Ute Poles

[KB2WIG]

Do anyone have experience with using phone poles fer antenna suports?

I'm wondering if its true that one can purchase the poles 'cheap'?

Any other information or comments accepted.

klc

[k4kyv]

I have heard many people say that a small steel tower would be cheaper than what it would cost to purchase a wooden utility pole and have it installed.

The situation may be far different at various localities.  In 1981 I purchased a pair of used 25' poles from a local third party company for $40 each, and that price included delivery and installation.

I was astounded at the quote they gave, but I didn't question it.  I had the poles delivered, erected and paid for before anyone had time to notify me that a possible mistake had been made in calculating the bill.

Speaking of erections, check out this one:

http://www.k6rix.com/kfitower.html

[KD6VXI]

I have heard many people say that a small steel tower would be cheaper than what it would cost to purchase a wooden utility pole and have it installed.

The situation may be far different at various localities.  In 1981 I purchased a pair of used 25' poles from a local third party company for $40 each, and that price included delivery and installation.

I was astounded at the quote they gave, but I didn't question it.  I had the poles delivered, erected and paid for before anyone had time to notify me that a possible mistake had been made in calculating the bill.

Speaking of erections, check out this one:

http://www.k6rix.com/kfitower.html

Dino is a personal friend of mine.

You should see the Continental transmitter they have, and are REPLACING that drove the old tower that was destroyed in the plane crash.

Sure wish I could get the current transmitter unit. 

Dino has some cool pictures of some tower installations.  His part time "job" is removing and installation of towers in the Los Angeles and surrounding areas.

--Shane

[WA1GFZ]

When I was a kid a guy hit a pole down the street from the house. A couple layers of wood got shaved off. When it was replaced I asked the guys if I could have it. They were more than happy to give it away. They pulled into the driveway and saw the lawn was too soft to drill a hole and stand it up. They were going to install it. I said what the heck just put it beside the driveway. My OM comes home and I show him the family project. it was so heavy we only got about 30 feet in the air and it still holds the clothes line today  over 40 years later.

[KF1Z]

That USED to be the case.....

The power co used to give them away for the asking, when they were replacing them....

Now, well now you have to be real close friends with a PoCo employee...

They are expensive!!

$400  + around here....

I don't know why, except maybe 'cause they are all pressure-treated.

[k4kyv]

...You should see the Continental transmitter they have, and are REPLACING that drove the old tower that was destroyed in the plane crash.

Sure wish I could get the current transmitter unit. 

Dino has some cool pictures of some tower installations.  His part time "job" is removing and installation of towers in the Los Angeles and surrounding areas.

It looks like they replaced the original base insulator along with the tower.  The first photos show the original one, that came in two pieces, lying around the base of the old tower.

I hope Dino salvaged that too, as expensive as those things are, although the ones used for that tower are much too big for any amateur radio installation I have ever seen.

That's how I obtained the base insulator for my 160m vertical.  A station in Alabama lost its tower when a guy anchor corroded through.  When they replaced the tower, they didn't want to mount the brand new tower on a 40-years-old base insulator, so they installed a new insulator and shoved the old one in the corner of the transmitter building.  When I was ready to put up my tower, I priced a new base insulator for Rohn 25 at $512 in 1980 dollars.  Hoisy, W4CJL was my contact person with the station, and they sold me their discarded one, which was much  larger and heavier, for either $75 or $100.

I had to make an adaptor plate because the holes in the insulator end cap didn't  match up with the mounting holes in the Rohn base section.  That cost me a few extra bux, using a scrap piece of 3/4" thick steel  plate that I took to a machine shop where they cut out a circle, and drilled and tapped six threaded holes, which I used to bolt the adaptor plate to the tower base and the insulator to the plate.

A couple of years ago at a local hamfest I picked up a used base insulator that was custom made for the Rohn 25, probably identical to the $512 one, for $25.  I have it stored away as a spare, in case something ever happened to my original one.  At the likely price for a new one in to-day's dollarettes, that was cheap insurance.

[KB2WIG]

The wife is more accepting of Wood, than of cold steel. Maybee some well casing? I'll probably throw up a cloud burner untill I get settled in. The lay out of the land, along with the wood poles, will let me put up a 80m dipole. I think I can put up a bobtail for 40m if I place the poles in the right place.  The property will suport (2)  520' beverages end to end. I'm just trying to do it cheep, and without negative feedback from    ...........  klc

[KC8OPP]

I am using two poles here along with a number of TV style towers.  The polls were free for the taking and I installed them myself, something I will never do again.  They are used to hold up the ends of wire antennas and keep the 160M loop up in the air.

