Recommend some cheap but good and LIGHT ( not BA ) bench test gear

[N3DRB The Derb]

The shack is in a total state of disaster as I transition the one bench to full time operating only and set the other one up for full time fixing only. I need some  somewhat modest test gear to align and keep the FT-101's going and the Gonsets going along with doing ordinary recapping and alignment. I have a 500 watt Termaline and a 80 watt Termaline, and should be able to procure a wattmeter to see how many bird watts I got shortly.

need a sig gen, a sweep gen for aligning if passbands/filters, hmmmm... What else? Are there any cheap service monitors out there I can afford?

Suggest away.

[WA1GFZ]

hp8640b clean sig gen
hp3325a or b sweeper

[KM1H]

hp8640b clean sig gen
hp3325a or b sweeper

Or a AN/USM-323 military version of the 8640B. Only goes to 256 mHz, doesnt have the counter option, and a few other minor differences. Its got even lower phase noise and is usually much cheaper than the civvie version. Either can be used to sweep IF's.  I have a loaded 8640B and a USM-323 that I added the full range audio oscillator.

HP 141T SA systems are cheap but not light.

Nothing GOOD is cheap and light. That stuff is mainly for AA5's and other entry level house radios.


Carl
KM1H

[WB2YGF]

hp8640b clean sig gen
hp3325a or b sweeper

$800 is cheap?  (In relative terms, I guess )

[N3DRB The Derb]

I'm talking lots cheaper than 800 bucks, guys. I'd LIKE to have a 800 buck piece of test gear - thats not going to happen. What about stuff like B&K? It's not the greatest, but I dont need that. What in the sub 50 pound class of gear one can find at festers that's fixable?

[N3DRB The Derb]

Also, I remember I used a Lampkin 107C back in the early 80's. I would bet these are in the almost junk category now?

[WA1QHQ]

Who said that stuff would cost $800, I bought an 8640B at the last Nearfest for $50 working with options 1 and 3, scope out the hamfests lots of good test equipment will be showing up with the economy tanking.

I agree the light weight stuff is not worth owning, buy HP for your RF stuff and Tektronix for scopes and you won't go wrong. The HP 8640B is probably the best sig gen out there on the used equipment market for frequencies below 500MHz.

HP makes some nice service monitors as well as a number of other reputable test equipment manufacturers. I have noticed alot of them showing up on the used market as the cellular industry upgrades their cell sites they often need to upgrade service monitors and will surplus out the old ones for a good price. A decent service monitor even used is probably going to cost more than you want to pay though.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Use your PC for an audio sig gen. Lots of SW out there to produce waveforms. Add an external box via USB and you can go into the RF range. Below is one example. I think I've seen less expensive and build your own versions.

http://www.virtins.com/

[KD6VXI]

I agree the light weight stuff is not worth owning, buy HP for your RF stuff and Tektronix for scopes and you won't go wrong. The HP 8640B is probably the best sig gen out there on the used equipment market for frequencies below 500MHz.

100 percent agreement.

In high school, a gentleman that lived in the apartments my mom managed told me that it was ALL about HP for Counters, Fluke for Metering, and Tech for scopes. 

I tended to listen to him, he was a calibration engineer, and those where the things that came calibrated the best, stayed in calibration, and he saw less than other things.

--Shane

[WB2YGF]

Who said that stuff would cost $800, I bought an 8640B at the last Nearfest for $50 working with options 1 and 3, scope out the hamfests lots of good test equipment will be showing up with the economy tanking.

Well, I was just picking some numbers off of ebay.  I only saw one 8640B for sale and it was $500. 

What are the chances of finding one at a flea market, working and calibrated for $50?

How many years of wandering around would it take?

If it turned out to be broken, how much would it cost to get it fixed and calibrated assuming one didn't have the equipment, documentation, and knowledge to do so?

[w8khk]

Well, I was just picking some numbers off off ebay.  I only saw one 8640B for sale and it was $500. 

What are the chances of finding one at a flea market, working and calabrated for $50?

How many years of wandering around would it take?

If it turned out to be broken, how much would it cost to get it fixed and calibrated assuming one didn't have the equipment, documentation, and knowlege to do so?

