Solar Cell Array vs. 75m Wire

[W2JTD]

We just installed a 5kW array on the roof. Nice to see the meter run backwards!
Anyhoo, one leg of my 75m wire runs directly over it, about 10 feet up.
Aside from the obvious - get it higher, move it away from the house, and all that, I wonder if anyone can envision trouble here.
And, yes, I'm gonna move it. One of these days.
- Paul, W2JTD

[WA1GFZ]

Hey Paul what did the system cost you and did they let you install it?

It was about 15 year pay back last time I checked.
I would think not a problem if the converter is away from the RF field.
I have 800 square feet of 1/2 my roof sloping due south just waiting for the cost to come down.
very cool!

[wa1knx]

Hi Paul jingling tingling dinglberries!!

    Yes, I'm curious to, what was your cost? I'm here in AZ, and solar is like
gold, its sunny here most of the year. And for the moment, I'm stuck here this
summer. 5kw is nice

deano

[KF1Z]

Yeah.... could cause some problems.....

I have to guess, that if you have 5kw... that you have a MASSIVE array.... (400 square feet?)

Must cover an entire LARGE roof.....

and, may be new enough to have an AC inverter built in to each panel?

Or possibly it is the actual roofing.....



If there are inverters built into the panels.... you may interupt those when you transmit....

If not...... you may interfere with the charge-controller, even if it's located inn the basement.........



Other than that, maybe you'll just put a little extra charge into the batteries..!!!  :-)

[W2JTD]

Hey guys -

The 5 kW system consists of 20 panels on the roof facing due south, with the inverter in the garage.

Total cost was around $42k. After rebates from the State of New Jerky, my cost was $18k. Still a stiffie, but we estimate payback in 10 years. We also are in a co-op to sell energy credits to utilities and industry. Not a lot of money from that, but it helps.

Still baffles me why it's so expensive. They could be making roofing shingles from this stuff with interlocking grid tabs.

Deano - From what I remember of the wx in AZ, you could set up a solar energy farm!

The best part was watching the cat run across the roof and skid down the panels on her keister. Suprised the crap out of her!
-JTD

[WA1GFZ]

Paul,
That is a better deal than Ct. It was about $8K/KW but you only got about $4K/KW credit up to some max amount. It just about covered the installation costs and you can't install the system yourself and get state help. I guess the latest prices increases in electric rates has made it look better.
This is if you can go 10 years without a failure.
$20K in a CD might pay more in the long run. but not as cool

[wa1knx]

what I'd worry about is hail. we can get it big here, big chunk of ice
and crack - goodbye panels.

[KF1Z]

Still baffles me why it's so expensive. They could be making roofing shingles from this stuff with interlocking grid tabs.

They have made them for over 12 years now......

Why isit so expensive??

It's still a novelty to most people......

"Rocket Science" if you will

[KF1Z]

what I'd worry about is hail. we can get it big here, big chunk of ice
and crack - goodbye panels.

With the newer amorphous cells, that's not as much of a concern.

You can shoot at those many times, with no loss of power.

(well, until you've destroyed a significant surface area...)  :-)

[W2JTD]

what I'd worry about is hail. we can get it big here, big chunk of ice
and crack - goodbye panels.

Hail? DDDid you say hail? Jeez! I already lose sleep during an electrical storm - now this.

Guess I can sit on the roof and try to bat the hailstones away with the cat. (Note: another good use for the cat, besides trebuchet fodder)

Yes, these panels seem more resilient than the older ones. Hope so...

- JTD

[n3lrx]

Does solar energy really pay itself off?

What is the maintenance cost for the panels and the batteries?
How about replacing the Batteries, cost of replacement and disposal?

About disposal of the old cells? Does 'The Soviet of New Jersey' (as Irb would say) make it a pain in the scrote to dispose of such 'Hazardous Waste'?

Things like this I wonder about because they're all on this 'Alternative Energy' kick and try to promote it by rebates and tax credits but the overall picture they seem to make it a PITA to do it. And the manufactures certainly don't seem to want to cut you any breaks either! Maybe it's because they know they can get the cash, because people will still buy based on rebates and tax credits.

Although I would admit if I had the cash to spend I could probably use a 5KW system and in this small house I would probably never even come close to taxing its potential output. I'd probably sell more than I use!

[KF1Z]

Does solar energy really pay itself off?

What is the maintenance cost for the panels and the batteries?
How about replacing the Batteries, cost of replacement and disposal?

.

Although I would admit if I had the cash to spend I could probably use a 5KW system and in this small house I would probably never even come close to taxing its potential output. I'd probably sell more than I use!

It all depends on you lifestyle.... and the size of the system... and supplimental power production.... like windpower, or hydro...

Lifestyle being the big factor....
If your "appliance dependent", you will need a larger system to make it work...
If you don't use electricity for heating and cooling, for example....that's in your favor.
As is things like dishwasher, microwave...etc and so on....
The less dependent you are on the evil juice :-) ...the better of you are...

(I won't even bother to mention the 1kw toob AM rigs....  let's keep our priorities in line !! )


Remember too, that is 5kw per hour of DIRECT sun ( maybe 4 to 5 hours per day at 'full' output? without a tracker.) ... and you need to store for nighttime, and cloudy days!
Yes, those pesky cloudy days..... sometimes we go a week or more of those here in Verminmont....


By the way... I am in no way knocking Paul's system... I think it's great he can do it!
I lived 4 years totally "off the grid" with only 100 watts in total panel output...!
And then another few years partially off.
You learn to optimize priorities...and you learn to keep track of the weather...
I had my 2m cb, TV, lights, stereo, computer.... you know, "all the comforts of shack".

