Whats for dinner net topic RSWs 67 MGB GT

[WA2TTP Steve]

Triumph TR250 love to drive it Hate to own it

As long as we’re talking about sports cars I’ll have to tell my sad tale. In 1968 I got my
first full time job with ConEd in NYC and figured its a good time to replace the old 56 Olds that I was driving with something a little more respectable. A fellow employee was going into Army and had a 67 OLDs 442 for sale with a 3.90 posi rear and close ratio 4 spd box. I took if for test drive and said I have to have this car. In two weeks it was mine and I was having a ball racing guy’s on Sunrise Hwy and Hempstead Turnpike on Long Island. It did pretty well. To well maybe.
Five weeks after I got it it was stolen from the Wantagh train station, never to be seen again. I figured maybe these cars were just to hot to hold onto and maybe something a little toned down might be left alone. With that in mind I purchased a new 68 Triumph TR 250 with the new released 6 cly engine. Yes I was young and dumb!
I picked up the car from Trencher Motors and drove it away, really enjoying the control and road feel you get in those cars. My only complaint was the engine seemed kind of noisy and I returned to the dealer the same day and complained to him and he replied that this a sports car engine and never going to be a quite a big American car engine. I insisted he make a note of my complaint on the service record for the car,
Fast forward about 8 months into winter. The car was running ok with only one repair to bearing in the transmission that were causing some vibration. “Engine noise about the same. My wedding was in one week and we planned on taking the Triumph to Lake Placid in the middle of winter. I checked manual and it said for that cold of temps I should be running thinner oil so I had it changed.
Got Married and took off for Lake Placid and it seemed to be running ok except the oil pressure was down about 1/3 from normal but still in the normal range. I used the car all week up there on the rare occasions I could get it started in -20 deg weather that week.
Back home I replaced the thin oil with the thicker warm weather blend. The oil pressure increased to where it used to be but over the next few weeks the engine got really noisy, more like a bearing knock. Being the car was out of it’s warranty by this time I figured maybe I’ll look into myself.
So I dropped the oil pan and to my surprise there is a main bearing cap bolt laying in the oil and main bearing cap is loose and other bolt is only finger tight. I took pictures of this and got new bolts and put the whole thing back together. Put oil in her and started it up. Smooth as silk, all the noise I had been bitching about was gone. Now I was really enjoying driving the car. In the back of my mind I felt some damage must have been done to crankshaft due to lack of support but works equals good! About a month later I was cruising down Ocean Parkway heading to Jones Beach at about 70 mph when the engine failed. The rear wheels locked up, bad bad noises from under the hood and white smoke billowing from the front of the car. I jumped out as soon a I steered off the road and watch from a distance to see it was going to catch fire or explode, no such luck!
I popped the hood open and when the smoke cleared I could see the crankshaft had broken and come thru the side of block breaking the starter motor off in the process.
I had it towed to the dealer and started pushing for repair under warranty because of the noises that had be reported since day one. I didn’t have much luck getting the $1200 repair covered by them, While I was at work my new bride took I upon herself to go up the food chain in Leyland motor and got thru to head of east coast service and explained the whole story to him in great detail. He agreed to send one of his supervisor out  to look the engine and records etc. I was impressed my wife took this on but didn’t think we would prevail. They ended up approving the repair and the only cost to me was for fluids and clutch disc. About $60. It took 2 months for them to get parts and do the repair. There wasn’t a short block in the US and think it came by boat.

73,
Steve
WA2TTP

[Ed/KB1HYS]

My son conviced his grandfather to give up his '73 corvette convertable.  Grandpa was going to "get rid of it" as it will no longer pass inspection due to frame rot. He's had it welded a few times but this spring the mech just said that he couldn't do it any more.  It's in a sad state, but Junior and I will be tearing it down and rebuilding it...   Long term father-son project. (probably very very long)...

The engine shot shows how neglected it was. Never put away during winter, just sat under the snow.
The interior is covered in Nicotiene... ah well, nothing money and elbow grease can't fix.

