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Author Topic: ELECTRICITY MISCONCEPTIONS SPREAD BY SCHOOL TEXTBOOKS  (Read 4607 times)
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k4kyv
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Don
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« on: May 26, 2008, 12:53:52 AM »

How does 'electricity' work? If you've learned about electricity from grade-school (and even high school and university) textbooks, then first we have to do some "debunking" and find out how electricity DOESN'T work.

http://amasci.com/miscon/elect.html  (links)

http://amasci.com/miscon/eleca.html#frkel  (text file)
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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K3ZS
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« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2008, 08:41:10 AM »

The military tech schools (in the 60's anyway) taught that electricity is the flow of electrons.    They analyzed tube circuits as electrons  flowing from cathode to plate.   Seems that in electrical engineering it is taught as the flow of current from plate to cathode.   Is this correct? 

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W1EUJ
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« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2008, 09:01:10 AM »

Yep. In physics, that's when they tell you the convention is to consider 'positive-ion' flow, a hold-over from the early days of electricity. Also, in physics, they discuss the flow of electrons in the vacuum - you have to do this 'context-switching', depending on the application. As long as you are consistant, the circuit analysis equations will work just about the same (watch your signs).
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ka3zlr
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« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2008, 09:01:51 AM »

To be quite Honest, when i was back there in Seminary School there was a person there that put forth the proposition of "Electro Motive Force", I was captured immediately by the quantity of that concept...and subsequent study there of... Grin

Do Not Charge any Condensers with a current and throw it at your neighbor...a possible hazardous discharge condition may ensue...i was walked to the principals office on certain occasions...LOL.......... Grin
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KB2WIG
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« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2008, 10:24:18 AM »

here, look at this... you'll get a charge out of it...............

or just leave 'em lying around

klc
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Steve - WB3HUZ
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« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2008, 10:41:19 AM »

Current is not the flow of electrons, it is the flow of charge. Yes, electrons are involved, but it is the amount of charge that is important. The electrons move relatively slowly (something like a mm per second), thus are said to drift. In some materials ions and other positively charged particles (e.g. holes) are involved in the "flow".

And if you want to get really picky, current does not flow. Think of a river. It has a current. But what is flowing? Water, of course, not current.
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K1JJ
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« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2008, 12:15:24 PM »

Current is not the flow of electrons, it is the flow of charge. Yes, electrons are involved, but it is the amount of charge that is important. The electrons move relatively slowly (something like a mm per second), thus are said to drift. In some materials ions and other positively charged particles (e.g. holes) are involved in the "flow".

And if you want to get really picky, current does not flow. Think of a river. It has a current. But what is flowing? Water, of course, not current.


Yes, charge.  ....  just like water on a river, the electrons push one another and the pressure is felt many miles away, even though the electrons (water) move only  a few inches in a given time.


Something that has always amazed me is the relationship between the diameter of wire and the voltage required to pass a certain amount of power.

For example, use a  #24 thin wire as a lead from a 10kv supply. It will easily pass 20kw.  (2 amps)

Now try this with a 10V, 2000 amp supply and try to pass 20KW. (2000 amps)     The #24 wire will pop like a fuse.  Same amount of power. We now need 0000++ cable to pass that same level of power.  (Or to do that same amount of work)

High pressure or "charge" = efficient power transfer.


Anyway, anyone care to elaborate on the higher amps / large wire =  higher voltage / smaller wire    power relationship related to the river flow idea?


The best analogy I can think of is this:

High voltage, small wire: A long line of single file men in a narrow tunnel all pushing 100 pounds each = 100 pounds output.

Low voltage, thick wire:  A long line of men 100 wide in a large tunnel all pushing 1 pound each = 100 pounds ouput.


T
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KE6DF
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« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2008, 01:07:08 PM »

One way to look at it would be like this.

In order to put a 2 amp load on a 10KV power supply,  you would need, by ohm's law, to attach a 5000 ohm resistor across the power supply output terminals. This would take a long piece of 24 gage wire.

Now copper 24 guage wire has resistance of .03 ohms per foot, so you would need a very long piece of wire to get 5000 ohms resistance. About 31 miles worth.

Now that 31 mile long piece of wire would have to dissipate 2 x 10KV = 20,000 watts. But it has a large surface area to do so.

Now, to load a 10v power supply to 200 amps you would need a load with .05 ohms of resistance. This would require a little over 1 1/2 feet of 24 gage copper wire.

In this case, a short piece of wire would have to dissipate 20K. This can't happen, so the wire would melt.

Now if in your example, you put a 100 ft length of 24 gage across your 10KV supply, you would be drawing way more than 2 amps, and chances are that wire would also melt if it didn't burn out your power supply first.
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ka3zlr
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« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2008, 02:06:12 PM »

Now if i could just get that Lawn mower to move like Current, and monitor the potential difference... Cheesy
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WA1GFZ
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« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2008, 10:12:03 PM »

100 men standing in a circle shooting the bull is a flea market
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