VHS to DVD? - Old Radio Documentary and Interview

[W1UJR]

I have a number of interesting old VHS tapes, including one in which Bruce Kelly W2ICE of Antique Wireless Association fame, interviews Major Armstrong's widow. The other videos are old ARRL videos about the early days of the League, I think something about the early League station W1MK, and finally a long buzzardly antenna dissertation. To preserve these, and also be able to view via the computer and home DVD player, I'd like to dub over to DVD format.

My question, I read that you can use a analog to digital convertor to go from VHS (RCA video and audio) to a computer "firewire" port.
To that end I picked up a unit that is supposed to do the trick, but have some questions.

Has anyone done dubbing like that recently?
How long does it take to process, I asume as long as the tape original played?
Software suggestions, I use a Mac, but have access to a PC as well.
Other hints, thoughts or suggestions?


Tnx,
Bruce W1UJR
www.w1ujr.net

[N3DRB The Derb]

I own a elgato eyeTV500 HD, which I use to record off the air and save on the mac in full HD.

The time it takes is dependent on how much horsepower your mac has. I have a dual G5, so I'm able to approach real time transcoding/ encoding. If yours is older, it will take more. I'd use the mac as long as it's a modern one that runs OS X. Use the newest machine you have. video encoding is a high duty service.

READ DIS:

http://www.macworld.com/2004/05/features/fromvhstodvd/index.php

[flintstone mop]

A DVD recorder is the best way to go. Prices have come waaay down. Get a recorder that uses the DVD -R format NOT +R.  I learned the hard way.
I wouldn't want to tax a 'puter with video and firewires, unless you love the frustration that any computer is going to give you with video files. Or you are lucky.
Fred

[flintstone mop]

There are units out there that have VHS and DVD recorder to convert your home videos to digital....BUT then you run across the old copy protection thing that's embedded in the video like the Macrovision.........THEN you have to get another little add-on unit from Israel that will remove the copy protection. Been down that road too.
I like the new warnings that you cannot fast forward through, "even if the copy is not for monetary gain, it is still FORBIDDEN..........screw you...... movie industry and music industry..........attitude?
Fred

[W1RKW]

I learned the hardway.  Using a PC is difficult.  After trying all sorts of software for several days, I gave up  and capitulated to buying a DVD recorder for $99.00 at Best Buy.  It was simple after that. Simply slap a DVD and tape into the machines and press the buttons.

[W1UJR]

Thanks guys, picked up a VHS to DVD recorder at Best Buy this evening. 

Dubbing over the 1921 1BCG Trans-Atlantic Test video right now!
The system is slick, load in the DVD, load in the VHS tape to copy from, push one button and that is it! I can even watch the video on the TV while its copying over.

Sure beats fooling around with the computer, guess the analog to digital convertor goes back on eBay tomorrow morning!

These are free use recodings, for non-commerical viewing,  I'll gladly dub off a copy for those who want to send over a blank DVD.

Here is a list of what I have to copy:
- 1935 Tour of ARRL HQ (15 minutes)

- The 1921 Trans-Atlantic Tests and Station 1BCG (Bruce W2ICE narrates, 28 minutes)

- An American Inventor - Maj. Edward Howard Armstrong (Bruce W2ICE narrates, 50 minutes)

- Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Antennas...but were afraid to ask (1 hr minutes)

- Spark Gap (1 hr)


73 Bruce W1UJR

[N3DRB The Derb]

I've never met a video file I couldn't deal with, including full 1080p. You just have to have a computer with scrote. The computer is better for me because I have to encode the file into several different screen sizes and formats.

[W1RC]

The easiest way with the least amount of learning to convert a videotape to DVD is to use a DVD disc recorder and, as you have discovered, they are inexpensive.  However it doesn't allow you any latitude at all if you want to edit or do anything to the finished product like convert the video to another format which has several advantages.

The discussion of whether to use the DVD+ or DVD-format is the same as the controversy over BETA vs VHS was a generation ago.  They are not interchangeable despite the fact that the discs look similar.  Most new computers can use either disc but the problem is with the stand-alone DVD players.  This Web page has info on many players and which format they can read:

http://www.videohelp.com/dvdplayers

There are a couple excellent Web sites and forums on the subject:

http://www.videohelp.com/ (The AMFONE of Video)

http://www.doom9.net/  (great guides and free software)

http://www.rita.lt/  (lots of cool stuff for newbies)

You can get both software and guides on how to do just about anything.  Videohelp.com has some excellent "Newbie" guides that are very informative.

