Question on Dishwasher Radio Cleaning

[Carl WA1KPD]

Ok. This is the start of several questions as I am finally starting to work on the 813 rig. After years of collecting parts I came across a fully built up and partially disassembled copy of the 5 band VFO 813 rig on eBay with a nice "buy it now price"- $90
Along with the pieces came a lot of dirt etc. I know some people have used dishwashers to clean this sort of thing up and I want to do the same.

I have removed the meters, paper dial and will be replacing the electolytics anyway. How will the various coils and chokes survive. Do they have to come out too?

I will remove the two transformers

Cold gentle wash? I put a filthy Bud chassis through the dirty pot cycle once and had myself a nice e shiny metal box when it was done.

I plan on leaving all variables sockets etc

I have several more technical questions I will post under another subject.

[N3DRB The Derb]

I would remove all the iron, chokes included. the coils depend on what they are wound on mostly. anything paper based, cardboard, etc. will  be gone and you will have floppy air wound coils. Make sure they are wound on stuff the water and detergent wont be able to penetrate. If the bakelite covering is punctured anywhere the water will get into the substrata (filling) and render it crap. examine the coils carefully. If you hav to remove take a lot of hi res "before" pictures with a digicam.

take out yer ceramic trimmers, as they will most likely crack. They'll be clean but useless. better ways to clean them. Generally, anything that tunes a circuit sharply needs to go before you throw it in the wash. The bigger air variables will be ok.

BTW, that was the most successful do it yourself DIY project ever published in ARRL history. They estimated over 100,000 were made. It was easy to build and worked very well. I have seen many at festers for bargain prices. If I see one this year for less than 50 bucks which is the typical price when found I might get one.

[WBear2GCR]

My experience with washing gear is somewhat different than Derb's.

Thus far I have yet to find any of the typical transmitter compents to be damaged by just water.

Dishwasher detergent is somewhat "etching" in my experience. I'd be cautious about using a full amount of it, or maybe any of it... it might be fine, I dunno.

One of the problems with the dishwasher methodmay be that you're really really soaking everything very fully with hot water, and if there is any saturation to happen - there shouldn't be much, if the coilforms are varnish impregnated as they usually are.

What I've usually done is to spray the chassis with a cleaner. I use Mean Green, which is a strong houshold alkaline cleaner, Fantastik is milder and often works just fine. Then, usually outside or in a bath tub I hit the surfaces if needed with a soft paint brush and then just spray it off. Drip dry, and in the winter keep by a warm heat source for a few days before applying any voltage.

(a step up in strength is "floor stipper" and then "grille cleaner")

In some severe cases, where the innards are coated with smoker's brown I've used selective application of spray over cleaner to good effect, controlling the application time carefully, spraying liberally.

Thus far I've had no trouble with any ceramic based stuff being cleaned this way.

But in general, my experience is that transmitters are easily cleaned with cleaner and water - just get the residue out and make it dry fully.

[Tom W2ILA]

Dishwashing works great on many things.  Hot water is best/normal cycle.  Drying depends upon what you are washing.  It gets hot in there so plastics melt.
Noted in a previous email.  detergents like cascade are etching or caustic.  They may destroy a finish.
In the right concentration they may do just right to remove tarnish from copper and silver.  Too much and your finish will be ruined.
I have had excellent results washing ceramic coil forms wound with silver plated wire and using a very light load of detergent (teaspoon)
Same with the chassis.  It looks like most of the cad on your project is already tarnished and you may not see that again even with buffing.
Tom
   

[W1UJR]

Hi Carl, neat find!

I like dishwasher cleaning, works great for most items.
I'd be careful on magnetics, chokes and xfomers, too hard to dry out, and too easy for water to enter.

I also don't run the complete cycle, just wash with detergent and then dry outside the dishwater.
The last few items I've run, have made a trip through the dishwasher, on the upper rack, and then baked for 2 hours in the oven at 150 degrees.

Things I'm careful of:
1) Knobs, sometimes the plastic can be discolored.
2) Use the upper rack, tends to be less harsh.
3) Remove all magnetics and IF cans, or at least seal IF cans well with duct tape.
4) Think about your choice of detergent, make certain it will not discolor the panel.
5) Dry, dry dry, oven works well, compressed air tends to just blow water deeper into things.
6) Clean, DeOx and lubricate any switches after a trips via the dishwasher, tends to wash away lubricant.

Dishwashers work especially well on air variables, ceramics and other items where one can not get readily get into surfaces to clean.
I'm also a fan of the old garden hose, a stream of water and some detergent really scrub those chassis and cabinets clean.

