recommended weather barrier for new ground system and some ?'s

[N3DRB The Derb]

ok, I got 3 10' copper clad ground rods in a 3 ft apart triangle, circle connected with dremeled acorn nuts X2 with #6 bare stranded, which will go into the shack to a central 1/2 schedule M copper pipe with clamps and a odd wide copper strap about 18" long with numerous drilled holes for both 1/4" and number 10 screws and bolts.

I will connect it with 15' feet of #6 stranded back to the ground rod for the main service box. Everything now is dremeled with a stone and bright and shiny as can be. Looks like gold.

Question: how to keep it this way? What's the best way of coating this installation so everything stays nice and shiny? Clear Krylon?
Lacquer? coax seal? Something not ugly?

This is the best ground I've had in 25 years of hamming, overkill, yes, but I want to keep it in good shape and lookin good. May serve as a radial base on 160 at some point.

Also good idea to check for any potential between the service ground and the new earth ground ring before connecting? I have read horror stories of AC volts in the dozens caused by differing resistance.
giving volts of difference between the 2 systems.                                         

[KL7OF]

Derb.......If you put any pucky or coax seal on that setup, you will just create a big pucking mess...That corrosion can hide under.....you could seal it with some clear spray stuff but that never lasts very long .......Ground system connections just have to be cleaned every once in a while .. I have my ground rods driven in at the drip line of my building eaves here in DRY eastern WA.  and I have to clean the connections every few years... In AK (I live on the shore of the Bering Sea)  I have to clean the blue/green stuff off the top of the ground rods every spring....I do use an anti corrosion spray to do the cleaning as well as a copper bristle brush......So far.....so good... Good luck    sounds like you have a gooood ground system .......

[KB2WIG]

D,
 Do you know any "lectritions who can "Cadweld' the conectors.??. its an exothermic method  that if done properly 'welds' the copper.

http://www.eham.net/forums/StationBuilding/1749

the above gots the dope............  klc

[N3DRB The Derb]

Thanks wig, thats a good link. I'll ask around. Wifey got a torch - maybe silver solder everything? That would be a good sub and betta than just mechanical connections. The acorn nutz at Home depot ARE HIDEOUS. They look like they were sand cast in a copper sludge
factory. they have brown crap all over them. You cant get a continuity beep between 2 of them unless you dig real hard past the oxide or whatever it is. Made in India. 
I dremel em with a stone on the inside until they look like gold.

I've become fascinated by the concept of a "good ground" and how a good ground at DC and low hertz AC has nothing to do with what makes a good RF ground.  The lengths some telecommunications facilities will go is amazing. Huge busbar plates and 3 " copper busbar with #0 wire. 50 ft long ground rods. It's really cool.

[W3SLK]

KC said:

Do you know any "lectritions who can "Cadweld' the conectors.??. its an exothermic method  that if done properly 'welds' the copper.

You should be able to find that at any electrical supply house. Generally it fuses the wires/rods together. It is pretty simple, you put the wires in the form and light off the fuse and the everything gets real hot real fast.

[N3DRB The Derb]

Verify correct power outlet voltage with a voltmeter at various locations throughout your facility or building. The 120 volts outlets should be 120 volts ± 5%. Also check the neutral to ground voltage. Anything over 2.0 VRMS indicates excessive voltage drop, high harmonics, or poor grounding.

good idea to check for this. I'm going to measure several outlets in the house. we have several bad outlets in some of the rooms. I'm going to replace em all after hitting the breakers off. Wanna make sure there are are no polarity problems.

Also decided I'm going to put a "modern" fuse holder on the amp instead of keeping the old bakelite fused plug. The "reciever" so 239
on the back is perfect for a chassis fuse holder. even keyed flat on one side.

[N3DRB The Derb]

I found my service entrance "ground" rod and 'connection' were totally corroded. no continuity beep on the VOM between the copper wire and the rod even after cleaning with dremel stone. Galvanized rod = worthless. I cleaned some more and finally got a beep. I should have measured he Rx but I was too cold and it was pill poppage time. I blew one of my copper clamps on the worthless POS just to be safe before I hooked up the 3 other rods via #6 stranded.

I found I had guessed the distance back to the entrance hole into the shack about 1 ft shy, but good enough to reach one of the rods.
I was out of energy for the day, so tomorrow back to home depot we go to get the last of what we need to put the #6 in the wall. From there we go to 1/2 " schedule M pipe, with copper 1/2" milford clamps to make the ground to the workbenches and the rigs. As a bonus, I bet I wont get into the CATV. I've taken the liberty of hooking up the entrance coax to the new rods.

I have no idea why I am expending all this energy on this. I just find the subject cool and this is the last station I'll probably install, if for no other reason than we could never afford to move anywhere else. Try finding a mortgage today for less than 700 a month. 