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Yeah Steve, it sounds like you got a car that was finished up at 4:30 (or whenever they quit in the UK) Friday afternoon, or maybe 1st thing Monday morning. Pretty sure my TR-6 had the same straight 6 and had to be one of the best, smoothest, lowest maintenance engines certainly in any of the Brit cars, and most all the US models I drove as well.

Winter driving: something I'd always avoided with those little rigs due to the excessive road salt used up here and their good heaters/low slung nature making for a rust nightmare. Unfortunately ended up having to drive the last MGB through one winter. Broke the choke cable in Dec/Jan sometime. Discovered that turning on the electric fuel pump for a few clicks, pumping the pedal twice, then holding it down resulted in instant starting even at -20 and colder. Never did change the oil to a lighter grade. The car had been converted to a single 12v batt which no doubt helped, but it was a great car in the snow with good tires on the back, just a bit....drafty around the windows and uninsulated convertible top. Heavy gloves were often required even though the car had an excellent heater.

Probably would've been seen as a heretic by some for using a Subaru electric fuel pump when the original gave out, but it was an easy and quick fix. That's nothing compared to using guitar strings to replace a burned off throttle cable caused by a loose ground on the engine.

[W3RSW]

OK you radio mechanics;
Remember the blanking sleeve you put in the thermostat well in summer in place of a 160 deg. thermostat?  Did that religeously every summer. MG's and pretty much all of British cars were made for a 35 to 80 degree climate.  Ol' Chuck recommended that practice too.  Knew all the tricks to keep an MG in his shop.  Since I lived in WV (the land of "Far Far Away")and he'd married my sister, he divulged all the critical stuff.

'Bout the blanking sleeve.... Did the same thing in a Ford 8N tractor since I'd become such an expert and forgot to take it out the next winter.  Yeah, frozen, broken cylinder.... dumb, dumb, dumb.... no water temp. guage on the tractor and didn't wake up until I noticed that the usual warm 'heater' fan wind I'd count on in winter wasn't there.  - that was in retrospect, a hint unheeded, after I started up a frozen engine.

Ed, just saw on HDTV your corevtte go at auction for $60,000, red and all, and have to admit the restoration is a huge bear staring you in the face.  I guess most of those cherry cars are restored from the ground up.

But, hey, I see it runs, the fan blades are blurred in the pix.  Take a little hammer to the hood fit, rub out the paint and you'll be like new
Oh man.  Almost makes ya cry to see all the work required.... yet too good a car to toss. 

[NE4AM]

'MGB-GT' - from the album 'Mirror Blue' by Richard Thompson

Oh I've got a little car and she might go far
She's the mistress of my heart now
She's a '65 with an overdrive
And I fixed her in every part now
Two in the front and two in the back
110 on the old Hog's Back
My MGB-GT, she's a runner now
MGB-GT
Oh my MGB-GT, she's a runner now

Oh I welded the sills and the old floor pan
Cut the rust with the torch and the hacksaw
Took the Rostyles off, put the spoked wheels on
Got a brand new Salisbury axle
When I come to town the girls all smile
They say "Here's the man with the retro style"
My MGB-GT, she's a runner now
MGB-GT
Oh my MGB-GT, she's a runner now

Lockheed discs and twin SUs
Original chrome on the grille now
She looks like a dream in her racing green
Competition's standing still now
I sprayed up her body, I strenghtened the frame
I stripped her right down and I built her up again

Now an Alpine's fine if you've got the time
And a Healey'll set you back some
And a TR4 costs a little bit more
But it don't have the same attraction
Hard top handy, in case of the weather
I don't care if it rains forever
In my MGB-GT, she's a runner now
MGB-GT
In my MGB-GT, she's a runner now
MGB-GT
In my MGB-GT, she's a runner now

[W2NBC]

Hi Folks,

I have been following this thread with GREAT interest as I have been a sports car freak from 17 years old to my advancing age of 51 (errgh).. The Prince of Darkness (Lucas) has followed me like a specter from project to project, always forgetting the tribulations but never forgetting the passion and excitement of the British car!

