Just say no to Big Brother

[k4kyv]

Beware of any nightclub, bar or retail store that cards you for alcohol, and
runs your driving licence or ID card through a scanner.

You are setting yourself up for identity theft at worse, or at best, more
junk mail, and your personal information in some corporation's data base.
The only thing they need  to know is that you are old enough to purchase
alcohol; it's not their business your name, street address, exact date of
birth, social security number or any other data  that may be gleaned from
whatever ID card you show them.  Just hold it in your hand so that the clerk
or bouncer can see the birth date.  Do not hand it to them, and above all,
don't let them insert it into any kind of scanning device.  If they insist
that they "have to" have it,  leave immediately and take your business
elsewhere.

If this sounds like I am being paranoid, check out these websites.

The AgeBand System also captures patrons' ID data to create an editable database for reporting. Track attendance trends and demographics with the easy to use software. Flag special status patrons (VIPs, banned, etc.) within the database.

http://www.pdcorp.com/crowd-control/club_bar_age_verification.html


http://www.engadget.com/2005/09/19/the-clubscan-id-scanner-for-nightclubs/

Forward this message to everyone you know who might ever be carded for
anything.

This needs to be nipped in the bud right now.

[Bill, KD0HG]

“The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away, for expedience, and by parts.”

19th Century Irish statesman Edmund Burke

[W1RKW]

The same could be said about purchasing alcohol or whatever with a bank card. Can be used easily to track ones habits and used against them at some point in time.

Upon applying for my current job with a defense contractor, in order to obtain a security clearance, I had to disclose my financial dealings.  I didn't like it but I did it. And I still have reservations for doing it but I needed the job at the time.  I don't trust anyone with that info.

I was robbed at knife point 8 years ago. They took my wallet which had my SSN (stupid me) but to this day, nothing has ever appeared on my credit report (knock on wood)  nor any other trouble.  All the dumb ass got was $24.00 in cash. I think he tossed everything else into a nearby trash can which ended up in a dump somewhere.  Nice of the loser not to litter and save me a hassle.

[k4kyv]

The same could be said about purchasing alcohol or whatever with a bank card. Can be used easily to track ones habits and used against them at some point in time.

As far as I know, all that shows up is that you made a transaction at that place of business.  They scan the card (or rather the customer is the one who usually scans the card) and the amount is registered.  You leave just as much a paper trail when paying with a check.

The only sure way to avoid leaving a paper trail is to pay with cash, and refuse to give any personal data when making the transaction, or if you don't want a hassle, just satisfy them with fake information and go on about your business.

I can see the direction it is going with the ID card scanner business. The older generation of adults will initially moan about the inconvenience of pulling out a driving licence or passport for every simple act of purchasing beer, but will soon 'acclimate' while the younger generation will accept it as the status quo, and before long, we will have to show ID for ALL transactions, cash or credit. Next we will get our cars routinely searched, and the following generation will get their houses searched. Generation by generation we are being conditioned to accept a full time police state.

[kf6pqt]

I make a point of rubbing the magnetic strip on the back of the DL back and forth over a nice big speaker magnet.

[Bill, KD0HG]

Great idea, but you've just blown your chance of being invited to the VIP area of the Dew Drop Inn.

Don: Didn't Tennessee recently pass a law requiring everyone to get carded for beer and liquor purchases, regardless of age, without exception? If so, is this related to that?

[WA1GFZ]

Gee Don,
 the last time I was carded I was 30 in a LA Bar and I thanked the guy.
a looooooog time ago

[WA3VJB]

This is not so much a "big brother" issue, which suggests a government function, as it is a marketing strategy among businesses. There's plenty of intrusion by both, of course.

I'd love to get a composite of what they've gotten on me over the years. As an example of countermeasures, when a firm insists on a Social Security number for some kind of credit transaction including a monthly billing account, I have consistently offered them a number that is off by the same one digit. Never had any problem, and it has "satisfied them" as Don put it (nice).

Wonder whose number it really is, har.

My experience recently in buying a new car was against a well-known ruse where they photocopy your driver's license in exchange for handing it back to you, with the keys, for an unaccompanied test drive.

I said I'd rather not have my driver's license "on file somewhere" and invited the salesperson to ride along instead.  This befuddled them but they complied.

In a related counter-measure, I applied for credit in advance somewhere else -- NOT at the dealership, where you'd have to disclose all manner of personal information to their credit department, the boundaries to which are probably quite vague from the sales department.  When I had a "final" deal, I presented them with a check and left with the car.

Also, you should absolutely never sign the back of any credit cards or ATM bank cards. Take a Sharpie^® pen and write "See Driver's License" where they can match your transaction slip signature to what's on the photo-ID.  I further never remove the activation sticker that comes on most renewal credit cards. If someone were to steal my wallet, they may think the card has never been activated, and that the signature window does NOT provide an example for forgeries.