They do work as advertised, but maintenance is a problem.  To get to the top I have to borrow scafolding, set it up, do the maintenance then return the scafolding.  The antenna maintenance usually only takes a few minutes but all the extra work takes a couple of hours.

Problems with a steel tower, clip on the belt, go up and fix the problem.  Lots eaiser to get up and down and quicker too.

If I had it to do again, I would find cheap TV style towers instead of the polls.

Around here you can find towers free for the taking as folks switch to cable.  Some paint and new bolts and your good to go.

Roger
KC8OPP

[w8khk]

KFI Tower update - not quite vertical anymore...

http://www.k6rix.com/

[flintstone mop]

I have had a few experiences using utility poles. You usually do not need a permit to have one erected on your property. If you have a friend at your friendly power company, you might be able to get a pole that is being replaced, but you risk that there is a reason for replacement........hit by a car.....storm damage.....or  termites.
I'm attaching a pic of mine. It's a 70 footer and it was a new pole. Total cost was $6500 installed. I still believe that I cudda got a 100 foot lattice steel tower for the same price, but then the money grabbers come around with engineering reports, inspections, local ordinances against radio towers, etc. My pole will be there after I'm gone to the "great radio transmitter in the sky"
They sank the pole in a big 8 foot hole and it's been there for the last three years with the antenna load you see. Dipole and AS3 Cushcraft aerial.
Fred

[flintstone mop]

I forgot to mention
There are pulleys installed to maintain the dipole. The Yagi would need maintenance from a crane @ $500 for 4 hrs rental. So far, knock on galvanized screws, no problems.

Fred

[k4kyv]

Of course you could climb the pole if you are brave.  But even with secure climbing gear I would not feel comfortable climbing an unguyed pole simply because it would sway with my weight.  I can stand on the ground and look at the thing and easily convince myself that it is solid enough to hold me during a 100 mph wind, but once on the pole and feel the sway, I feel like it is going to topple over with every minuscule movement and I can't relax - that in itself a formula for disaster.  Plus, if you ever wanted to see a gruesome sight, just look at the result when a utility worker "burns" a pole.

I put up my 127' Rohn 25 tower single-handedly, but I had to temporarily guy each section as I went up.  Once I would climb onto the 2nd section above the top guy point, I would get cold feet and white knuckles.  Guyed with the same #10 copperweld I used for the antenna, so that the tower felt solid, I was perfectly comfortable all the way to the top, working on the tower and viewing the scenery, even though I knew perfectly well that the temporary guys would offer little protection if the tower actually did start to topple.

I even felt a little uncomfortable the time I went to the top of the Eiffel Tower, when the whole thing would noticeably sway during a puff of breeze, despite the fact that those thousands of tons of steel had stayed put for over a half century.

Regarding climbing wooden poles, my friend (now SK) who worked for the power company strongly advised against those screw-in metal cleats you sometimes see used as climbing steps on utility poles.  He told me he had seen them rusted completely through right at the entry point to the wooden pole, and he had also seen loose ones where the wood had rotted out from water seeping into the hole around the screw.

[flintstone mop]

Hi All,
I haven't seen any worker climbing poles in the last several years. Everyone seems to be using trucks with bucket attachments or cranes. That was the one thing that scared me away from working for Ma Bell. You had to be able to "climb" the pole using the spurs that would attach to your workshoes.

Fred

[KD6VXI]

Hi All,
I haven't seen any worker climbing poles in the last several years. Everyone seems to be using trucks with bucket attachments or cranes. That was the one thing that scared me away from working for Ma Bell. You had to be able to "climb" the pole using the spurs that would attach to your workshoes.

Fred

If memory serves me well enough, we called those Gaffs.  Looked like the end of a harpoon stuck on to your steel toe boot.

Power people have to do the same thing.  Here in So Cal, they ensure they have plenty of power pole climbers, since we have so many power distribution systems that are almost completely inaccessible by trucks. 

--Shane

[John K5PRO]

I had considered wooden poles for a long time, even talked a bucket truck guy from power ute into helping install with his rig on the weekend. However, when it came down to it, I really like the ability to get up the apex and check the insulators, the bolts, and add a wire here and there. I wasn't so keen on climbing one, even with gaffs and a belt. Splinter in the thighs isn't my cup o' tea. Big heavy leather chaps are a neccesity i suppose.

Then i found that by looking around at SK's estates, old two way sites, and such, one can usually find a tower.

