tricity

[WA1GFZ]

Gee last night XLY was proud to tell me we got down to $62 this bill as the freshly installed AC blasted out cold air.

[Bill, KD0HG]

Au contrare mon frere!! that is only true of resistive loads like light bulbs. Inductive loads (like AC motors on air conditioners) will draw more current when the voltage is lowered. Around here they drop the voltage to the lower part of the standard.

The Slab Bacon

What you say is true about motors drawing more current if the voltage is reduced
(if the load is constant).

But they also can draw more current and waste energy if run *above* nominal design voltage!

An assumption people often make is that since low voltage increases the amperage draw from motors, then high voltage must reduce the amperage draw and heating of the motor.

This is not the case.

High voltage on a motor tends to push the magnetic portion of the motor into saturation. This causes the motor to draw excessive current in an effort to magnetize the iron beyond the point of saturation. You just create a lot of hot wire.

Motors will tolerate a certain increase in voltage above the design voltage, but operating substantially above the design voltage will cause the current to go up with a corresponding increase in heating and a shortening of motor life. When an AC motor has 120 volts on the nameplate, it needs to run as close to 120 volts as possible.

Other factors of interest:

Inrush current goes up with higher voltage.
Overvoltage is most harmful to lightly loaded motors.

[KF1Z]

What is an "Energy Efficiency Charge"?

You know Steve, I'm not real sure....

What I THINK it is, is the extra charge that they place on your bill...
So if you install energy star rated appliances, they reduce that number....making you think you got something special out of the deal....



Sorta like raising your prices by 15%, a week before you have a big 10% off  sale....
 

[KF1Z]

What is an "Energy Efficiency Charge"?

got curious and went to the website....


"Vermont also collects an Energy Efficiency Charge, which funds energy efficiency services provided by Efficiency Vermont, the independent statewide energy efficiency utility."


Now THAT makes sense ...........

[WA1GFZ]

sounds like the energy efficiency welfare dept. to me.

[WA3VJB]

The UPS I run has a logging feature that triggers an alert saying this:

Frequent Overvoltage
A Smart-UPS, Back-UPS Pro, or PowerStack has used its AVR Trim feature to decrease high input voltage more than five times during the last 24 hours, or more than fifteen times during the last seven days. This may indicate that the quality of the input voltage provided to the UPS needs to be improved.

This status clears when the AVR Trim usage drops below these thresholds (No Longer Frequent Overvoltage event).

Recommended Action:
Make sure that the Upper Bypass Limit is set to its highest setting, and that the Sensitivity setting is set to Low (Power Parameters (smart-signaling UPS only) in the Device Properties Dialog Box). These settings, which are the default settings for these parameters, cause the UPS to use its AVR Trim feature less frequently, and for shorter periods of time.

[The Slab Bacon]

What you say is true about motors drawing more current if the voltage is reduced
(if the load is constant).

But they also can draw more current and waste energy if run *above* nominal design voltage!

An assumption people often make is that since low voltage increases the amperage draw from motors, then high voltage must reduce the amperage draw and heating of the motor.

This is not the case.

High voltage on a motor tends to push the magnetic portion of the motor into saturation. This causes the motor to draw excessive current in an effort to magnetize the iron beyond the point of saturation. You just create a lot of hot wire.

Motors will tolerate a certain increase in voltage above the design voltage, but operating substantially above the design voltage will cause the current to go up with a corresponding increase in heating and a shortening of motor life. When an AC motor has 120 volts on the nameplate, it needs to run as close to 120 volts as possible.

Other factors of interest:

Inrush current goes up with higher voltage.
Overvoltage is most harmful to lightly loaded motors.

Bill,
     This may be true, but in our part of the world, low voltage is much more of a problem.

A few years back, i was having a problem with the big 2 ton window shaker in my dining room popping the 20A breaker on its dedicated line.
A few tests showed up the problem. It is rated to draw 12A @ 230v.
Voltmeter showed 197v and amprobe showed 19+A. As the line voltage came up later in the wee hours, the amprobe came down to the rated current draw. Also the increased current draw was also causing the windings of  the motor to heat up. It finally took its toll on the compressa. I had to replace it the following year. It crapped out during a 100+ heatwave!! Go figger.

                                                  the Slab Bacon

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

What is an "Energy Efficiency Charge"?

Another name for 'hidden tax' to fund some special interest group, more spending, whatever. Vermont is at the top of the heap for tax burden, has been for a number of years. Word has it they're perfecting a way to squeeze blood from rocks. You should see our phone bills... 

I neglected to check the line voltage last night, got busy with other things. I'm going to plug in the meter over the weekend and take random readings, it'll be interesting to track where it goes and what it averages. It does seem to be running higher lately. Perhaps it's the new norm for my area.

[flintstone mop]

YUP a year 'round high lectric bill now. Summertime bills 12 mos a year. Winter WAS so nice with a $50.00 lectric bill. Now retirement really suks.
Fred

[The Slab Bacon]

How do youse guys manage $50-65 electric bills??  Mine used to run around $120-140 before the first increase last year. After the first increase they were $160-180 last year till now. I'm afraid to see what they will be this summa afta the additional 50% increase that started as of this month!!!!

If mine were that cheap I wouldnt give a shzt!!

                                                       The Slab Bacon

[KF1Z]

My bill has never been higher than $51.

BUT, I do NOT have:
Elec water heater,
Elec Stove,
"boatanchors"
Incandescent lamps
Elec Heat
Air conditioning
Furnace

etc....

The cookstove and 'on-demand' water heater are profane....
those cost about $30/month right there....

Woodstove for heat,
Solid State Radios
Compact Flourescents




I'll tell you, I was SHOCKED to get a $51 bill....

But when you add the propane to it.... $100 in electric wouldn't be "unreasonable"

[The Slab Bacon]

Man, I wouldnt know how to act if my bills were that cheap!!
With the "new rates" I'm expecting to easily see $250-270 on the next bill. That just plain sux, especially for just 2 people living in this house.
                                                    The Slab Bacon

[W1RKW]

In the news today, our electric company here in CT is proposing a rate increase again in less than a year.

I got one of these for measure power consumption.  It also measure line voltage and a few other things as well. It was worth $30 or $40 I spent on it.
http://www.p3international.com/products/special/P4400/P4400-CE.html

[Carl WA1KPD]

Deregulation has turned out to be a disaster in most areas that it's been tried.
Mostly because politicians were involved in writing the laws. ;-)

Exactly what killed Calif. In their wisdom the politicians deregulated the wholesale price paid by the utilities and capped the price charged by the utilities.

Enron made a ton of money, there were widespread brownouts and blackouts and the utilities wound up bankrupt

[WA1GFZ]

Well I hear they only need 4 % this time. So bend over and slather that lube here it comes.
the crooks in Hartford will do their usual nothing as businesses leave like rats off a sinking ship. Oh well the roads will be clearer for the last few rich able to live in the state with the highest gas tax. 
Lego is out of my town headed to Mexico. another empty building...maybe the jail next door can use it.