Electricity Costs Revisited

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

No idea which thread it was, but I had mentioned replacing my old 70s-era 'fridge a couple months back and Frank 'GFZ remarked that I'd be surprised at my power bill.

I am! Didn't want to mention it without a couple of months data to back it up, but what a HUGE difference! My monthly bill was $54-$62 on average. The last two months were $34 and change, and this includes home cooling fans running and a large compressor for the house paint sprayer.

Still amazed that changing out one appliance could make such a remarkable difference. Now I can run the transmitter 24/7.

[W9GT]

Ha!!  My wife just called -- the new electrik bill came in the mail!  $265!!!!

WEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.....................

Must be that 50 KW broadcast rig in the basement.

73,  Jack, W9GT

[WA1GFZ]

Todd,
When our bill went down a light co guy knocked on the door and asked what happened. We just got rid of the water bed last year. We did about $85 last month but the AC was running a lot. Beach place was about $50 with electric hot water heater.

[KF1Z]

Since that last thread, we were given an electric clothes dryer... not ancient, but not new....

We've been using it for a couple months now.... when the WX dictates no outside drying...

Maybe 4 loads a week, on lowest heated setting...

E bill went from under $50/mo. to over $80.

I suppose the convenience is worth it.....

It's amazing how quick a pile of clothes gets big with an 8 month old, a 5 year old, and a couple of adults when we get a 3 or more day stretch of wet WX.

[KL7OF]

Naknek Alaska....July 2007 .....1206 KWH @ $.335 = $404.  Our electric plant is powered by diesel...Never use AC ..Hi temp for July 69 deg F.   I'm getting ready to go to Tum Tum for the winter but I think I will stay here for a while longer....too hot there right now.....

[WA1GFZ]

our dryer is 17 years old and needs to be replaced. sounds like an old concrete mixer. We plan to get a new one when the kids go back to school. we have a good long clothes line and sometimes the xyl can fill it twice in a day. It will hole 2 loads of wash. I'm thinking of a way to extract all the heat going outside to heat the basement.

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Well Frank, I'm still very impressed that updating one appliance can make such a big difference.

If my bill seems low, it's because I currently live alone, don't watch much TV, or spend time at home on the computer. My dryer is also electric, but only gets used once per week for a load or two. The furnace is probably the next biggest offender, since it heats the hot water in addition to heating the house in winter. Oil-fed, but heating oil was around 74.9˘/gal. when I bought the place in '94.

Steve, a friend of mine out in Hood River told me it was cold there this morning. 'Cold' compared to the high temps they've recently had, perhaps? Won't be long now until the autumn cool down begins.

[The Slab Bacon]

The month of july wus kinda comfortable around here, but the beginning of August has been hotter than the gates of hell itself. Yesterdays recorded high for the Baltimore area was 102 deg actual temp at BWI airport. Partz of the city were reporting actual temp of 106!! Yowsa, Yowsa, Yowsa!!

My 2 ton window shaker has been gettion a workout lately, and has not been shut off since sometime last week. With our new 50% increase on our lectrick bills, I'm dreading this one coming up!

All I can say is "Bend over Buckwheat, this one's gonna hurt!!"

                                                  The Slab Bacon

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Yeah Slab, that's one of the fears I have about moving to Florida. The house we found has a big cube in the backyard with a fan on the inside top, says 'Amana' on the side. Looks like it could suck the life outta every piece of radio gear I own. 

Trade off, I s'pose. Electricity vs. Heating oil.

The concrete and asphalt jungles seem to create their own climate to some extent. 'Heat Island' effect of something like that.

[WA1GFZ]

Todd, you will make up for the pain when winter comes.

[W1QWT]

Ah Yes Electricity cost!
In my all electric house this is a very sensitive issue.
However I recently saw that my last electric bill was $148.47 and for the same
period last year it was $231.52.
What do I attribute this to. Both my kids have moved out!
Last week I installed a new super duper micro processor controlled hot water heater that is
95% efficient and has a "smart energy saver" mode and 3 inches of insulation.
Next month when I get my electric bill I'll let you know if it saved me any money.
My last January bill was $651. Be curious to see what it goes down to this coming January
with all the unused rooms shut down that the kids used.
Regards
Q, W1QWT

[Jim, W5JO]

Still amazed that changing out one appliance could make such a remarkable difference. Now I can run the transmitter 24/7.

Todd, change the refrigerator now.  If you open the door a lot for a beer, the cost of electricity is huge.  As a matter of fact, any old appliances should be upgraded. 

We have a 15.2 SEER heat pump here in S. Oklahoma and, even my wife who is not mechanically inclined, noticed the size of the compressor.  2100 sq. ft. with skylights in three rooms, all electric with my AM stuff that runs as much as I have time only cost about 150.00 last month.

