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Author Topic: upgrading the microphone... advice?  (Read 7585 times)
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kf6pqt
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« on: November 16, 2007, 01:31:05 AM »

I have an OG d-104. Its sorta OK.  I have a turner-style mike that I put one of those kobitone-type xtal cartridges in. It kinda sucks.

What other stuff is there to try?

Whats out there on the lower $$ end of the NEW market thats appropriate for BA gear?

Or should I just rip the carbon button out of a rotary-dial telephone? Wink

Thanks,
Jason kf6pqt
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W6IEE, formerly KF6PQT
K6JEK
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RF in the shack


« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2007, 02:23:14 AM »

I have an OG d-104. Its sorta OK.  I have a turner-style mike that I put one of those kobitone-type xtal cartridges in. It kinda sucks.

What other stuff is there to try?

Whats out there on the lower $$ end of the NEW market thats appropriate for BA gear?

Or should I just rip the carbon button out of a rotary-dial telephone? Wink

Thanks,
Jason kf6pqt
Jason, the sky's the limit on this.   Audio chains are a hobby of their own.   However, unless whatever BA you have is pretty hi-fi, you already have probably the best microphone short of a fancy audio chain -- the D-104.   If it's an amplified D-104 you need to horse around with it a bit to get it to sound decent, either replace the amplifier altogether or just put a big resistor in series with the element so the element sees a higher impedance.   If it isn't amplified just make sure the input resistor on whatever BA is nice and big.   I bet you knew all of that.

At the risk of starting an endless the thread, here's what I run:  On the class E, class D, and 100V, a Heil PR-40 into a Symtetrix 528e.   On the very souped up Ranger, an amplified D-104 with a big resistor.  On the Flex Radio, a condenser microphone someone gave me -- an MXL 900 or something straight into the PreSonus Firebox sound card. Here are the results:  The class E sounds like a broadcast station. The Flex is damned close.  The Ranger sounds very nice but you know it isn't the class E when I'm on it. 
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flintstone mop
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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2007, 01:25:38 PM »

The Heil retro of the famous RCA mic is really nice, and the Marshall condenser $99 is also a good choice and the Symetrix 528 is about all you need for a decent hi-fi FB OM audio. The RE27 is a waste, and Orban type processors are nice looking in a broadcast environment, but not for Ham use. There's nothing more frustrating to have a lot of money wrapped up in your station and try to have a decent QSO, open the RX bandwidth to enjoy those beautiful tones of another BA station and then a SSB station or AM station starts a QSO 2KC away, like they can't hear the QSO in progress!!  The bands are so crowded these dayz..........yea sure
My 10 cents worth..............forgot the key strokes to make a cent symbol....I love 'puters

Fred
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Fred KC4MOP
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Don
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« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2007, 02:09:10 PM »

I mix a D-104 with an electrovoice dynamic mic that has very poor high frequency response, but good low frequencies, using a homebrew 2-channel mixer.  In addition, I add some pre-emphasis in one channel to give the D-104 additional presence rise.  My D-104 is the classic unamplified version, and right now I have it working into a 10 megohm load.

If your rig has a high-Z mic input, I would say the best thing to do is to gut the built-in CB "power mic" rubbish, and run the output of the xtal element directly thru the shielded cable to the input of the first stage.  Make sure the load (grid resistor if it is a tube type pre-amp) is at least 5 megohms, and 10 megs is better still.  If the mic input is low-Z, you probably could homebrew something that would be much better quality than that stock built in pre-amp.

There's nothing more frustrating to have a lot of money wrapped up in your station and try to have a decent QSO, open the RX bandwidth to enjoy those beautiful tones of another BA station and then a SSB station or AM station starts a QSO 2KC away, like they can't hear the QSO in progress!!  The bands are so crowded these dayz...

The bands are not that crowded these days.  Last night after about 10PM local time, it was all empty space between 3880 and 3900.  This is typical of weeknights here. There is no excuse for this business firing up 2 kc/s away from an AM  station's carrier frequency.

I was on 160 last night (Thursday) in the early evening, on 1985 talking to some of the regulars from central KY.  Condx were good and QRN low, but even 160 went long.  I very rarely hear a skip zone on 160, but some of the stations were weak, although still readable.
 
