40m Jamming is Back

[WA1GFZ]

I had a highly modified SB303 to deal with the woodpecker. I would park next to radio moscow on 40 and operate cw. This attracted many UAs

[w5omr]

Kinda like what some AMers feel about the 'window'.

There used to be a time, when everyone on AM gathered around 3.870 to 3.890, with QSO's spaced around 5kc apart.
Then the Mississippi Magnolia net cranked up and said "you can't operate here - why, we've done been here since..." and they parked on 3.878.  I remember a time, in the mid/late 80's, no one had -heard- of the Mississippi Magnolia Net, and it was only later that the 'net' members were using that frequency at night-time, for their local rag-chewing sessions.  The actual 'net' meets in the Mornings at 0600 ~ 0700 CST.

But, that's where the fuss started (for me) about the 'Window'.  There was allllll this other band-space on 75m around and AM'ers were using less than 10%, in the 20kc we were operating in at the time.  When the band was 'opened' to allow phone down to 3.8Mc, there was lots more space, yet the same old arguments remain.

What I -really- don't get is, with as easy as it is now, why anyone with enough technical expertise to properly operate an AM station (ie: NOT plug-n-play appliance operators) doesn't upgrade their amateur license to Extra Class, to enjoy -all- of the Bandwidth available and to avoid the on-air battles and hassle's.
 

[k4kyv]

There used to be a time, when everyone on AM gathered around 3.870 to 3.890, with QSO's spaced around 5kc apart.
Then the Mississippi Magnolia net cranked up and said "you can't operate here - why, we've done been here since..." and they parked on 3.878.  I remember a time, in the mid/late 80's, no one had -heard- of the Mississippi Magnolia Net, and it was only later that the 'net' members were using that frequency at night-time, for their local rag-chewing sessions.  The actual 'net' meets in the Mornings at 0600 ~ 0700 CST.

Sounds a little like the 7290 No-Traffic net before they made the mistake of tangling with Ashtabula Bill.

I recall when the Wally and Richard crowd decided to start using 3878 some time in the 1990s, with the expressed intent of "running the AMers off the band" as members of that group repeatedly boasted.  More than once, one of that group would threaten to come here to my QTH to do everything from tearing down my antennas to physically assaulting me because I refused to tuck my tail and QSY when they demanded the frequency. If I had made a few audio recordings as evidence, I probably could have successfully pressed felony charges against some of them for communicating threats over the air, but the more you stir faecal matter, the more it stinks.  I don't know if they had anything to do with the Magnolia net.  I think the W&R crowd were mostly in Alabama and Georgia.

Finally, W&R must have received Rileygrams.  I heard them one night cussing and bad-mouthing Riley, and then they abruptly disappeared.  They may still get on the frequency, but if so, they have taken a lower profile because I haven't heard them for years.

[Steve - K4HX]

Fireball (pronounced Farball) took their place.

[WB2EMS]

There's a group around 3712 who send pictures back and forth, I suspect it was them as they feel they own the 'channel'.

Well, 3713 has been the home to digital sstv for several years that I've been listening and they do have a regular net at 9am and 9pm as well as activity at other times. For such a niche activity, it really does help to have a recognized hang out spot, much like AM activity at times has depended on being able to find fellow AM'ers in the 'window'. Perhaps while we're exercising our VFO's and establishing activity other places, being cognizant of other minority activity and being good neighbors might pay some dividends. After all, they are subject to the same kind of rejection by the majority that we seem to be and would seem to be ready made allies.

I guess it must be the 'Pink Monkey Syndrome' - I just don't get why some folks are so bothered by anything that ventures outside the norm - in this case the norm being slopbucket radio. AM, SSTV, digital modes, all seem to attract a certain number of mouth breathers who just have this religious zeal to stamp out whatever offends their sensibilities. Why? I've seen hams I otherwise respect dial up the analog SSTV frequency on 20 and declare it "The National Tune Up frequency" and proceed to tweak their amp and tuner prior to operating elsewhere in the band. I was just shocked at that kind of behavior.  