Here are some res before -> http://www.w1ujr.net/30K-1/DSC04667.JPG and after -> http://www.w1ujr.net/30K-1/DSC04677.JPG shots of the 30K output network after a trip through the dishwasher.

And the most recent project, a Utah Jr transmtiter.

Before


After

[W1RKW]

Carl,
Although this doesn't apply to dishwasher cleaning or boatanchor rigs, it might be food for thought.  A number of years ago I went fishing in LI Sound and when climbing into the boat I knocked my HT off my belt and into the salt water it went.  I figured it was pretty much dead but I wasn't about to wreck a fishing trip either so I went up to the public restroom and filled a bucket of water with tap water and submersed the HT in clean tap water. I had nothing to lose and everything to gain.  Flushed it out a couple of times in the bucket. Final bucket I left it submersed with the battery and HT separated then went fishing for  a few hours. On the way home picked up a few quarts of isopropyl alcohol.  When I got home and submersed the HT in pure alcohol for an hour to dissolve any water.  Disassembled the HT, hit it with low pressure compressed air, let it dry in the hot summer sun and lube things like contacts with contact cleaner.  To this day the HT works OK-fine.  Point: Alcohol can be your best friend for drying things out and electronics and those hard to reach areas. Some caution however, you're dealing with something with older materials and may not deal with water quite as well.

[Carl WA1KPD]

Thanks all. Really have not decided what to do here.

In addition, there are several old vernier drives like the one below and I am thinking of soaking them in some type of solvent and then oiling them up.
Any thoughts on the solvent or oil?

[W1UJR]

If it was me, I'd take them apart and clean each piece by hand.
Add some nice synthetic oil as a lube on reassembly, and you'd be done.

Just save all of those, and head up to Maine with something dark and German (beer I mean), and we'll do it in an afternoon! 

I might even had some spare "Marconi Antenna Wax" or some S-meter oil you can bring back.
You know that antenna waxing is quite important.

-Bruce

[N3DRB The Derb]

don't oil vernier drives, grease them. Use a good quality white lithium grease. I used to use WD40 to clean them up with Q-tips.  To this day a good looking polished National Velvet vernier gives me wood.  

[Carl WA1KPD]

To this day a good looking polished National Velvet vernier gives me wood. 

Well that might fall under the category of too much information......


[/quote]

I might even had some spare "Marconi Antenna Wax"

Well Bruce
Actually I am trying to find some of that striped tower paint. Any ideas?

[flintstone mop]

Mr Howard taught me good trick. 409 and ammonia. Get a container and fill it half with 409 and half with ammonia. Use an old paint brush to get around the large areas and the hard to get to areas and keep working the solution around. You will see the components brighten up. Then rinse with water and put in a 200 F oven for about 4 hours. If it were Summer, lay the unit outside in the Sun for the entire day. As others have mentioned, do not spray water directly into cans or meters or transformers. If there are any selector switches or band switches, work them over with DeOxit.

Fred

[N3DRB The Derb]

I'm getting ready to put a old bird termaline dummy load in the dishwasher. I bid on it before I noticed what condition it was in. It looks like it bounced around in a empty cement mixer for 20 years but it works perfectly. Hoping I can get a bird 43 and a 500 watt or better termaline at some point so I can test the amps without putting a signal out.

I missed a 500 watter, went for 56 bucks, in good shape. 

[KD6VXI]

I'm getting ready to put a old bird termaline dummy load in the dishwasher. I bid on it before I noticed what condition it was in. It looks like it bounced around in a empty cement mixer for 20 years but it works perfectly. Hoping I can get a bird 43 and a 500 watt or better termaline at some point so I can test the amps without putting a signal out.

I missed a 500 watter, went for 56 bucks, in good shape. 

If you aren't stuck on the BIRD name, then you might want to look at the B & W dummy load / wattmeters on epay now and then.

I picked one up in MINT condition, oil filled, with a wattmeter with 10, 100 and 1000 watt ranges on it.  After calibration with a 10, 100 and 1kw slug, it tracks within 10 percent of the Bird, good enough for dummy load readings, in my opinion.

Best thing about it, I paid about 70 dollars, shipped to the house for it.  Looks good, plugs in the wall (has a thermal warning on it, and the sensor and light need power for some odd reason..).

Not a termaline, but just as good, and you can also use your Thruline for more productive things, like measuring Pout to the antenna!


--Shane

[N3DRB The Derb]

I 've seen them and they are perfectly good loads. Not stuck on any name! I'm lookin for bargins. I have to. I need a hi power load for testing out the Gonset(s) at full strap.

500W termaline for 56 bucks is not bad in that dept. IMO.  Was out in shack working on amp and forgot to come back in.