Electricity is much cleaner than oil anyway.

[k4kyv]

Years ago I calculated that running a kw DC input on AM, and  doing a typical amount of operating every day, would cost only a few dollars a month.
 
Let's say your transmitter draws on average 3 kw from the mains while you transmit.  Let's also say you are above average in amateur activity, and operate about 3 hours per day.  In that case, you probably actually key-down transmit no more than one hour per day.  That makes 3 kWh per day, or about 90 kWh per month.

If your electric rate is 10˘ per kWh, that would make your electric bill for operating your transmitter $9.00 per month.  Our residential power rates here are 7.413˘ per kWh for the first 1000 kWh, and then it drops to 6.838˘ per kWh after that.  So my power bill for transmitting would be less than $6.70 per month.

Now adjust those figures for the amount of over-the-air activity you do, and the power rate from your local utility.  It's pretty easy to estimate what your transmitter contributes to your monthly electric bill.  At most, probably about the same as one cinema ticket.

Now compare the amount of entertainment or enjoyment you get from a month of AM hamming vs what you would get from sitting through one movie.

Pretty cheap entertainment, eh?

[WA1GFZ]

Q does the water heater turn off at night when you are sleeping. I was thinking of adding an industrial timer to my new one. We do about 725 gallons of oil a year so that is close to $2K so electric doesn't look so bad.it is all about insulation these days. fc

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Todd, change the refrigerator now.  If you open the door a lot for a beer, the cost of electricity is huge.  As a matter of fact, any old appliances should be upgraded. 

That was actually the point of the post, Jim: the old fridge crapped out a couple months back and was replaced with a newer (year or two old) model. Hence the much lower electricity bills. I was reluctant to credit the new appliance until seeing at least two bills.

It sure is cheap and chintzy compared to the old one, but I was in a pinch and needed something fast.

Depends how the electricity is generated I suppose. A lot of generating plants still use oil or coal. Either way Frank is right: I'll make up for the saving when winter arrives, if the house hasn't sold by then.

[W1QWT]

Q does the water heater turn off at night when you are sleeping.

If I remember correctly it keeps track of your hot water usage (somehow) and when it thinks
it is in a period when it won't be used it backs the temp down about 10 degrees colder than
you set it for.

Here is the add for it:

Save up to 30% in standby heat loss when operating in the Energy Smart® Mode
Patented Anti Dry Fire System helps prevent element failure due to lack of water in the tank on startup
Four User Selectable Operating Modes
SMART - Functions similar to conventional electric water heater
ENERGY SMART® – Automatically adjusts water temperature according to your family’s water usage pattern – helps ensure sufficient hot water at minimum cost
LOW TEMPERATURE – Automatically limits the maximum water temperature to 115°F
VACATION/CABIN – Prevents freezing when left unattended while on vacation or away for extended periods of time
.95 Energy Factor Saves $276 in Operating Cost2
Electronic Control with Four User-Selectable Operating Modes
Saves Up to 30% in Standby Heat Loss3
Dual Stainless Steel Heating Elements
Self-Diagnostic Control Monitors 8 Critical Functions and Signals The Status of Each
Triple Foam Insulated

Operating Mode Descriptions
1. Smart Mode - The controller operates the water heater to maintain the customer’s selected temperature.
2. Energy Smart Mode - The controller adjusts the water temperature to lowest temperature required to meet the
household demands. This mode minimizes operating costs. The controller will not adjust temperature higher than
customer’s selected set point or lower than 115°F.
3. Low Temperature Mode - The controller limits the water temperature to 120°F or at the temperature selected
whichever is lower. See page 9 for more information on scalds.
4. Vacation/Cabin Mode - The controller adjusts the water temperature to approximately 50°F. This mode is
recommended when the water heater is not in use for a long period of time. This effectively turns the water heater
off and prevents the water from freezing.
Diagnostic Indicator Light Analysis
! Light On - Indicates power applied and operating correctly.
! Light Off - Indicates no power or a controller problem.
! One Flash - Indicates the power was applied to water heater before the tank filled with water.
! Two Flashes - Indicates the high limit temperature has been reached.
! Three Flashes - Indicates a problem with the temperature sensors.
! Four Flashes - Check upper element.
! Five Flashes - Check lower element.
Reset Function

It is a Whirlpool electric water heater with a 12 year guarantee.

Regards Q

[WA1GFZ]

I bought a standard 12 year GE so it will stay there for a while.
Sounds like I should add some more insulation around it. I have it set for just under 120 degrees and a short run to the tub. I was thinking of adding one of those timers to turn it off during the night. Yours looks pretty smart. I bet it costs some bucks. I think i paid around $300 a couple years ago. My neighbor across the street just replaced his again 50 gallon. I think he paid around $330 for a standard one but the same brand as yours.   