Using a computer to do the conversion is not too difficult.  There are two methods of encoding - hardware encoding and software encoding.  Your computer will have to have a video card with either a composite or S-video input, usually a yellow RCA jack.  The red and white jacks are audio right and left channels.  I am wondering which A-D converter you bought. 

You normally would capture the VHS video and encode to the MPG format.  Then you can convert it to the standard DVD format that can be read by the DVD player.  Then time to capture the video will be the time it takes to play the video.  Encoding ( or conversion) time is dependent upon your machine's processing speed.

Last March Wayne WA1SSJ loaned me the three VHS cassettes of the videos that Jeff KA1OGM made and I did the conversions.  I converted them to DivX and all three videos fit nicely on a single DVD.  They can be distributed freely as Jeff kindly indicated that he has placed them in the public domain.

The main advantage of capturing video to your hard drive is what you can do with it later.  I would recommend you convert the video to a MP4 format called DivX which is highly compressed.  PLEXTOR makes a neat hardware encoder that converts directly to DivX. You can get a two hour movie onto a single CD but for better quality a good rule of thumb is 1 CD for every hour of video.  A full DVD is usually over 4 GB.

DivX (or XviD) files are two versions of the MP4 format and are popular because the files can easily be exchanged online.  They are the same kind of thing as a MP3 audio file is to a WAV file.  The MPAA hates DivX as the RIAA hates MP3.  If the copyrights are clean and these vids are in the public domain they could be available here for download.   Of course there would have to be sufficient storage space on the server but I am sure that there's plenty.  Just ask the admin.

Macs and PCs can produce the same format so it doesn't matter which one you use.  However there is much greater variety of software available for the PC.  There are some stand-alone players that read the DivX and XviD formats.  The PHILIPS 642 is very popular and priced around $60.00.

If you have a DVD you want to "rip" to hard disc there's an excellent free utility called DVD Decrypter.  Use AutoGK (also free) to encode to DivX.  Then burn the finished file to a CD and you're done.

The best software player I know of is called VideoLAN and is open source free software.  There is a version for virtually all operating systems.  It plays just about anything.

http://www.videolan.org/

Good luck!

73,

MisterMike

[W1UJR]

I've never met a video file I couldn't deal with, including full 1080p. You just have to have a computer with scrote. The computer is better for me because I have to encode the file into several different screen sizes and formats.

Hi Derb,

Sounds like you are an expert on these things, can I pick your brain?

How does one go about making the DVD play in a full size screen on the computer?
I finished the dub, but when I try to play it on my iMac, it is only 1/4 of the screen in normal view, if I enlarge it the images are fuzzy.

Also, tried to play the DVD in my Bose system, the player would not recognize the DVD, displayed "incorrect format". Is this some sort of copy protection scheme that the DVD must conform to? Plays fine in the iMac.

Finally, since you are a Mac guy as well, can I copy the DVD into the iMac for editing, and if so, what program do I use?

Sorry for the many questions OM, but figure you've been down this path before.


73 Bruce W1UJR

[W1RC]

Loads of resources here:

http://www.doom9.net/

Click on "Guides".

Or, just ftp them:

http://www.rita.lt/video_tools/guides/

The video revolution is amazing!  Hardware available today for a couple hundred bucks were ten Gs and up not that long ago.  You can get a 3CCD camcorder for well under a Grand. 

The rest you can do on your PC or Mac.  Some of the editing software is incredible.  There's craploads of open source software that costs nothing. 

Who knows, you just might be the next Michael Moore!

Enjoy!

73,

MisterMike

[W1RC]

Video Captures and Conversions -  Playback Issues - Possible Solutions:

How does one go about making the DVD play in a full size screen on the computer?
I finished the dub, but when I try to play it on my iMac, it is only 1/4 of the screen in normal view, if I enlarge it the images are fuzzy.