Some of the cars owned that I can remember (some more than one):
Austin Healey-  Sprite, Bugeye, 3000 MkII
Austin-              Mini Cooper S
Lotus-               Elan
MG-                 MGA , MG Midget, TD, MGB, MGC
Jaguar-             XKE (63), XJS 12 cyl.
Rover-              3500?
Sunbeam-        Alpine
Triumph-          GT6, TR-6, TR-4A, Spitfire

These are the BRITISH cars, not the German, Italian and others owned.....

Anyway, TOO many cars.. wasting way too much MONEY,  (I still have an MGB an an MGTD)..
But I have a story to convey about the pride of ownership, and the typical dynamics of  my experience with the Brits..

I was 20, and all was GREAT with the world (remember?).. I had been working as a Lifeguard in South Norwalk, CT. for the summer, and had saved just enough to make a purchase of an Austin Healey 3000 MK II that was advertised in the local rag..It was a dream car for me, having already suffered with Spitfires, Midgets, etc. SO I bought it with ALL my saved funds for the entire summer..
A girlfriend, (soon to be my first wife), was with me as I pulled the British racing green 3000 out into the world, grinning ear to ear. The straight 6 purred like a tractor (ha,ha) as I entered the entrance to the Merrit Parkway heading south to southern CT.
The senses are bombarded by wind, the smell of oil, and just plain FUN.. Everything was just great as I proceeded to accelerate to more than 65..  A perfect ride home UNTIL.......  I noticed an object on my left side..Yes an object..WAIT.. it was a WHEEL..yes a wheel,  MY wire wheel rolling perfectly off into the woods as my car suddenly (yet remarkably) dropped down and skid off to the shoulder.. I can still remember the wire wheel and tire bouncing off deep into the woods as I sat with racing heart trying to take it all in.......

Anyway, I have really enjoyed reading all your experiences with the PRINCE..
73,

Jeff W2NBC

[w3jn]

I worked in a small repair shop that specialized in Jags and other odd european cars when I was in college.  I learned to truly hate Citroens and developed a moderate disdain for British engineering.  I found it handy to have a fire extinguisher handy at all times, esp when working on a Jag V-12.

My dad had a Sunbeam Tiger.  THe only bad thing about that car was it really seemed to eat rear tires for some reason

[w8khk]

Back in the mid 70s, I was commuting from Fort Lauderdale to Miami every day in a gas guzzling '68 American Motors Ambassador with a 343 cu in engine.  A neighbor had an old Triumph Spitfire for sale.  Had a new red paint job, good upholstery, and a new tonneau cover, but no top.  I thought that would be a great way to save on gas.  After looking it over, I found the engine was blown, and it had no electrical wiring at all, either it had burned up, or someone took it out with the intention of restoring the car.  I bought it anyway, and rebuilt the engine and transmission.  I recall pulling the head, then my father in law and I lifted the block and put it in the trunk of my wife's car to have it bored and boiled.  No engine hoist necessary for this toy!  Then I rewired the whole thing from scratch, and put in a motorola 12 volt alternator to power all my toys.  Even used a center-off spring-loaded toggle switch for the turn signals.  I cut a sheet of aluminum and punched holes for all the switches, lights, and gauges on the dash.  Never had any problem with the electrical system, I guess I missed out on all the lucas fun.  Ran an SB-101 with a huge webster loading coil on 75, it looked like one of Gil's old cartoons!  I drove it until the traffic got so bad that I was afraid of looking up and seeing the bottoms of 18 wheelers on each side of me, so I sold it and got something a bit safer.  But I miss the fun of driving that car, I could take corners in a four-wheel drift at 40 mph and never worry about rolling it.  Try that with the typical SUV of today!

