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Author Topic: @&#%$#^# Intermittents!  (Read 4413 times)
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k4kyv
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Don
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« on: February 12, 2008, 02:07:40 PM »

I had a near Derb-like radio frustration experience the past weekend.

My relay system has had an annoying flaky T/R relay problem for the past several months, but I have tolerated it, since I can usually fix it whenever it acts up by clicking the T/R switch several times with the main rig switched to standby.

I decided to re-route some of my 500-ohm audio lines this weekend.  I use a patch panel, and when I run the minidisc player to the transmitter, I have had to flip a couple of switches and plug in a patch cord, always forgetting to turn the monitor off when going back to the live mic, resulting in an ear-splitting acoustical feedback squeal.  So I re-routed some of the lines and added a 4PDT switch that allows me to flip a single switch to go from live mic to recorder, and automatically activate the T/R function of the CQbot.

When I got the new switch installed and everything rewired, the first time I tried it out, the audio level was there, but down about 40dB.  Checked everything out, no wiring errors, no shorts, no loose wires, and the switch contacts checked out OK.  I cleaned the male patch cord, thinking there might be corrosion, since I don't change the patches around very often.  That seemed to fix the problem.

The very first time I tried the new setup, the old T/R relay problem got to be really annoying, with the transmitter dropping out in the middle of transmissions, or not going into transmit at all, so I decided it was time to bite the bullet and try to fix the problem once and for all.  I pulled out the relay control unit and the little perf-board relay board, and examined the wiring.  Nothing loose, but I noticed that I could wiggle one of the relays and another relay in the circuit would go spastic. While probing the wiring with the DVM, I accidentally shorted something out, sparks flew, and the trouble cleared up.  But I put the whole thing down to eat dinner, and when I returned, it was acting spastic again.  Never could find anything obviously wrong with the relay or its associated wiring, so I decided to replace the relay, since I have a supply of spares on hand, and hope that might cure the problem.  After I rewired the new relay back into the circuit, it too caused one of the other relays to go spastic whenever I wiggled it.  But then I realised it was causing a different one of the other relays to drop in and out when the same one was wiggled.  Then as before, I accidentally shorted something out, sparks flew, and the trouble cleared up once again.  But this time, I never could make it flake out again, so I put the thing back together, and so far, no more malfunction.  But it frustrates me that I never was able to definitively find the cause of the original problem and I still don't know whether or not it is fixed,  since the original problem would occur, then it might work perfectly for weeks before it occurred again.

When I got it all back together, I decided to try the transmitter on the air to make sure everything was OK.  The audio problem was back!  Microphone output was 40 dB down once again.  So I started probing around with an audio level meter to see if I could find where I was losing signal.  A meter probe slipped, and bingo!  The audio was  normal once again!  I was tempted to take a sledge hammer to the whole thing by then.

I took a cotton swab and cleaned the interior of all the patch panel receptacles with some WD-40, and the swab came out covered with black crud, so maybe it was oxidation of one of the receptacles in the patch panel that was killing the audio, but I won't know until some time has passed and the problem hasn't re-occurred.

And I still have an infrequently recurrence of severe audio distortion that cures itself when I turn up the gain and shout into the mic, but never sustains itself long enough for me to track down which stage is causing the problem.  That first happened several years ago, but it hasn't happened for a couple of months now. That,too, may remain in hiding for months at a time before recurring at the most inopportune time.  All I know is that it occurs somewhere between the speech amp and the main audio line that goes to the selected transmitter.

This is very typical of my radio malfunctions.  Very rarely do I ever have a simple, straight-forward textbook failure.  99% of the time, it is something bizarre, off-the-wall that you would never expect in a million years, and intermittent

 Angry Angry Angry Angry Angry
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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k4kyv
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Don
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« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2008, 07:32:47 PM »

The relays are the little clear plastic covered ones about a cubic inch in size, with solder lugs that also fit into a socket.  Unfortunately I don't have any sockets that fit, so have to solder in all the leads.  Very difficult to remove the cover without damaging the bakelite base so cleaning them is a questionable option.  The sequencer malfunctioned one time the first time I turned it on this afternoon,  so I replaced the questionable relay with another one.  So far, no problem.