Also, tried to play the DVD in my Bose system, the player would not recognize the DVD, displayed "incorrect format". Is this some sort of copy protection scheme that the DVD must conform to? Plays fine in the iMac.
73 Bruce W1UJR

Problem 1: This may be your software player and the CODECs already installed on your system.  Or, you may be using cheap cables.  I hope you're not feeding the signal from your VCR in through the tuner on the disc recorder!  Many Newbies make that error with unsatisfactory results.  You should use S-Video if your VCR has this output.  If not composite is the next best thing.  Try downloading and installing the VideoLan Player.  Most of the CODECs are internal and it will play just about any video file you can throw at it.

www.videolan.org

It's open source (free) and there's a version for just about every known platform (even Mac).

When the player opens do a Mac equivalent of a double click on the video screen and it should open to fill the screen. 

You may also have encoded it on the incorrect speed setting by mistake and the number of FPS is too low for decent quality.  You may have erroneously configured your machine to encode the video in MPEG1 instead of MPEG2 or not sized it correctly.  There are a lot of details that must be attended to in order to have great results.  Read your manual paying careful attention to the sections about FPS and encoding methods.  Re-capture at the highest FPS and MPEG2 which would give you one hour per DVD.  The aspect ratio of the original is most likely 4:3 and you want to go with 720 X 480 for correct sizing.If installing VideoLAN or re-capturing  at the correct FPS and encoding method doesn't work you have a real problem!

Problem 2:  Your video disc recorder may possibly install a Macrovision type encryption scheme when encoding your video.  Or, as with Problem 1, there may simply be CODEC issues.  If there are audio issues your video may have AC3 audio encoding and you have to purchase the CODEC to play it.  What make and model disc recorder did you buy?  Some CODECs (like the Fraunhofer IIS MPEG Layer-3 Codec)  require a payment of royalties for manufacturers who use it in their recorders' firmware.  Thus a cheap machine may not utilize this CODEC.

You may have to learn how to "rip" the DVD you just made on your recorder with software and encode it again.  However I do not recommend going this route as the results are likely to be mediocre.  Notwithstanding, it's pretty easy to learn how and I'm sure there is a software equivalent to DVD Decrypter for the Mac.  But, you'll probably have to pay.  The Derb will certainly know more about this than I since I use a Windoze-based system.  While you are asking find out what application he recommends to de-interlace the video.

Doing a professional job is not a simple matter and there is a very high learning curve given the complexity of the issues and the myriad of tools available; some better than others.  I have been fooling with multimedia and video for over six years and I learn something new every time.

The historical significance of these videos obligate you to do the best possible conversion (or let somebody else do it who can) since they are so important for the future generations of enthusiasts to come. 

For the highest possible quality conversions it's really best to use a computer that is designed and configured for multimedia applications to do the conversion/encryption/editing/rendering/burning especially if you want give them out to people on CD or DVD.  FYI: I run a P-4 3.6 GHz box with 2 GB of RAM, a RAID triple-drive array with 1 Terabyte (TB) of available storage, Canopus hardware video encoder, Pioneer 16X DVD writer and a 3 MB Verizon ADSL Internet connection.

Sooooo, if you run into too many more problems you can't deal with or just can't handle the job I'd be glad to do it for the overall good of the hobby if you send the original tapes to my callbook address.  I would capture the video properly and return your tapes within a week.   I would, of course, produce both a DVD and a DivX version as a matter of routine.

73,

MisterMike, W1RC

[N3DRB The Derb]

erk. ack.  Mr. mike, why Divx? Quicktime Pro h.264 would be a far better choice me thinks. You can scale that to anything from HD to ipod.

I mostly simply use imovie HD for my stuff, even though I have Final Cut Pro HD as well, but for the regular home movies on typical cams or analog conversion to disc imovie is more than good enough and pretty easy to pick up.

oh, and Bruce, I'd take Mike up on his offer unless you wanna learn how to do this stuff, and it sounds like you dont, just want the results.

I enjoy working with video, but it seems like me and the wifey are always up to something. You gotta have hours of time to actually make a decent flick.

Mike,  if you didnt have that Canopus, my dual G5's would still spank your P4.    not bad for a 2004 computer. I'd like to hang around long enough to get a Intel Mac Pro - I understand the new Woodcrest Intel Core Duo's make the G5's look like toys.

[W1RC]

Mr. Mike, why Divx? Quicktime Pro h.264 would be a far better choice me thinks. You can scale that to anything from HD to ipod.

