AX-9909 Data?

[Herb K2VH]

Does anybody know where I can find operating data for the AX-9909 toob?  That's the one Leo Meyerson put into the Globe Champion 300 series final amplifier.  It used a pair of them modulated by a pair of 809s.  They're pretty scarce today, and to my knowledge, ARRL's handbook tables only provide base diagrams, but no operating data.

[nq5t]

Look here.  There is some basic data -- use the 6083 info, same toob.

http://www.wps.com/archives/tube-datasheets/Indices/6083.html

Grant/NQ5T

[Herb K2VH]

Thanks Grant.  That helps.  I would still like to see a breakdown between phone and cw ratings.  If anybody can supply that info yet, I would be very appreciative.

Happy New Year Grant!

K2VHerb

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

I found this in my files.

From the 'AMPEREX TUBES for SINGLE SIDEBAND RF LINEAR AMPLIFIER SERVICE' booklet

Amperex Tube Type 6083/AX-9909

Tentative Data, Single Sideband Ratings
Maximum Ratings, Absolute Values
Class AB1 and AB2

DC Plate Voltage                    1000 volts max.
DC Grid No. 2 Voltage                300 volts max.
DC Grid No. 1 Voltage               -250 volts max.
Max Signal DC Plate Current          210 mA max.
Max Signal Plate Input               180 watts max.
Max Signal Grid No. 2 Input            7 watts max.
Plate Dissipation                     45 watts max.
Frequency                             60 Mc max.


Yes, these are sideband numbers, but they should allow you to guesstimate AM phone numbers. For example, Eimac usually de-rates plate dissipation by about one-third for plate modulated service. This would place the AX9909 at about 30 watts plate dissipation for plate modulated service. When I used these tubes in my Globe Champion 300, there was 1 kV on the plates and the current (for two tubes) was around 275 mA. These tubes have a ton of emission. Tuning off resonance would peg the 400 mA meter on the Globe Champ.

Also, the link Grant provides has this in the description column.

Radiation cooled pentode with low voltage - high current characteristics. Powder glass dish type base with short internal lead connection. Up to 150 watts, Class C Telephony, ICAS.

That's about where the Globe Champ ran them. I could get 200 watts output, so that's somewhere between 260-280 watts input, depending on efficiency.

A single 7094 makes a great replacement for the two 9909s in the Globe Champion 300. It uses the same socket, so only a few wiring changes, 6.3 on the filaments vice 12.6 and adjustment of the screen voltage upwards (all easily done). The 7094 will coast along at 200 watts out.

[The Slab Bacon]

How about a pair of 5894s, they are good for somewhere around 100w each? There has not been much demand for them lately and they can be found cheaply at festers.
I believe that they use the same socket. They are a dual tetrode and you can just tie the 2 sections together. If not, the 8643 is an even beefier version of the same tube that used to be used in Motorola high powered VHF and UHF Motracs. They are also becoming easily findable I have bunches of both around here.
                                                                                     The Slab bacon

[Herb K2VH]

Hey Huz Man and Slab Bacon.

Thanks for your info and suggestions.  I appreciate it very much.  My real situation is this:  I don't own a Globe Champ 300 or 350 (I do own a Champ 165 which runs a single 812A).  I also own nine new 4-65As, and have been wondering if I could put two of those into a Champ 300 instead of the AX-9909s.  That's why I wanted the specs on those tubes.  I might try to locate a Champ 300, 300A or 350 if people thought the 4-65A would be a good replacement for the 9909.  They both have 7 pin sockets from what I can tell, and I might just be able to plug in a pair of 4-65s and run out some plate caps and make some wiring changes.  Then maybe I could series up the filaments to get close to 6 volts.  I would love to use those 4-65As of mine.  What do you think?

73, and thanks again.
K2VHerb

[W3SLK]

While were on this thread, what IS the difference between the AX9909 and the 6083. I have been told that the 6083 is a bit more stouter than the AX9909.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

The 6083 and AX9909 are the same tube - no difference.

The 4-65s should work FB Herb. They do seem to like higher plate voltage to really sing but should still be OK with 1000 volts. Go for it.