Too bad there isn't a way to vote the morons off the island.

BTW, that digital SSTV software gives the old russian airplane jammers a run for it's money. It's essentially a DRM engine generating a number of subcarriers and running them QPSK simultaneously. Pretty solidly blankets a 2 Khz swath. I think that's what someone has been using up on the 3892 guys by the sounds of it.

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/pink_monkey.htm

[w5omr]

Sounds a little like the 7290 No-Traffic net before they made the mistake of tangling with Ashtabula Bill.

the big difference is, the W&R show/Magnolia net suddenly 'appeared' with the intent of destroying AM communications.  In Contrast, the 7.290 traffic net was in operation back in the 50's, and on AM when it first started.

HISTORY OF THE 7290 TRAFFIC NET

BY

Bea Winnett, K5BNH

   It is believed “THE 7290 TRAFFIC NET” was the first Phone Net to be organized on 40 Meters when phone privileges were given to the Hams about 1951 or ’52.  Hubert W5ZIN, Al W5VSH, and a number of others were meeting on 7220 as “THE REBEL NET”.  Some of the MARS Stations around the area moved from the Mars Frequency of 7305 to 7290 to pass messages that were other than Military.  The group from the “THE REBEL NET” on 7220 moved up to help them and exchange messages with them.  This group then became known as the “Yankee Net”  and later as “THE 7290 TRAFFIC NET”.

I recall when the Wally and Richard crowd decided to start using 3878 some time in the 1990s, with the expressed intent of "running the AMers off the band" as members of that group repeatedly boasted.

That was back in the days of K5SWK/Otis, K5MZH/Koby(SK), WA5BXO/John, WD5EHS/"Sulphur John"(SK), K5LLK/Bill(SK), W5MEU/John(SK), W5PYT/Ozona Bob(SK), WA5VGO/Darrell, K5FZ/Mike, KA5THB/Geoff (now W5OMR) and a whole raft of others would occupy 3.880 mostly in Texas and Louisiana.  What a conglomeration!

 More than once, one of that group would threaten to come here to my QTH to do everything from tearing down my antennas to physically assaulting me because I refused to tuck my tail and QSY when they demanded the frequency. If I had made a few audio recordings as evidence, I probably could have successfully pressed felony charges against some of them for communicating threats over the air, but the more you stir faecal matter, the more it stinks.  I don't know if they had anything to do with the Magnolia net.  I think the W&R crowd were mostly in Alabama and Georgia.

I'm sure the names have changed, but that's where the Magnolia net got it's origins.  Not only are they not ARRL recognized, they're big claim is they don't recognize the ARRL, and therefore they didn't recognize the ARRL's recognition of the "AM Window".  That was someone's mistake anyway, because 3.885 has only ever been designated by the ARRL as the "AM Calling Frequency" for 75m.  Much like 146.52 is the national FM Calling frequency of 2m, where you make a call, make contact and move off to another simplex frequency so someone else can do likewise.
Other than Steve/WB3HUZ's "AM Window" Website, there's never been an operators "AM Window" on 75m.  There's a calling frequency and in the interest of those old, big transmitters, QSY'ing 5 or 10kC wasn't a big thing.  Moving from 3.885 to say 3.990 - (as Otis would say) That's a horse of a different corral. ;-)

One of these days, Don, I'll get back up near Nashville and if I do, would love to come by and check out Radio Station K4KYV.  Another Tennessee anchor in the call of W4QCU has been visited by myself on multiple occasions and Dave has a nice place, and a collectors museum of 'treasures'.  Oak Ridge isn't that far from Woodlawn.

[KC2ZFA]

holy smokes...what a mess. I recently returned to the hobby after a long
absence and I must say that listening to 80/40 ssb is a hoot. Not much
different than medium-wave talk radio. The other day I was listening to a
three-station lsb roundtable on 3.999 Mc discussing how the participants
are within the rules because their S-meters didn't kick much when they
tuned above 4 Mc  Of course none of them were signing properly.
Ridiculous stuff.