Everything about this station is going to be as good as I can possibly make it, starting from the ground up. And the gear is going to be bulletproof.  I dont want any trouble after i start operating in ernest. I just want the gear to SIT THERE AND WORK.

[KB2WIG]

D,   

   "  Galvanized rod = worthless  "

Funny how that galvanized part sounds like galvanic action .... .. Placing copper in contact with zinc 'kills' the protection of the zinc; it just goooess awayyy.   

In a pinch, you could sandwich stainless steel between the galvaznized metal and the copper but you will probably still have problems (yes, the joint will have high resistance, but it'll be better than having the conection being eaten alive).

Why expend the energy? Pride of ownership maybee. gud luck with it all..................

klc

[N3DRB The Derb]

I just hooked it up so the ground to neutral connection inside the service box could have a chance to work over the next 24 hours until I can get back to teh home depot and get more copper. 2 more rods going in the ground tomorrow, one at the service entrance, one along the run of #6 going from the SE to the new outside system. And enough wire to get to the common point inside the shack. that will be 6 8 ft and 10 ft copperweld rods. less than 4ft of #6 into the shack from the first rod to the common tie point inside.

I also lost my hole saw to drill the PVC pipe entrances into the wall. gotta go back and get that

My main rig is now solid state. if I was still using all tube gear I wouldnt go through this. I dont want my rigs crapping out when some storm blows in and I get a hit a few thousand feet away.

Nothing can survive a direct hit, but my gear should have a chance at surviving near misses now. I'd also like to try a shortened 160 meter vertical with a big ass top hat, these grounds should make a good start at a radial wire system tie point. 

[W3TDH]

Before you try to dress up that Grounding Electrode System you may want to make some alterations.  In the immortal words of the great sage Moe, of Curly Larry & Moe, SPREAD OUT!  Or to put it in the dry language of the US National Electric Code
"250.56 Resistance of Rod, Pipe, and Plate Electrodes.
A single electrode consisting of a rod, pipe, or plate that does not have a resistance to ground of 25 ohms or less shall be augmented by one additional electrode of any of the types specified by 250.52(A)(2) through (A)(7). Where multiple rod, pipe, or plate electrodes are installed to meet the requirements of this section, they shall not be less than 1.8 m (6 ft) apart.
FPN:The paralleling efficiency of rods longer than 2.5 m (8 ft) is improved by spacing greater than 1.8 m (6 ft)." 

No one is going to make you place those electrodes further apart.  If anyone were to quote the code you just smile and say those are only "supplementary electrodes" that being the magical name that makes it OK for them to not obey the rule that requires driven rods used as suplemental electrodes to be six or more feet apart.  I only  quote the code because it is based on good engineering practice.  The earth is not a terribly good conductor but as long as there is enough of it that does not matter.  So for the rods to be effective at conveying current to the earth as a whole they must not be trying to use the same limited bit of dirt as the other rods.  If for some reason that is impractical in your case then you should go deeper rather than use multiple rods.  You can order ground rod couplers at any good electrical supply house.  You can rent an electric hammer with a ground rod cup at most tool rental locations.  You will get a lot better effect by getting down below the permanent moisture line than you will by installing the same lengths of rod separately but closer then their own length apart. 
--
Tom Horne, W3TDH

[N3DRB The Derb]

2 of the 3 rods there were driven by me in 1998. They were copper 5/8" clad 10 footers.  I only pounded down 1 totally new rod and dremeled the other 2. So I wound up with 3 rods 3 ft apart, and a 10ft run of #6 back to the service entrance ground which looked like this.

what ground? You see a ground? I dont see a ground. WTF?

I plan on on following a ft away from the foundation of the house pounding a new rod in every 6 to 8 ft or so. My water pipe input to the house is also copper all the way to he meter ( from the guy who installed it), I should tap into that bad boy with some solder.

I forgot I also have a copper clad 10 ft outside he spare bedroom window at the other and of the house, just needs dremeled. So I got the whole house covered...or will.....


 

[WA1GFZ]

bury some radials out from the house. Just slit the sod and slide the wire in. Service ground should be #4 solid. Home Depot sells it by the foot.

[Ed - N3LHB]

maybe silver solder everything? That would be a good sub and betta than just mechanical connections.

Silver or regular solder will make a gas tight connection for just about ever, Derb...

[N3DRB The Derb]

I'm begging the wife to let me use her hothead mapp gas torch....GFZed, I dont think my service entrance ground is even #12. Look at da pic. That was the service entrance, and the putty is still in place, painted over.  Code musta sucked in 1977.

Yeah, I'm gonna do the radial thing before the ground freezes.