[W1QWT]

$329 at Lowes. 50 gallons.
My brother in law, a plumber, helped me put it in. I had to add a 240 volt disconnect cause I didn't have one there at the heater.
I saved a boat load doing it myself. I had two quotes from local plumbers who wanted $1200 and the heater they were going to provide only had a 9 year guarantee.
Getting the old one out was tough cause it was a stone lined tank and weighed a lot.

Q

[WA1GFZ]

WOW great deal. I put trex under my heater to get it off the concrete floor heat sink.

[k4kyv]

The best way to go is with a demand type water heater.  No energy wasted storing 50 gallons or more of water and keeping it hot when no-one is using it. 

I was going to replace my electric one with a demand type gas unit, but the cost of running the extra propane line and installing the vent pipe would have cost more than I would have save over the lifetime of the heater, plus the units themselves are overpriced.

They use them almost exclusively in Europe and as I recall, they are ventless.  Just a little rectangular box on the wall next to each appliance that uses hot water.

[KF1Z]

I have an Aquastar (by Bosch) on demand profane water heater....

I paid $399 at Homedepot...

Installed it myself, the gas guy ran the line to it... $50.

I put the required 5" exhaust pipe through the roof. that cost about $30.

If it was the only gas appliance I owned, I'd have a tank just for that....I love it.

I think between the gas stove, and the water heater, I pay around $65. per month for the profane....
That's at $4.15 per gallon of profane (I don't use enough of the stuff to get a good price, if I used twice as much per year, I'd save $1 a gallon)

[W1VD]

Frank

Put a timer on my electric HWH about 6 months back. Turns on twice a day 5:30 - 9:30 AM and 6:00 - 8:00 PM. Saved ~ $15+/month.

Bought a P3 'Kill A Watt' plug in power usage monitor. Reads up to 1500 watts @ 120 VAC. Impressive unit at < $20 delivered (careful shopping). Digital readout of voltage, current, watts, VA, Hz, power factor and kwH. They claim 0.2% accuracy. Appears to be rf proof - used it to monitor the Class D transmitter the other night.

Checked everything in the house and got some surprises - especially with stuff turned off! Got no beef with what something draws when it's being used but 'off' is no longer 'off'. A few of the items:

15 year old Sony TV (off, but with fast warmup) -  85 watts!!!  (on) - 95 watts

Dell Monitor (sleep) - 15 watts

Bose radio (off) - 6 watts

HP printer (sleep) - 12 watts

Cordless phone (charging) - 5 watts

Stereo system components (sleep) - 16 watts

Cable modem/router/4 port switch (always on) - 18 watts

Mr. Coffee (on) - 1000 watts

HP 3586C SLM (unit off, crystal oven on) (had 2 plugged in) - 20 watts each

Symetrix 528/CRL PMC300A (on) - 25 watts (used to leave these on)

etc, etc.

Transformer type wall warts with nothing attached - small but measurable. Switching type wall warts with nothing connected - unmeasurable. Add it all up it's a couple hundred watts continuous draw! Back in the days of cheap electricity it didn't matter...

Monthly electric bills here now running  $225/month so we're putting power strips on the entertainment system, computer and ham radio setups so that off really is off. Some systems will get two power strips - an 'essential' bus and a 'non essential' bus. Power strips are dirt cheap.

Money saved will be plowed into IXDD414 drivers and 11N90 FETs for the next AM rig...running > 90% efficient...





   

[W1RKW]

The Kill A Watt meter: http://www.p3international.com/products/special/P4400/P4400-CE.html

I purchased one of those last year and got similar measurements.  I was amazed at what some things were drawing especially when they were "off".

I ended up putting timers on appliances and consumer electronics for when they're not being used. So a good drop in the e-bill.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

That's why I've always chuckled when the Class E boyz get a big woodie and brag about the efficiency their transmitters and how much they save on electricity. Dream on.

Years ago I calculated that running a kw DC input on AM, and  doing a typical amount of operating every day, would cost only a few dollars a month.

[flintstone mop]

Sorry for bringing this thread back to the top, BUT my wife and I are looking for an effecient refrig. Any special makes or models? We have a Sears '91 20 cu ft with ice maker and it runs and runs and runs. Some of the guys mentioned a tremndous savings in lectricity. Our central air conditioning condensor unit is next with a high SEER rating......Down the road, though.
Also we are looking at the Front Loading washers. I remember the Westinghouse my parents had in the early 50's. I know they save water, and do not tear up, wear out clothing like the top loaders. They are coming down in price around $678 for a G.E. 3.6 cu ft. (Are they trying to force metrics on us?) Any special makes and models for front loaders???
Thank you
Fred