Peter

[k4kyv]

One of these days, Don, I'll get back up near Nashville and if I do, would love to come by and check out Radio Station K4KYV.  Another Tennessee anchor in the call of W4QCU has been visited by myself on multiple occasions and Dave has a nice place, and a collectors museum of 'treasures'.  Oak Ridge isn't that far from Woodlawn.

Would be delighted to have you stop by.  Oak Ridge is several hours drive from here, near Knoxville.  Woodlawn is NW of Nashville, near Clarksville and Ft. Campbell, KY.  The helicopters that train near the army base have to dodge my tower.

After their run-in with Ashtabula Bill, the 7290 No-Traffic net now operates a little lower in the  band whenever there is already AM activity on the frequency at their start-up time. The only bone I ever had to pick with them was that they would begin the net right on top of an existing QSO that might have been in progress for hours, and then complain about the QRM.  I think Riley must have communicated something about operating practice to them after they reported Bill to the FCC.  Right after that, the net began to show more proper consideration for others who share the frequency.

[W2PFY]

I actually heard them pass a piece of traffic today. First time ever!!

[Steve - K4HX]

A piece of traffic flew up and hit my windshield once.

[W5COA]

Howdy,

I am also reminded of the SSB/AM wars during the '60's. As I am not one who enjoys conflict, it turned me away from the hobby for a while.

One of the countermeasures that was employed when an SSB qso would zero in on an AM qso in progress was to let each AM station's vfo drift off a few cps. Every time the baton was passed, the SSB'ers had to re-zero.

Another thing we did when the channel started getting too much qrm was to pass the transmission to one of the really powerful stations, like SWK or HQJ, even if it was not his turn in the rotation. A couple of minutes of SWK's signal, and the frequency was clear again for the 100 Watters.

I have wondered about the current SSB nets in the middle of the AM window, and realize that we don't "own" the frequencies, but it sure would be nice if we had 3880, 85, and 90 reserved for AM. It doesn't seem like too much to ask out of the 3500 - 4000 spectrum.

73,
Jim W5COA

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

There's a group around 3712 who send pictures back and forth, I suspect it was them as they feel they own the 'channel'.

Kinda like what some AMers feel about the 'window'.

Precisely. In fact, I heard one of them a while back running on about the SSBers needing to stay out of there, 'us AMers only use these few frequencies, you have the rest of the band' and similar BS. Wanted to tell him to speak for himself please, but no transmitter working right now.

Speaking for myself, I want no frequency reserved for me or AM operation. To me that, like labeling ourselves as a 'specialty' or 'legacy' mode to somehow appear elite makes people assume we're some kind of exception. And exceptions are easy to remove. We should present ourselves as nothing more or less than another typical, accepted mode found on the mode switch of most all new rigs as well as old.

There was allllll this other band-space on 75m around and AM'ers were using less than 10%, in the 20kc we were operating in at the time.

And shame on us for falling into that trap. I suspect the true reason behind it initially was the sheer lack of AMers left on the air, safety in numbers, and so on. But this mentality prevailed even in the late 80s/early 90s when there were plenty more AMers around. I was as guilty as the rest because I knew no different. Until I heard old Uncle Ed down around 3820 or vicinity one night. That's when it hit me - the only limiting factor for us is....us.

What I -really- don't get is, with as easy as it is now, why anyone with enough technical expertise to properly operate an AM station (ie: NOT plug-n-play appliance operators) doesn't upgrade their amateur license to Extra Class, to enjoy -all- of the Bandwidth available and to avoid the on-air battles and hassle's.
 

Makes sense, doesn't it? So does spinning the VFO, yet some have a difficult time doing so, regardless of mode, even though they have privileges up or down the band. Again, self-selection, self-limiting. I certainly support anyone's right to operate wherever they choose within their license class, even if it's in a place I'd find annoying. It's all he P&Ming and needless battling, as you say Geoff, that leaves one wondering. Listen around the band most evenings. Vast, empty areas.