What about the chain link fence? Are they worth a damn to mess with? I got about 200 ft in a rectangle under the antenna. Use it as a elevated radial support system?

[N3DRB The Derb]

I've come to the conclusion that grounding radio stations is exactly like the debate on global warming.

Everyone has a different opinion and different methods to "ground" your station. They only agree on broad principles.

1. your grounding system and the service neutral to ground have to be at the same reference point.

2. the less resistance the better. 15 ohms is considered the minimum safe standard.

3. there should be a central ground buss less than 1/8 wavelength long on the highest frequency being operated to the first ground rod, with 4' length suggested again and again from different sources.

4. Is the goal of the ground safety, or to provide for a rf ground, or both?

5. tinned ground braid does not last outdoors. RF likes a nice flat wide smooth highway. Braid works good on stuff inside. Unless you can get the mil surplus silver plated stuff with solid ends, dont use it.

6. more than 1 ground rod is a good thing. A rod less than 8ft long is worthless. 5/8" 10 ft copper clad are teh standard. everything in the system should be copper with no alloy, as large and fat and flat as you can make it. If you cant make it that, make it big an round.
 
7. A ground ring of 3 to 4 rods spaced about 3 to 4 ft apart and interconnected with #6 or larger make the perfect base to either run radials off of
   or go to other ground rods spaced 8 to 10 ft apart. Make sure you connect your ground back to the service entrance ground.

8. a copper pipe hanger called a milford hanger in 1/2 an 5/8" size makes the best radial tie points for outside, and central ground busses inside the shack. I'll take a picture of one - cheap at home depot, all copper, clamps around and solders to the copper pipe. This is not a sub for a acorn nut connection - but a mighty handy way to attach rigs and radials both inside and outside. using 4 or 5 of these babies to interconnect 4 rods close together followed by your heavy wires going to other rods beats the hell out of those expensive "vertical radial base" things made out of Al.

9. a connection longer than 1/8 wave on the highest band you plan to operate on is no *safety* ground at all, and 1/4 wave is much worse. Are you trying make a rf ground or a safety ground?

I'll have some pictures up coming of how I did it. *if I ever get finished*  wifey is demanding equal time. I have to waste 3 or or 4 hours of daytime going to a horse parade today.   

[WA1GFZ]

Derb,
My building inspector told me to bond everything. It all boils down to ohms law. the lower the R the lower the voltage across that R during a lightning hit.
#12 will easily handle a 2000 amp (small) induced lightning hit but there will be voltage across it based on length.

About a year ago we had a lightning test part failure due to a shielded wire having too high of a resistance. It was a multiconductor cable with shielded conductors. Turned out each shield was 1 ohm of resistance and each shield of the bundle had 45 amps of lighting current flowing on it. So we had 45 amps times one ohm. Shield coupled the voltage to the center conductor. The poor little RS485 XCVR chip was only rated for 15 volts. it go poof.

[N3DRB The Derb]

I'm running #6 bare stranded to 4 different rods at this time, n sometime next week when I get back home I'll be using a mapp gas torch and silver soldering all my connections and adding 1 more new rod. I'll do pix as usual.

all my 250+watt weller tips have crapped out, cant seem to find more. My D550 is very unhappy and cold.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Listen to the phone guys. They know ground. Read the CO grounding spec sometime.

[N3DRB The Derb]

tnx mack, roofing supply house did not even cross my mind. Of course nothing else does either. 

no doubt that what you got there is a ground, brotha. When you gonna salvage that copper tub and bury that?

The work the spark gangsters did on their ground systems is mind blowing. 

[WA1GFZ]

Home Depot and many hardware stores sel 6 inch flashing by the foot. The last time I checked a roll of it at Home Depot was $500. An option I did was to bury wire as a spider web out from the house terminated to a ring of heavy wire around the house picking up all the ground rods as you go. Many surplus joints sell rolls of wire cheap.

[N3DRB The Derb]

someday I'd like to make a legal limit tuner out of some good quality wood, using polished lacquered copper sheet inside the box, give it dovetailed joints and a flip top hinged cover. Dual feedline ammeters. SWR? Whats that?

[WU2D]

Derb,

The sticky stuff that they use to replace your windshield made by 3M comes on a long tootsie roll with a spacer to keep it from sticking to itself. This stuff is great for sealing connectors outdoors. I had a 6M beam up for 10 years and when I took it down last year, I ripped that stuff off with plyers. The gamma match female and cable mate were still shiny.

Mike WU2D

[N3DRB The Derb]

tnx mike.

I have a spray on can of rubberized undercoating. I used it on my truck when I did the ground bonding on it between various points of the motor, frame, box, and cab. I should look under there and see how that is after 3 years. If it's good, I might just spray some krylon then the undercoating on top. Stuff stays flexible forever.