And then I heard some slopbucket splatter.  I tuned around, and found it coming from a SSB group that had settled in about 2 kc/s above our frequency (even though there were gobs of unoccupied frequency space +/- 15 kc/s either side of us), and naturally, "AM QRM" was one of their topics of discussion.  They didn't really bother us; it was just annoying so I just tuned back to our operating frequency and carried on.  After we finished, I listened to see exactly what was going on.  Guess what?? It was the infamous MARCONI NET!  Apparently they have decided to QSY to 160 due to the long band conditions on 75 of late.  Well, at least maybe the AM guys on 75 will be rid of them for a while.
 
Although I don't advocate the idea that anyone regardless of mode "owns" a frequency, I nevertheless find it quite a coincidence that when they moved operations from 75 to 160, that they "just happened" to land 2 kc/s away from a spot that has long been frequented by AM stations.
 
Some of these slopbucket operators remind me of white-tailed deer that have a bad habit down here of hanging out along the edge of the road and as soon as they see a car coming they jump right out in front of it and get plastered all over the highway as they destroy the car.
 
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Don, K4KYV                                       AMI#5
Licensed since 1959 and not happy to be back on AM...    Never got off AM in the first place.

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flintstone mop
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« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2007, 12:33:19 PM »

Hello,
Don,
That was my pun about the crowded bands. They are very usable. It's the unknowing or the inconsiderate ops that set up a QSO 2kc away from an ongoing QSO when there's so much room to operate. And yes, again, Don, the magic number for time is after 10pm. Operating becomes a dream come true when the highway is less travelled.

Fred
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Fred KC4MOP
W1GFH
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« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2007, 02:03:03 PM »

I have an OG d-104. Its sorta OK.  I have a turner-style mike that I put one of those kobitone-type xtal cartridges in. It kinda sucks.

What other stuff is there to try?

Whats out there on the lower $$ end of the NEW market thats appropriate for BA gear?

Or should I just rip the carbon button out of a rotary-dial telephone? Wink

Thanks,
Jason kf6pqt

Do you intend to use the mic for AM tube boatanchors only? As far as I know, there is no "modern" high impedance mic marketed for ham or general use. The standard is Lo-Z now.

So yer stuck making your own solution. As others have advised, modifying your rig's mic input impedance is one solution to the matching problem.

The other thing you need to be aware of is frequency response. The D-104 or something that mimics the D-104's response curve is very useful for AM operation because...



...the boost at 3K (or so) is a necessary pre-emphasis to allow the receiver passband to interpret your audio as something other than muffled. 

This 3K bump shouldn't be considered a "hi fi" strategy. Rather it's a correction to allow your AM to sound normal rather than tubby.
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W1GFH
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« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2007, 01:06:34 AM »

I stand (actually I prefer to sit) corrected. Heil does make such a mic. "The Heil Goldline GM5V "Vintage" is a high impedance model for use with tube "boatanchor" type radios. A selectable passive-equalization circuit rolls off last octave and a half which allows you to match the response to various transmitted 30,000 ohms output impedance."
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WA3VJB
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« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2007, 07:56:18 AM »

What other stuff is there to try?

Whats out there on the lower $$ end of the NEW market thats appropriate for BA gear?


Jason, one easy way to deal with the impedance issue is to get a combination mic pre and EQ.  The output of most of them is 10Kohm, and the input can be fed with a $20 low-Z dynamic from Shady O'Rack. Some of their karaoke microphones are re-labled Shure products, and the response is quite good.

Dress up the EQ to balance out any lumps in your transmitter's frequency response and you're set to go. Those of us listening on the other end will appreciate that you have gotten away from "space shuttle audio."
$99 example

This one is a two-channel for the inevitable "A" - "B" comparisons, or to pre-set and be able to feed two different response curves, like "contest mode" and "easy chair" mode.

Oh, and Don, to your point :
Quote
hanging out along the edge of the road
I think it also is a form of seeking protection, they hang out near the AMers and hide from the more numerous unfriendly slopbucket stations.

Our dog has this figured out -- he gets on the bed on the "away" side from Pam, because he knows I tolerate him more than she does, so he gets a place to sleep.
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KF1Z
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Are FETs supposed to glow like that?


« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2007, 08:51:01 AM »

I use a 35 cent microphone. (electret)... into a preamp, compressor/limiter... that costs about $19. to build....

That's for my class-E rig....    would it work with a toob rig? not sure, but it would only be an impedance issue...


MaineAM (dot) org    has a unit similar in design to what I use... meant specifically to replace the element and amplifier in the D104.... will work into quite a range of impedances....   

I think those are around $50.....

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