As far as the SSTV guys on 3713, that's good for them. Apparently this gives them special rights to jam anyone using the frequency before they show up, or anyone within 10 kc of their frequency, something they do on a regular basis when we're on. Applying the 'we were here first' mentality, I lit off 3715 on midnight the day they opened up the band, and operate down there regularly for a year or more. So, it must be my channel! 

My only issue with any of it is that we're all big kids and should be smart enough to use another frequency or portion of the band if our pet frequency is in use. Particularly in the age of cellphones and email, it can't be too difficult to let your buddies know where you've moved down or up to (if they aren't clever enough to locate you themselves).

[Opcom]

A piece of traffic flew up and hit my windshield once.

A dragon hit my windshield once in the rain at night. It broke a windshield wiper off the M35 and cracked the passenger windshield

[k4kyv]

The jamming started at precisely 0430Z this evening (10:30PM local time).

[WA3VJB]

I wonder how the Dog X-Ray operators managed to establish and maintain their "DX Windows" all these years.

Same sort of voluntary cooperation we have tried to implement with our grouping of operating to minimize friction against other incompatible modes and activity, yet DXers seem to be granted more leeway for the areas they wish to protect.

[K5UJ]

I wonder how the Dog X-Ray operators managed to establish and maintain their "DX Windows" all these years.

My guess is A.  They're operating slopbucket which makes them seem less of an "enemy."   B.   I don't think they make any claims to the DX Windows except when there is DX and/or a contest.  C.  When one or both of those conditions apply, there are so many of them they overwhelm the DX Window with signals and it's game over.   D.  There are lots of huge DX fanatic signals--I was amazed at the number of yagis and quads on 200 foot towers out there that are full sized for 75 m.  There's one guy up in Canada somewhere who owns his own crane for servicing his 4 el. 80 m. yagi.   And I imagine they have spared no expense in the RF linear amp department either.   It's insane on that level (to me at least) and while we have a number of strapping AM signals the combination of highly compressed SSB and a 2 el. quad at 200 feet means the typical mouth breathing sociopath troll with his AL-80B and TS-450 to a G5RV doesn't have a chance.

[W2VW]

Start up a ragchew session in the DX window and see what happens.

I wonder how the Dog X-Ray operators managed to establish and maintain their "DX Windows" all these years.

Same sort of voluntary cooperation we have tried to implement with our grouping of operating to minimize friction against other incompatible modes and activity, yet DXers seem to be granted more leeway for the areas they wish to protect.

[Ed/KB1HYS]

Speaking for myself, I want no frequency reserved for me or AM operation. To me that, like labeling ourselves as a 'specialty' or 'legacy' mode to somehow appear elite makes people assume we're some kind of exception. And exceptions are easy to remove. We should present ourselves as nothing more or less than another typical, accepted mode found on the mode switch of most all new rigs as well as old.

You have struck the Nail squarely on the head!  This is precisely the attitude that needs to be maintained.  It was one of the reasons I did not like the bandwidth proposal, because it listed AM as an exception, on certain bands.  Once you allow yourself to be marginalized, it's only a matter of time before the managment changes hands and you're OUT.

Phone is phone, By definition, SSB is Amplitude Modulation... operate where you license allows, always be a good AMbassador... fair-minded but firm.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

 It was one of the reasons I did not like the bandwidth proposal, because it listed AM as an exception, on certain bands.  

Not really true. In the original RM-11306 in the section for 97.305, the modified table listed the maximum SSB bandwidth (3.5 KHz) in the phone segments. Note 1 was tagged to each phone band listing probably because SSB, without question, is the most popular mode.

Note (1) The 3.5 kHz maximum bandwidth does not apply to double-sideband amplitude-modulated phone A3E emissions which are limited to bandwidths of up to 9 KHz.

The "Note" was applied to all frequencies/bands where phone is allowed. They could have just as easily listed the maximum DSB/AM bandwidth in the table and listed SSB in the "Note" or made the table twice as big and listed a separate line for DSB/AM and SSB in each band listing. If you read the entire proposal, there was never any attempt to limit DSB/AM operations any more or less then any other phone mode.