[The Slab Bacon]

Steve is right, they are a higher impedance tube, wanting a higher plate voltage at a lower current. But they are cute little suckers! I dont remember what their filament voltages are. Other than that they will prolly work fine, but maybe have a little lower outpoot due to the lower plate voltage. This is not always a bad thing. Can you say headroom!
                                                                                   The Slab Bacon

[Herb K2VH]

Thanks again Huz and Slab.  Actually, unlike the bigger tubes in the series (4-125; 4-250, etc.)Eimac rated the 4-65 all the way down to 600 plate volts at still high efficiency.  They actually suggested using them in moibile service because of the instant heating filaments.  The fils, by the way, Frank, are 6 volts at 3.5 amps (not 6.3 for some reason).  Anyhow, maybe I could series their filaments and run them off the 12 volts needed for the 9909s.  Or, I could just put in a new fil tranny.  The big question was also whether the two tubes use the same socket, which apparently they do.  I might just start looking for a modern Champ (300, 300A, 350), and get ready to put those cute little 4-65s to work.  They are gutsy little pubes.

Thanks!
Herb

Steve,
I forgot to mention how cool Santa Dog looks.  He's a neat guy!
H

[Roy K8VWX]

     Hey VH - John w8tph converted the  GC/300 using a pair of 5894s and then sold it to Glenn wa3gpe. So if you hear him on 80 give him a call. It is an easy change over.HOPE YOU ARE FEELING BETTERwith your cold.

[Herb K2VH]

Hey Roid,

Thanks for the info, but I don't want to used 5894s.  I have nine new 4-65As that I would like to put to work in that rig (two at a time, of course).

No, my cold is still climbing toward peak of feeling lousy.  I canceled PT today, although I didn't want to.

73,
Hem

[kd5cpl]

Hi All--
Ran across this thread several days after it was going on. I found some spares for my Globe Champion 300, when they arrived one of them (Phillips) brand was marked with both the 6083 and PE1/100 numbers. Two others were PE1/100's, without the 6083 on them.  I found a tube data site that confirmed the Phillips number as another designation for the AX9909/6083.

Anybody know what the heck these were ever used in besides the Globe Champs?

Just thought I might throw this in.
Thanks;
Gary

[Herb K2VH]

Anybody know what the heck these were ever used in besides the Globe Champs?
Just thought I might throw this in.
Thanks;
Gary

You're welcome, Gary.  And thanks for sharing.  No, I have no idea what those crazy tubes were ever used in besides the Globe Champs!

BTW, I have one of the original Globe Champs--the 165, from 1952--used a single 812A modulated by push-pull parallel 6L6s.  Works great at 175 in; 125 out.

73,
K2VHerb

[Tim WA1HnyLR]

Hnyello Herb , A Globe Chump eh? Years ago I drop a single 7094 in a Globe Chump. Try and find a 7094 today. I would go with a pair of 4D32 s  They will handle 1000 volts no problem. They are now available and they are cheap! I would get rid of the 8O9 modulators and drop in a pair of 811 s. And of course de hnyllaphy the audio. Have fun  deTim WA1HnyLR

[ke7trp]

Did the poster ever conver the Globe to use the 4-65s?  I am curious as to what happend with this.

Clark

[n5op]

I finally obtained my Dad's (W5JHJ, SK July 21, 2007) old Globe Champion 350 transmitter and Hammarlund HQ-170 receiver. The Globe has the original AX9909 tubes in it and I had recalled that he had a pair of spares. But, of all the vacuum tube I could find in his shop, there were no spare AX9909s. I also couldn't find the I've no idea how much time is on them, but I'll  use those until they quit. I also couldn't find the original manual for it, in which he had documented what changes and modifications he'd made, along with the origincal sales receipt.

Having read this thread, it seems that the 4D32 might be a viable replacement with almost no electrical changes needed. I can find those, but can't easily locate some of the others mentioned. I have plenty of 809s and 811s for replacement modulators. He had some other oddball tubes, too, and I'll have to sort through them and see what's there.

Do the 4D32 tubes take the same socket as the AX9909 tubes?