[Ed/KB1HYS]

Ed, just saw on HDTV your corevtte go at auction for $60,000, red and all, and have to admit the restoration is a huge bear staring you in the face.  I guess most of those cherry cars are restored from the ground up.

But, hey, I see it runs, the fan blades are blurred in the pix.  Take a little hammer to the hood fit, rub out the paint and you'll be like new
Oh man.  Almost makes ya cry to see all the work required.... yet too good a car to toss. 

Yea, the boy and I got under it today. Lots of rust and splitting steel.  It still runs. We drove it around for a day or so as the tags were still good when we got it, and I knew it would be a long time coming out again. The engine is from a '68 rebuilt with 38k on it.  The Hood and front end were repaired replaced after my father-in-law smacked a phone pole (ouch) That's the reason for the misalignments there.  But we got two real mechanics in the family, one of which has done a restoration on this same year/model. Well, a '72 anyway.   First thing we need is a rolling chassis.  Then everything comes off, gets clean/blasted or replaced and repainted and bolted onto the new chassis. 
The project is very motivational for junior too, as I got him a bunch of parts catalogs and showed him how much parts cost...        Luckily a chevy is a chevy and there are a lot of parts that are common, and once you drop the 'Vette designation they are suddenly much less expensive.     

I think the only bear in the batch will be rebuilding the stock AC as it was litteraly hacked out after the wreck. I think the cost of the R-12 refrigerant will be more than a set of tires...  Who puts AC in a convertable anyway??

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Johnny, those Tigers were deathtraps for many. Tiny car (Alpine) not designed for that much weight over the front wheels, tended to want to go straight in the corners at high speed. More than a few wanna-be hot shot drivers took their last ride in one. Damned cool looking, though. Reminded me of a mini-57 Chevy and I lusted for one as a kidlet.

The senses are bombarded by wind, the smell of oil, and just plain FUN.. Everything was just great as I proceeded to accelerate to more than 65..

That's the part you don't get with your typical German/Swedish/Eurocar, and well worth the effort and occasional annoyance of, say...loosing your lights at night. Dashboard lights were the worst I ever lost. Still better than having them flicker, though.

  A perfect ride home UNTIL.......  I noticed an object on my left side..Yes an object..WAIT.. it was a WHEEL..yes a wheel,  MY wire wheel rolling perfectly off into the woods as my car suddenly (yet remarkably) dropped down and skid off to the shoulder.. I can still remember the wire wheel and tire bouncing off deep into the woods as I sat with racing heart trying to take it all in.......

Had this happen to me at low speed with my '78 Saab 99 Turbo, and later with a '92 Ford Ranger at 75+. Remember clearly thinking....wow, I have wheels just like that one rolling into the median...then figuring it out. With the Ranger, it eventually settled down onto the right disk which it burned about 4 inches off as I glided down the off ramp and into the grass. Last I saw of the wheel, it had met a tree and headed straight up 100' or more, out of the view of my windshield. When I later found it, one side of the thick aluminum alloy wheel was nicely flattened - either from meeting the tree or becoming re-acquainted with the ground.

'Sports cars' of any type IMO, weren't intended as daily/regular transportation for families or Buick drivers, and shouldn't be held to the same level of today's econobox cars from Japan or even the Ford or Chevy of their time. More of a toy, with exclusive control over who gets to ride shotgun with you. I never had the issues with any English car some relate having, perhaps because my mindset at the time didn't see it as such. They were also used cars, and not built like a Rolls Royce, so my expectations were adjusted to a 'tinkering' mentality from the get-go. Regular use did seem to result in fewer problems, though.

How many people remember the 911/930s or big block American cars where you had to lift or drop the engine just to change the plugs? Talk about annoying. 

Yet we still drove them. Not unlike the old radios some of us enjoy being tormented by.

[Bill, KD0HG]

They were also used cars, and not built like a Rolls Royce, so my expectations were adjusted to a 'tinkering' mentality from the get-go. Regular use did seem to result in fewer problems, though.

That's a very good point.