So far I have a 30 foot aluminum self supporting tower that was made by Universal, that has been airborne at my place for 15 years. I paid $150 for it, a trap dipole (B&W) and a tri band cushcraft yagi, and took it down from a SK's yard. The other one, a 50 foot crank up, I got a few years ago, from another SK's. It was a lot harder to take down as an apple orchid had grown around it, since it was installed in the 1960s. To lay it over, I had to basically crash into the center of one tree. The widow was a bit upset, but when it was gone, she didn't complain anymore, and it didn't cost a penny, just a day of very hard work.

So I like this approach, find the home of a former ham or SK, and talk to the widow. Usually they are just happy to see those things go away, with liability, etc. Nice that you get a free lightning rod out of it, something that is extra for a wooden pole.

[W3SLK]

Man my spike climbing days were over years ago. That crap is for the birds. Nowadays, I use a high reach, (cherry picker). You can usually rent them fairly cheaply but if your aerial is out in 'un-chartered waters' you may want to look at something else. When ever I get a tower, I'm getting a crank-down/tilt-over. I don't want to be up on a stick when I'm 70, (if I should live that long).

[k4kyv]

Hank, W2IQ climbed until his dying day.  In his mid to late 80's, he had a heart attack while working on his antenna, and fell and broke his neck.  He didn't survive the dual trauma.

I understand that's what happen to Mike Premus, W2OY.  He died of a heart attack while up on his tower.

If that is ever going to happen to me, I would just as soon be up on the tower as somewhere else when the moment arrived.  Better for it to happen while working on an antenna than while driving a car.

I'll probably keep on climbing until I no longer feel physically able, but I don't know if to-day I would have the stamina to put up a 127' tower single handedly, as I did in the early 80's, which included digging the holes for the concrete base and guy anchors, all by hand.

[KB2WIG]

I don't have any issues with climbing, as I don't climb.... ..   Its starting to look like i'll be using surplus antenna poles, or maybee well casing. There's a design in an old ARRRL Ant Book fer a 60' footer.   klc

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Gaffs or spikes attach to climbers ('spurs') that are strapped to the inside of the leg and instep, not the toe of the boot. There are two type: tree spikes and pole spikes, with tree spikes being considerably longer to get through layers of bark and into the actual wood. Don't make the mistake of using pole spikes for tree climbing, not a good feeling when they break loose.

And tree spikes are harder to sink into a pole because of their length, which creates another set of problems.

The biggest problem with the screw-in pole pegs is having them come loose and fall out. They aren't what you'd call 'easy' to install to start with, and wiggling or getting them in crooked and trying to pound them into alignment makes for problems later. Not to mention the whole auger-alignment fun involved with drilling the pilot holes.

As for used poles, they used to give them away here if you lived near where they were putting in the replacement(s). It saved them the time and expense of transporting.

Of course, sometimes the pole being pulled isn't worth a damn. But more often in recent years, it was a case of installing taller poles or moving the entire line across the road. I've never witnessed them re-using poles, they always stick up a new one.

Biggest issue today would be the liability hassle, especially if they gave you the pole and set it for you. Thank a trial lawyer.

[KD6VXI]

Of course, sometimes the pole being pulled isn't worth a damn. But more often in recent years, it was a case of installing taller poles or moving the entire line across the road. I've never witnessed them re-using poles, they always stick up a new one.

Biggest issue today would be the liability hassle, especially if they gave you the pole and set it for you. Thank a trial lawyer.

We are replacing our wood poles with a fiberglass setup here in the central cal area now.  Talked to a climber yesterday, and he said he was getting ready to sink a replaced wood pole.  Nothing wrong with it, just was replaced with a fiberglass unit.

Maybe you can find these kinds where you guys are, as well.

--Shane

[WA1GFZ]

My knees were knocking when I sided the 30 foot peak of the house from a ladder. I would much rather be on the tower at 70 feet strapped to it. Ladder could slide. If I crap out up there feed me to the crows. Sure better than an undertaker ripping my family off.

[KM8AM]

I just priced eight 70' new class-3 power poles from the local supplier.

They're just right to replicate Harry Steffan's (W8RHZ, SK) 4 half waves in-phase that I used to hear him use when I was a kid in upstate NY. (I tried to attach Harry's QSL)

Around here, anything over 60' need special trucking, so the price for the pole, trucking, and installation is $2k per pole.  I can't plant steel that cheaply.

Our plan is to install stainless hardware on the ground with a stainless loop of cable through the pulley.  That way we can reconfigure as we want without climbing.

The good 'ol EPA has just about killed getting pull-out poles unless they're from your own property.  I have a few from when they changed the poles here on the farm.  Problem is that they're junk by the time they're replaced.  I use them to hang farm gates on, nothing more.  Same is true for railroad ties.  The EPA drove the disposal cost so high that the RR just piles them on the right of way so they don't have to deal with them.

Ken, WA2JQW/8
Urbana, OH