[Glenn NY4NC]

That's the way it is here in North Carolina. Even if you're obviously over 21, they check your drivers license regardless.....  but no one has scanned my DL ...... so far.

Don: Didn't Tennessee recently pass a law requiring everyone to get carded for beer and liquor purchases, regardless of age, without exception? If so, is this related to that?

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

I can easily see both sides of this, most seems to be an attempt to track your buying habits to target you for spamming. Some is truly invasive, like the little black box recorders in newer vehicles. Even the chips that control speed via fuel cutoff are a bit much, IMO.

Can't recall how many arguments I've had with Drs, businesses, and others over my SSN number, but it's never a good idea to give it out. Usually they will back down, sometimes you have no choice.

Last time I was carded was at 40, buying wine with #4. When I asked the 50-60something lady if she was serious, she replied something along the lines of "well, you're not getting this bottle until you show me an ID, junior". It made me chuckle. 

[WA1HZK]

Screw it!
Don't go in. Turn on the big rig instead! 45 degrees last Wednesday up here in the frozen tundra of NH. The season is upon us. Speak softly and carry a big strap!
Keith
WA1HZK

[k4kyv]

Don: Didn't Tennessee recently pass a law requiring everyone to get carded for beer and liquor purchases, regardless of age, without exception? If so, is this related to that?

I'm not so sure that the nightclub scanner issue is related to the TN law, but I'd say the TN law is an extension of the same global issue as the scanners.

The entire TN law can be view here

But this part pretty much tells the whole story:

...The mandatory ID provision of this law is the first of its' kind in the country and establishes Tennessee as a national leader on the underage issue...
Mandatory ID: Prior to making a sale of beer for off-premise consumption, the consumer must present a valid, government issued document, such as a driver's license, or other form of identification deemed acceptable to the permit holder, which includes the photograph and birth date of the consumer attempting to purchase...

Sunset Provision: The law is effective July 1, 2007. The mandatory carding provision will sunset or expire on July 1, 2008. Tennessee will be the first state in the country to require ID for off-premise beer purchase regardless of age, so there was no other law in the country to study or use as a model. Therefore, the sunset provision was included in case there was staunch public opposition to the mandatory carding. However, it's anticipated that the public will acclimate to the requirement quickly and the sunset provision will be removed during the 2008 legislative session thus making the mandatory carding requirement permanent law...

Now tell me it is just a coincidence that this sort thing is suddenly popping up all over the country at about the same time, in widely separated regions like Tennessee and Massachussetts.  This is not a case of one or two local politicians having a brain fart.
 
Got an ID for that beer, grandpa?

Why should I have to pull out identity papers to buy beer, when any damn fool can look at me and tell that I'm more than old enough?  One more little freedom lost; I can no longer walk into the store off the street, with cash in hand, and purchase beer if my "papers are not in order".  I haven't been refused yet, but my TN driving licence does not have my photo on it, since it is not mandatory in this state once you reach age 60.  I was able to renew it by mail, avoiding the 3-hour wait at the driver licence station, and save $4 to boot.


I don't think I am being overly paranoid to suspect that this may really be an agenda to get everyone accustomed to the idea of being carded for trivial transactions.  Next it will be a requirement to show ID for any transaction, cash or credit, and eventually be a requirement for everyone to carry a  government-issued ID card on their person at all times, just like it was when I was living in France back in the 60's and 70's.  A flic could approach anyone in public, at any time, and ask "vos papiers, s'il vous plaît (papers, please)".  If the person could not or would not present valid identity papers, they could be hauled off to jail for an "identity check".  I believe it's the same in Germany.

Of course, this sort of thing will only get worse, if everyone sheepishly complies without making any kind of issue of it, and instead, people just go on back to their TV without questioning it any further.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

If you want the government to take care of you, it will.

The only sure way to avoid leaving a paper trail is to pay with cash, and refuse to give any personal data when making the transaction, or if you don't want a hassle, just satisfy them with fake information and go on about your business.

But you'll still be on the video taken by the store's security cameras.

[KB2WIG]

How about fingerprinting to cash a check???   The Key Bank requires a finger print to cash a check... They want a 'pinkie' print on the check. I asked the casher how many people will touch this thing    DUH???  How will you know that I was the one to leave a print and not someone else??  duh?  Its not the morons thinking up these idiotic things that have to deal with the jerks like me, just the poor slob behind the counter....  Just make sure you swirl your pinkie finger for a few seconds on the check.... tell 'em its gud fer prints..... 


nail-to-nail, klc

[k4kyv]

I make a point of rubbing the magnetic strip on the back of the DL back and forth over a nice big speaker magnet.

Our state DL doesn't have the magnetic strip (yet).  It probably would have the same effect to set it on a large coil and run 60~ ac through the coil.  That's how the old magnetic tape bulk erasers worked.