No one can or wants to do minor maintenance on vehicles any more. Not only English cars, but it wasn't that long ago, it seems, that you could pretty much repair whatever went wrong with a vehicle with nothing more than a Craftsman tool box right on the side of the road. Until the last 20 years or so, easy repairs was a big positive for American pickup trucks. Lots of room to work on top and underneath. I've replaced broken U-joints, fuel pumps, transfer case shafts, electrics and front suspension parts in convenient parking lots. I owned a VW Beetle, threw a rod in Missouri, and swapped the engine out in the back lot of a gas station so I could get home. To swap the engine in my '02 pickup with a rebuild would cost maybe $9,000 and a week in the shop.

Today, I don't believe the public even knows how to work that spark plug wrench.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

It's just the progression in the sophistication of the car. Yes, more people used to work on their cars, because they could. But in years before that many people built their own cars. And so it goes.

They were also used cars, and not built like a Rolls Royce, so my expectations were adjusted to a 'tinkering' mentality from the get-go. Regular use did seem to result in fewer problems, though.

That's a very good point.

No one can or wants to do minor maintenance on vehicles any more. Not only English cars, but it wasn't that long ago, it seems, that you could pretty much repair whatever went wrong with a vehicle with nothing more than a Craftsman tool box right on the side of the road. Until the last 20 years or so, easy repairs was a big positive for American pickup trucks. Lots of room to work on top and underneath. I've replaced broken U-joints, fuel pumps, transfer case shafts, electrics and front suspension parts in convenient parking lots. I owned a VW Beetle, threw a rod in Missouri, and swapped the engine out in the back lot of a gas station so I could get home. To swap the engine in my '02 pickup with a rebuild would cost maybe $9,000 and a week in the shop.

Today, I don't believe the public even knows how to work that spark plug wrench.

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Bill, one of my favorite and easiest rigs to maintain was the Ser. III Land Rover 88. Always figured the thing could be field-stripped with a couple screwdrivers, crescent wrench, hammer, and a pair of vice grips. Especially with the military split rims. You could even fix your own flats!

Only thing I had to pay to repair on those vehicles was a starter or generator/alternator. Just didn't have the smarts to mess with those beyond the voltage regulator. Until the XJ-6L came along, then the US-Made Borg-Warner tranny needed rebuilding, adjusting.....not cheap, either. The electrically-switched dual saddle tanks were pretty cool, though.

That's the car that really gave Brit cars a bad name. It did have its issues, but much of it seems related to people driving a higher-end European car who were used to driving an Oldsmobile. Complaints galore, often followed by a GM 350 transplant.

It's just the progression in the sophistication of the car. Yes, more people used to work on their cars, because they could. But in years before that many people built their own cars. And so it goes.

Right on the money, Steve. Sounds a lot like the discussion about ricebox vs tube rig vs homebrew rig. And all because they dropped the code requirement!! 

Technically-challenged (appliance?) driver meets technically-demanding/hands-on vehicle.

"What a piece of crap this is, all I did with my other car was add gas and turn the key. When it broke, I paid someone to fix it."

Fortunately, there's enough different vehicle types to suit the needs of most folks. Right on down to the Hoveround. 

[Carl WA1KPD]

 http://www.mez.co.uk/lucas.html

[AJ1G]

Carl - that Lucas link appears as outdated.  Got a 404 type error message when I tried it.  Then again, since Lucas is involved, might be due to high humidity at the page's home server.

To me the only thing scarier than depending on a Brit car with Lucas electrics was dropping down the hatch on an ex-Brit Canadian diesel boat I rode once and seeing the "Lucas" logo on the switchboards in the engine room!

[Carl WA1KPD]

Try now Chris. there was something wrong with the link address I posted.

I must have been in a Lucas mood

[W3RSW]

Eeewh, a revived thread.  Must be Mother's Day

Great Lucas page.  It would be funny 'cept way too many stories were true!
Pathetic...

[N5RLR]

And the Haynes page isn't too far off the mark, either.