......Bruce, I'd take Mike up on his offer unless you wanna learn how to do this stuff, and it sounds like you dont, just want the results.

Mike,  if you didn't have that Canopus, my dual G5's would still spank your P4.

Tim, I routinely encode in DivX (Xvid actually) over Quicktime Pro because I am well familiar with the appz, having used them for years, and know what they can do (and what they can't).  I only have the QT player but will convert any .mov files that come my way into DivX or MPEG2.  Also the appz I use are open-source which I prefer over proprietary stuff like QT Pro.

Despite anything else that has gone down I would be more than happy to convert Bruce's tapes for the general good and benefit of the Hobby.  I know I would sure love to see them and am certain many others would too.  Bruce mentioned that he has an A/D converter and I am wondering what he bought.  For whatever reason it didn't work for him.  He says he has access to a PC in an earlier post so I listed several links where he could download the guides and the suite of DivX tools at no charge.  However I realize there's more to it than just downloading the stuff; you have to know how to use the tools and there is a fairly steep learning curve.

As stated previously if Bruce sends me the cassettes I'll capture them and ship back the tapes right away.  Since analog quality deteriorates with each generation I would want to work with the originals, not copies.  Then I'll work on them as time permits.  Hopefully they will be ready for NEAR-Fest II.  I have a utility that converts to H.264 which would be for those with 5th Generation iPods that play video which I am sure many of us have. 

As with my automobiles and radios I don't compare my DP system with others because mine is configured for my requirements as I am sure yours is too.  A 3.6 GHz with 2GB of RAM and a full TB of storage is plenty for someone who started out with a PC-XT with 4.77 MHz, 640 KB of RAM and two 360 K floppy drives.  It really doesn't matter to me how fast the processor is because I generally allow vids to render overnight and it can do two or three feature-length conversions in 8 hours.  I have never used the Mac platform but I understand that since Windoze 95 the interfaces are pretty much the same overall.  I still often prefer the command line but use it less and less these days.  I know that Macs are less liable to become infected with malware but on the other hand there is a far greater selection of appz available for the Windoze machines, much of it open source.  My cars are Ford Crown Vic V-8s with the full highway police pack that have plenty of scrote and are easily capable of catching and wiping the a** of just about any car out there including the high-performance and expensive Yup-mobile Bimmers, Vulvas, SLAABs, Loudies, et al anytime I want.  However, but I'm not into that so I don't do it.  Notwithstanding, having some serious horsepower under the hood of a 4300 pound scroteful vehicle is a good feeling.

In any event my offer stands and if he wants to take me up on it in order to make these interesting vids available to the community. Since they are his tapes I would happily send him the finished product so he could handle the distribution and thus receive the credit he is due for making them available.

What do say you, Bruce?

73,

MisterMike, W1RC

[W1UJR]

I mostly simply use imovie HD for my stuff, even though I have Final Cut Pro HD as well, but for the regular home movies on typical cams or analog conversion to disc imovie is more than good enough and pretty easy to pick up.

Morning Derb,

You nailed it, that is exactly what I did. I used iMovie for the first time last night, it worked like a charm.
I ran the analog output of the Sony VHS/DVD deck into my Canopus ADVC-55 A/D convertor, then via Firewire directly into the iMac. Worked flawlessly, now I am going to edit the videos and combine into multiple DVDs. I love Apple, it just works.

So with the Sony VHS to DVD machine I can copy easily, and now with the Canopus convertor I can use the iMac to combine and edit. I've thought about Final Cut, what is your take on that product?
Been quite impressed with the free software that came with the iMac.

By the way, the iMac here is 24" model, 2.33 gHz processor, 3G of memory, 500G hard-drive, and NIVIDIA 7600 video card. Replaced my old Sony machine, no comparison. Video editing is just another cool toy to play with.


73 Bruce W1UJR

[W1RC]

I used iMovie for the first time last night, it worked like a charm.
I am going to edit the videos and combine into multiple DVDs.

Great!  We are all looking forward to seeing them. 

MisterMike, W1RC

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

For the record, H264 is NOT proprietary. It's part of the MPEG family of codecs, Part 10, to be exact. Quicktime/iMovie just provide easy access to H264, but there are likely others.