The original RM-11306 submission is here: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/comment/view?id=5513332943

[k4kyv]

If you read the entire proposal, there was never any attempt to limit DSB/AM operations any more or less then any other phone mode.

Maybe that wasn't the "intent", but what happens once the proposal is incorporated into the regulations, when new people eventually come on board at the FCC, and that happens to include some jackass who for whatever reason is vehemently opposed to AM?

Remember the AM power issue?  In the original Notice of Proposed Rulemaking, it was specifically stated in the introduction (approximate quote from memory): "It is our intent to improve the method for determining transmitter power, not to change the actual power levels that amateurs are allowed to use."

[Steve - K4HX]

You guys are missing the larger point. Regulation and segmentation by bandwidth is the problem, not how much bandwidth and what was or wasn't footnoted.

  It was one of the reasons I did not like the bandwidth proposal, because it listed AM as an exception, on certain bands. 

Not really true. In the original RM-11306 in the section for 97.305, the modified table listed the maximum SSB bandwidth (3.5 KHz) in the phone segments. Note 1 was tagged to each phone band listing probably because SSB, without question, is the most popular mode.

Note (1) The 3.5 kHz maximum bandwidth does not apply to double-sideband amplitude-modulated phone A3E emissions which are limited to bandwidths of up to 9 KHz.

The "Note" was applied to all frequencies/bands where phone is allowed. They could have just as easily listed the maximum DSB/AM bandwidth in the table and listed SSB in the "Note" or made the table twice as big and listed a separate line for DSB/AM and SSB in each band listing. If you read the entire proposal, there was never any attempt to limit DSB/AM operations any more or less then any other phone mode.

The original RM-11306 submission is here: http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/comment/view?id=5513332943

[Pete, WA2CWA]

If you read the entire proposal, there was never any attempt to limit DSB/AM operations any more or less then any other phone mode.

Maybe that wasn't the "intent", but what happens once the proposal is incorporated into the regulations, when new people eventually come on board at the FCC, and that happens to include some jackass who for whatever reason is vehemently opposed to AM?

Using the same wild speculation, someone might come into the FCC that firmly believe all current HF amateur operations are a total waste of time, spectrum, and money and put a motion in place to kill it all. You don't need a bandwidth proposal to make this happen.

[Pete, WA2CWA]

You guys are missing the larger point. Regulation and segmentation by bandwidth is the problem, not how much bandwidth and what was or wasn't footnoted.

It wasn't a problem for me although there were some issues in the original proposal that I addressed in my comment filing.

[WA3VJB]

You guys are missing the larger point. Regulation and segmentation by bandwidth is the problem, not how much bandwidth and what was or wasn't footnoted.

Bingo !  We have a winner.

The premise was flawed, in suggesting a coordination scheme by bandwidth rather than the longstanding system that arrays by activity.

[k4kyv]

Using the same wild speculation, someone might come into the FCC that firmly believe all current HF amateur operations are a total waste of time, spectrum, and money and put a motion in place to kill it all. You don't need a bandwidth proposal to make this happen.

The "wild" speculation is based on historical fact.  It happened once before.  In about 1973 Johnny Johnston took the position as chief of the amateur rulemaking division, a position he held for over 20 years, until he retired sometime in the  late 90's.  Almost immediately, the FCC began generating anti-AM proposals in the form of restructuring dockets that just "happened" to include provisions that would somehow adversely restrict AM operation or eliminate it altogether.  The pinnacle had to be Docket 20777, a bandwidth proposal not too different from the League's but providing no "exception" footnote for AM, that would have eliminated AM from all bands on frequencies below 28 mc/s. For nearly two decades, a steady stream of these docket proposals came down, each one ultimately rejected due to the untiring efforts by the AM community, until they finally managed to nail us with that power limit B.S.  We do have to give Johnston credit in that he seemed to lay off from attacks against AM during the last few years of his tenure.

It would be far easier to delete a separate footnote than to eliminate provisions that are thoroughly embedded throughout numerous paragraphs in the regulations.