During the ice storm, the only way I noticed the power outage, was there were fewer, and fewer people to talk to on the repeaters!


For my current situation.... 5kw would just about do it for me...
we use 11kwh/day.



As for maintenence... mostly battery maintenance....

Most solar panels now have 20 to 30 year warranties for 85% deration...

Batteries...good ones  will last 10 years +



Oh well.... enough of that..... doesn't have much to do with the origional post!
But a fun, and often misunderstood subject.

SRI

[KF1Z]

Oh yes, I forgot to mention.....

IF you DO have any problems with the inverter acting up when you transmit....

Should be able to clear it up with the standard ferrite cores on the DC lines into the unit, along with bypass caps ....

Most problems would only be with the RF screwing up the wave form generator in the inverter...

Oh, and utility line syncronization circuit....

[wa1knx]

the other thing I worried about is the bastard kids, like bashing mailboxes I can
see the deviants having fun chucking rocks at the panels. crack, $10,000 gone.
mailbox got creamed last year here. and at my moms in maine.

[K6JEK]

We just installed a 5kW array on the roof. Nice to see the meter run backwards!
Anyhoo, one leg of my 75m wire runs directly over it, about 10 feet up.
Aside from the obvious - get it higher, move it away from the house, and all that, I wonder if anyone can envision trouble here.
And, yes, I'm gonna move it. One of these days.
- Paul, W2JTD

I'm about to do the same thing myself, put in a 5 kW grid connected system.   Your rebates are better than the ones I'm expecting to get in California. 

I was frustrated in my attempt to find out which inverters are radio friendly.  I ended up ordering a Sunpower which is OEM'd from Xantrex.   Another ham out here has a system with a Xantrex and was able to quiet it down with some mondo RF chokes on the AC side.  Without them it, like the Sharp and Fronious  I also measured, had pretty bad conducted EMI. 

I don't know yet about RF susceptibility.   Jack, the aforementioned other ham, is having no problems but he's not running a big AM signal as I do.   I've been told by a friend who designs chips for switching power supplies big and small and does EMI testing that susceptibility is not usually the issue.   Neither is radiated EMI.   The tough one is usually conducted EMI.   I sure hope so, since that's the one we know how to fix.

Which inverter did you get?

Jon, K6JEK

[W2JTD]

Does solar energy really pay itself off?

What is the maintenance cost for the panels and the batteries?
How about replacing the Batteries, cost of replacement and disposal?

About disposal of the old cells? Does 'The Soviet of New Jersey' (as Irb would say) make it a pain in the scrote to dispose of such 'Hazardous Waste'?

Hi Randy, Yell R X -

There are no batteries - electric meter runs backward when the sun is out. It's spinning now. The local electric utility is the storage.

Yes - it pays off.. monetarily and psychologically.

If I installed it myself, it would have been much more economical, but I just don't have the time.

Still have that Apache running?
-JTD

[W2JTD]

Which inverter did you get?

Jon, K6JEK

Hi Jon -

The inverter is a Sunpower SPR5000x.

- Paul, JTD

[W2JTD]

the other thing I worried about is the bastard kids, like bashing mailboxes I can
see the deviants having fun chucking rocks at the panels. crack, $10,000 gone.
mailbox got creamed last year here. and at my moms in maine.

No worries here Deano -
The neighborhood kids are afraid of me.
Check out my website for my photo and you'll see why.
I yelled at them once, and with my crossed eye they just assume I'm nuts and stay away.
Besides, my wife would simply rip one of their legs off and beat them to death with it.

Did I mention I am no longer a pacifist vegetarian?

- P

[wa1knx]

ha, you look like I pictured you   so your now a member of
p.e.t.a eh? (thats people eating tasty animals)  I miss AMing with
you guys back there. I'm left to late night am back east with
the beam. early evenings too tough in the summer. anyway
enjoy the electricity!  I'd be able to generate a pile of it here.

[W2JTD]

Deano -

Just to keep you frightened, I might be in Scottsdale this September visiting some folks Maggie and I met when we were on vacation in the Bahamas.

Lock the door and draw the blinds, sonny.

There's no escaping the 75 neighborhood.

- JTD

[W2JTD]

Paul,
That is a better deal than Ct. It was about $8K/KW but you only got about $4K/KW credit up to some max amount. It just about covered the installation costs and you can't install the system yourself and get state help. I guess the latest prices increases in electric rates has made it look better.
This is if you can go 10 years without a failure.
$20K in a CD might pay more in the long run. but not as cool

Frank -

I suppose I'm at around 3.5K/KW. Still nuts expensive. We blew all our cash on it.

I wanted a Heritage Softail Classic, but we compromised and got the solar setup.

See how logic works?

- JTD

[K6JEK]

Which inverter did you get?

Jon, K6JEK

Hi Jon -

The inverter is a Sunpower SPR5000x.

- Paul, JTD
/quote]

We'll be solar twins.   That's the inverter I've ordered too.   It's made for Sunpower by Xantrex.

[W2JTD]

I snapped a few photos if anyone is interested.

http://home.comcast.net/~w2jtd/solar2.htm

I'll quit beating this thread to death. Thanks for all the comments.

- Paul, W2JTD

[KB2WIG]

 'snice   

 klc

[n1exi]

Hey Paul - just went solar here too!!! I use a magnifying  glass to light my smokes!!
l