Kim N5OP

[WQ9E]

Jim Jorgenson (SK) wrote up the conversion to 5894 tubes in ER September '97.  I have a Globe Champ 350 that was converted by him and it works FB.  The 5894 conversion is straightforward and cheap.

[n5op]

Yes, I've seen reference to that and everyone that's done it says it's FB. But, aren't the 5984s now almost as rare as the AX9909s?

Kim N5OP

[WD5JKO]

Do the 4D32 tubes take the same socket as the AX9909 tubes?

   Yes I believe they do. Also, so does the 8877!

   I agree with the 4D32 conversion. Just add a beefy 6.3v filament transformer.

Those Ax9909's run off 12v filaments. I once did a GC 350 conversion to a pair of 4-65's. The tubes worked very well. As I recall the same DC input/RF output ratio was maintained on all bands. The problem was that I put the filaments in series to use that 12v filament winding. This worked, but I had some 60 hz cathode modulation. Using a separate filament tranny at 6.3vct would have been better with the 4-65 filaments in parallel.

For modulation I changed the 809's out to 808's (added 7.5vct 8A fil tranny). Then I had to beef up the 6AQ5 audio driver.

One night I made the HV filter a pi type. This raised the B+ to about 1400v. Now this rig put out a very respectable ~300 watts, and modulation was excellent. Unfortunately that HV plate transformer got hot very fast.

Jim
WD5JKO

[n5op]

Thanks! I'll wager that an 8877 might be a bit much for the modulation transformer to handle. I bet the HV plate transformer *did* get hot when running that much power.

I just looked up the 5894s and they go for about $60 each and are fairly common, so I must have mis-typed the type earlier. Making plate caps shouldn't be too terribly difficult for the 5894s or the 4D32s, for that matter. The 4D32s are cheaper, at about $25 each.

If I recall, all of the LV stuff comes off of the same transformer. The AX9909 only needs about 2A, so even running two 4D32s in parallel (which would probably work since they're indirectly heated), would overload the old filament supply. So, yes I'd have to add a 6.3 VAC supply somewhere. Looks like about 4A per tube, so at least an 8A supply at 6.3VAC should do the trick. There should be room underneath the chassis, especially since my Dad removed the huge, ancient selenium rectifiers that used to be under there.

The AX9909 seems to be a truly oddball tube -- it must have been cheap surplus!
I need to set up the shack for this, but at least I now have it.

Kim N5OP

[WQ9E]

Kim,

Even on ebay you can buy the 5894 for under $60.  I picked up a couple of spares last year at a hamfest for $5 each NIB.  They were made in huge quantities and are far from rare.  Just keep an eye out for them during the summer fests instead of enriching one of the tube merchants at oil speculator prices

[n5op]

Ah! Thanks for the reality hit. I haven't been to a hamfest in too long; I should go more often. I usually go when I want something specific, and now I do! I figure that I should get four of 'em, because I probably won't be using the rig on a daily basis. However, will want at least one set of spares. The tube compliment in the rig isn't very demanding, so having spares on hand shouldn't be to terrible.

[KM1H]

1000V is pushing a 5894 but as Roger said they are cheap at hamfests as zillions of commercial 2way FM rigs used them. Motorola has their own number. A bigger version is the 7854.

I also prefer 4D32's and the sleeper 4D22 since they were pulse rated for the military and can handle voltage, just watch the screen dissipation when tuning.

Carl
KM1H

[The Slab Bacon]

1000V is pushing a 5894 but as Roger said they are cheap at hamfests as zillions of commercial away FM rigs used them. Motorola has their own number. A bigger version is the 7854.
Carl
KM1H

IIRC Motorola's tube is an 8643. It looks like a 5894 but is a little fatter around the middle,
has a 3rd fin on the plates, and the plate pins are a little fatter as well. They used to be expensive, but now that no one wants or uses Motracs any more, they are cheap as dirt.

They have a considerably higher dissapation rating than a 5894 and they have 12v filaments allready. I am planning to use 2 of them whenever I get around to re doing my Glob Chump.  However I have pondered the thought of possibly shoehorning in an 813.
Hmmmmm...............


the Slab Bacon