I have 30 of those little relays stored in a box, so no scarcity of spares.  The thing worked perfectly for 4 years before the 1st failure.  I guess that's to be part of the maintenance, just like replacing tubes every now and again.
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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This message was typed using the DVORAK keyboard layout.
http://www.mwbrooks.com/dvorak
The Slab Bacon
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« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2008, 09:35:02 AM »

FWIW, after doing and supervising many years of electrical field service, I have oft times come to the conclusion that there were 3 devices invented solely to make an ass out of the repair technician. The "ice cube" relay, the microswitch, and the Moulex connector. These 3 devices will always bite you any time they can with funky intermittant operation and connections. My motto on these items has always been "when in doubt, yank it out".

How many times haye Y'all had the scenario: "It wasnt working untill I took the cover off, and now I cant get it to screw up!!" Been there, done that on quite a few occasions. So now, If I have even the least little bit of doubt they're out of there!.

If you are doing the repair work on a professional basis, it is definately better to hit the customer up for the replacement of a few inexpensive "expendable" parts than to have multiple callbacks and really piss them off!

                                                                      The Slab Bacon
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"No is not an answer and failure is not an option!"
ab3al
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« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2008, 09:53:41 AM »

i agree... the other luxury we had at the telco was about 200 spares in the c/o of every part.. when in doubt swap it out 2 or 3 times..
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WU2D
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CW is just a narrower version of AM


« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2008, 10:22:02 PM »

I have been bringing a WS-19 back to life and making good progress. It is a blast to use on CW. Of course something had to give and it developed two intermittents:

1. Loss of drive - 1 W out instead of the normal 16W out. The metering shows that the drive is going down.

2. An arc over snap which is totally random but has no effect on the RX or TX functions other than scaring the op. This one is still there. My troubleshooting idea is to remove the unit from the case and stare at it with the lights out and increase voltage slowly until I see the arc over. I call this the Frankenstein method.


No 1 got fixed by using the wiggle and RAP method. I know what you are thinking but it is not something that WA1GFZ did with a girl in the gym in high school.

You take an insulated probe like a plastic tuning tool and push all of the wires and components. No Joy. Rap- take the back side of a screwdriver and rap the cans and heavy components. This revealed the problem was inside a shielded box holding the output inductors of the transmit mixer - the stage just before the driver. A couple of solder reflows later and all fixed!

Mike WU2D


* WS19Newcas.jpg (208.51 KB, 1980x1359 - viewed 425 times.)
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These are the good old days of AM
W3RSW
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Rick & "Roosevelt"


« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2008, 01:59:30 PM »

Yeah Don. tough stuff.  Hope your cleaning job works.  Oh, I did hear you on the air a couple of nights ago. Very strong sig. from Tenn and almost turned on the 32V to say hello, but the band was going long to the guys you were working farther north and you signed.

So let me tell you about a cleaning job that didn't work....

I used to work for Birdwell, Div. of SSC/Raytheon years ago in the down hole logging business.  About 95% of our connection problems were due to connectors.  -Heavy duty Cannon multi-pin jobbies, between the various panels, the logging tools, you name it. Very rarely would the electronics go south in the individual panels.
   I distinctly remember telling a customer that a HV rectifier in the rate meter (scope) power supply had gone bad, sending the rigger off to a store in a nearby town to buy one, knowing fully well that wasn't the real problem. We never found it that day so go a big zero and no call backs for awhle from that particular shop of Quaker State.
    Of all things we found that the particular electric tool (commonly called a guard log) that we'd cleaned that day before lowering it down the hole was the fault.  We'd sprayed it down with detergent and found back at the shop that it was conductive fluid detergent.  Last thing you need between sensing plates on a highly senstitive tool looking for microvolt differences between the plates.

Someone else on this board recently said they worked in well logging. Might have some good stories too. Be interesting to see how the equipment has changed from the days of potentiometer driven ink graphing pens, DC chopper ampliifers, etc. 
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RICK  *W3RSW*
ka3zlr
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« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2008, 06:06:12 PM »

Hey..That's a Sharp looking WS-19...WOW...
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WU2D
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CW is just a narrower version of AM


« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2008, 07:24:37 PM »

If you want to hear the story of that WS-19 go to http://www.qsl.net/ve3bdb/

I sent them a picture and some info and the Canadians put it up on the WS-19 site.
It was not so pretty when I got it...

Mike WU2D
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These are the good old days of AM
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