data, and project it 10 years from now, using the mean average age and older of the licensees now to date, and what do you come up with..your telling me that there's that many replacements coming in, with todays Personal Communications in the state it's in.... On the world scale of things in Communications in 10 years there's the same gravity they enjoy today, then..?.. With all do respect Pete.. I don't see the need in ten years...I hope the property is paid for.

I don't think EMMCOM is gona pull them through either...They'd be much wiser in considering what alot of us have to say today and think about it, They're gona need our Help then...Depending on how many of us are left....and in ten years is the FCC still see a need for our presence....that's another can of worms...
73..

It's hard to argue with factual data.

I personally don't believe the current generation of amateurs is any more important then past generations, nor would they be any more important then future generations. In my opinion, even if we cleared out 100,000 hams (of dead wood) from the amateur radio ranks, the amateur radio community still would remain vibrant and alive. Amateur radio and the ARRL have been around for almost a hundred years. I don't see either going away just because the current generation of "seasoned" hams are dying off. Amateur radio "technology" and interests have evolved over time. In my opinion, the ARRL is trying very hard to keep up and evolve with all the technological changes, domestic "radio" changes, international "radio" changes, and the wide variety of amateur radio traditional and new interests that seem to pop up on a regular basis. Being an ARRL member, allows you to help them, actively and directly, in whatever manner you choose,  to chart their future course. It's personally rewarding to be part of the solution.

[W3SLK]

Pete said:

It's personally rewarding to be part of the solution.

Yeah, real rewarding

[K1MVP]

 In my opinion, the ARRL is trying very hard to keep up and evolve with all the technological changes, domestic "radio" changes, international "radio" changes, and the wide variety of amateur radio traditional and new interests that seem to pop up on a regular basis. Being an ARRL member, allows you to help them, actively and directly, in whatever manner you choose,  to chart their future course. It's personally rewarding to be part of the solution.

The above quote,-- sounds like something right out of the QST editorial written by K1ZZ.
 
It would seem to me that "technology" is what is driving ham radio nowadays,--it`s NOT ham radio driving
technology, as WAS the case in years gone by, IMO.

                                                    73, K1MVP
                                           

[ka3zlr]

OK Pete, I did say I'd go one more round and we'll let it go, I won't argue your statistics to date, now take that data, and project it 10 years from now, using the mean average age and older of the licensees now to date, and what do you come up with..your telling me that there's that many replacements coming in, with todays Personal Communications in the state it's in.... On the world scale of things in Communications in 10 years there's the same gravity they enjoy today, then..?.. With all do respect Pete.. I don't see the need in ten years...I hope the property is paid for.

I don't think EMMCOM is gona pull them through either...They'd be much wiser in considering what alot of us have to say today and think about it, They're gona need our Help then...Depending on how many of us are left....and in ten years is the FCC still see a need for our presence....that's another can of worms...
73..

It's hard to argue with factual data.

I personally don't believe the current generation of amateurs is any more important then past generations, nor would they be any more important then future generations. In my opinion, even if we cleared out 100,000 hams (of dead wood) from the amateur radio ranks, the amateur radio community still would remain vibrant and alive. Amateur radio and the ARRL have been around for almost a hundred years. I don't see either going away just because the current generation of "seasoned" hams are dying off. Amateur radio "technology" and interests have evolved over time. In my opinion, the ARRL is trying very hard to keep up and evolve with all the technological changes, domestic "radio" changes, international "radio" changes, and the wide variety of amateur radio traditional and new interests that seem to pop up on a regular basis. Being an ARRL member, allows you to help them, actively and directly, in whatever manner you choose,  to chart their future course. It's personally rewarding to be part of the solution.

 FBOM, that's the thing about personal views they're not necessarily right or necessarily wrong as long as some data is exchanged and ideas are discussed and both walk away friends and keep hamming, I do remember quite well on this very forum Boasting about my membership and support, then some situations transpired and some things changed..and well life went on...Your numbers look good and I Do Hope You Have an ear with them it would behoove them to listen to you..and some of us...Pete..

 My Support for the ARRL as it was established will never change, i may have issues with the transients that effect certain areas and sometimes do some, well, things i think would have or should have Been better left alone But that's life... I'm Not interested in Changing World Communications or effecting the FCC in Amateur Applications uneedingly, just Amateur Radio is enough for me...and it does say Amateur Radio Relay League. OM. Sometimes i think some people forget that..No Insult intended...

 However I do Feel what Don has prescribed is a good future move and it would be a Smart move...I have a feeling that this has been mentioned and placed in certain ears and hey I can hope too.....It would be a Nice middle ground Move...working Smartly is a good thing.

Sometimes being on the outside isn't such a bad thing Pete, you can see and look into things that otherwise you wouldn't look into...and discussions have a more open realism...

It was a Good Clean Debate and i throughly enjoyed it OM...