And if they start putting microchips in documents you are required to have, I wonder what effect a microwave oven would have on the chip.

I received a Lowe's gift card this year for my birthday.  They come with a magnetic strip just like a credit card.  It came in a neat little all-metal box with a hinged lid, just large enough for the card to fit inside.  That might come in handy if they ever start putting RF ID chips in the DL, which could be scanned on the street or while you were driving or wherever you might be if you just carried it in your pocket or in a leather wallet.  Don't know if that is what Lowe's had in mind with that particular packaging.

[N0WVA]

Its almost like someone is calling the shots way back in the background to get us used to this control.

Rest assured that your lovely prez and congress is only a puppet on a string. They will bow to the elitists that run this world. And those people want you to bend over and take it with a smile.

Now everyone nod thier heads and say out loud in unison " yes world banks and corporations, we will do everything you tell us, please protect us".

[N0WVA]

I make a point of rubbing the magnetic strip on the back of the DL back and forth over a nice big speaker magnet.

Our state DL doesn't have the magnetic strip (yet).  It probably would have the same effect to set it on a large coil and run 60~ ac through the coil.  That's how the old magnetic tape bulk erasers worked.

And if they start putting microchips in documents you are required to have, I wonder what effect a microwave oven would have on the chip.

I received a Lowe's gift card this year for my birthday.  They come with a magnetic strip just like a credit card.  It came in a neat little all-metal box with a hinged lid, just large enough for the card to fit inside.  That might come in handy if they ever start putting RF ID chips in the DL, which could be scanned on the street or while you were driving or wherever you might be if you just carried it in your pocket or in a leather wallet.  Don't know if that is what Lowe's had in mind with that particular packaging.

You could also wrap it a couple layers of tin foil.

And you know how cell phones can be turned on and used as a "bug"?  Put your phone in a RF tight box when at home....I made one with a lid, all wrapped in foil....phone no workie!


I bet a fellow could make a killing selling RF tight boxes to people who fear they are being eavesdropped on.

[W1RKW]

But you'll still be on the video taken by the store's security cameras.

.... And not to mention all the surviellance cameras along  roadways.

Welcome to the Matrix. Did you take the blue pill or the red pill?  I don't remember,  someone erased my brain.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

All this talk of Big Brother but you guys are willing participants and have been for decades. It's called the IRS. You tell them how much money you make, your home address, the name of your employer(s), the money made on the sale of your house or other real estate, how much your won in the lottery, how much you received in gifts or inheritance, how much you give to charity and host of other personal info, depending on the complexity of your tax return. And to top it all off, they track you with a special number you willingly take on.

Sorry boys, the the invasion of your privacy by the government happened a long time ago.

[k4kyv]

Sorry boys, the the invasion of your privacy by the government happened a long time ago.

But at least they had no way (until recently) of tracking your every move in real time.  And most of the personal information they receive, other than what is supplied by paper trails you leave behind, depends on your "voluntarily" giving it to them.  They have no other way of finding it out.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Completely wrong Don. They can easily access your bank accounts, stock accounts, employer records, look up real estate transactions and track your every use of a credit card. And if you take more than $10,000 (IIRC) out of the bank, the bank must inform the Feds. If they think you did something wrong, they can impound your property and account - before you ever have your day in court. Wages are attached regularly.

Unless you do everything in your life with cash (income and pay out) or barter, they own you.

Privacy? Not likely.

Sorry boys, the the invasion of your privacy by the government happened a long time ago.

But at least they had no way (until recently) of tracking your every move in real time.  And most of the personal information they receive, other than what is supplied by paper trails you leave behind, depends on your "voluntarily" giving it to them.  They have no other way of finding it out.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

 

[k4kyv]

And if you take more than $10,000 (IIRC) out of the bank, the bank must inform the Feds.

The rule as $10k per transaction or per day in the same bank account. The trick is to transact $9,999 one day and do the rest the next day.

I actually did that once when I found out there was paperwork to fill in because I wanted to deposit $17k in cash that I had accumulated from a couple of accounts at another bank.  I split it into two equal sums and each one went through like any normal deposit.

Banks leave paper trails.  If you don't want one, keep your money under a mattress.  To avoid loss due to the constant devaluation of the dollar(ette), convert to gold or silver, or to another commodity that will keep its value.

[k4kyv]

For an authentic peek at a totalitarian police state, view this film.  I just rented the DVD and watched it this evening, and would recommend it to everyone. A must-see thriller involving corruption within the East German secret police structure, an in-depth portrait of the last years of communism in East Berlin. 

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the_lives_of_others/

http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/cinema/2007/02/12/070212crci_cinema_lane?currentPage=1

[W1RKW]

Banks leave paper trails.  If you don't want one, keep your money under a mattress.  To avoid loss due to the constant devaluation of the dollar(ette), convert to gold or silver, or to another commodity that will keep its value.

Like a Fowler R-390A