I would not take a chance on epay for an 8640.   Even if it were good, it would probably get trashed in shipment.

I have purchased three 8640Bs in the 300 to 400 dollar range from "The Scopeman", Robert Garcia, KD4JRT.  100 percent functional, look new, accurately calibrated.  I had one of the knobs break after over a year, and he replaced it free.  Also got a great Tek 2247 scope, lightweight, like new condition.  Robert can be reached at: esaronel at bellsouth dot net.

[N3DRB The Derb]

cant drive, dont have the ability to wander around festers endlessly. I'll look at whats been suggested and and try to make the best choice.

[W3SLK]

Derb, check the govt. surplus auctions. I bought my -141T with tracking generator for a little over $350. The tracking generator was purchased through a proxy who shipped it to me. At the time, it was pretty reasonable.

Here's the auction I've used: http://www.govliquidation.com/list/c7235


It doesn't cost anything to set an account and you can bid on stuff at bases nearby and save the shipping costs.

[WQ9E]

On my bench I have a couple of HP signal generators, analog and digital Tektronix scopes, HP counter, specialized bridges, etc.  Now lets move on to what I tend to use the most which is what Derb really needs.

A DMM is obvious and even the lower cost ones from China work pretty well.  I bought a couple of the Harbor Freight $39 units when they were on sale for $19 to use for tower work and to let friends borrow instead of my Simpson and Fluke meters.  It turns out I end up using the HF unit most of the time myself.  It is accurate, convenient, and if I drop a blob of solder on its LCD face I won't be too worried.  It is nice to also have an analog meter for alignment, the fake analog bars will work but they are not as convenient.  For this purpose even the cheapest analog VOM will be fine.

A decent general coverage receiver.  A Grundig YB-400 digital portable is one of the handiest troubleshooting and alignment tools I have.  When setting the HFO tracking on a receiver rather than tune my HP-8640B from freq to freq I just set the frequencies to listen for the HFO (dial with offset for 1'st IF) in the Grundig memories and save a lot of time and wear and tear on the 8640 tuning.  Once the oscillator tracking is good I use the 8640 to align the RF and mixer.

The receiver can also be used in place of a frequency counter in most instances.  Need to set an oscillator on frequency?  Set the Grundig receiver to a WWV frequency and make sure the BFO is accurately zero beat.  Then key in the desired frequency on the receiver and adjust the oscillator frequency.  It isn't as accurate as using my HP counter or the Tektronix counter in the scope but it is accurate enough for most amateur radio work, very fast, and doesn't require buying an extra counter.  And you don't have to hook directly to the circuit and you know quickly whether the oscillator is even working.

The receiver is also great for monitoring transmitters for frequency stability, hum, distortion, etc.  I have never done it but if you didn't have an audio frequency generator then tune in SSB mode to a carrier (from local broadcast or a calibrator signal) and then adjust the BFO for desired tone.  Plug an 8 to 500 ohm transformer into the headphone output and now you have an audio generator.

For a signal generator it is not very often that you really have to have a sweep generator and I very rarely use mine.  Having an accurately  calibrated generator with a calibrated output attenuator is nice but you don't have to have one.  An accurate receiver can provide the frequency readout and if you are trying to measure actual sensitivity you will generally have another known working rig for comparison. In any case, the calibrated output is only accurate when terminated in its design impedance so in most cases of amateur use it is still effectively just a variable attenuator with nice markings on it.

In a pinch, one of the old BC-221 frequency meters would provide you with a fairly small signal generator and you should be able to find one cheap or free in your area.

The test gear most of us have now far exceeds the capability of the test gear used to design our vintage gear and certainly exceeds that of the average service shop that serviced it back in the day.  High end gear is nice to have, fun to use, and makes some difficult trouble shooting easier but is far from necessary since you are not trying to do this as a profit generating business.

Of course adequate lighting and enough space are also key.

Rodger WQ9E

[W9GT]

A decent general coverage receiver.  A Grundig YB-400 digital portable is one of the handiest troubleshooting and alignment tools I have.  When setting the HFO tracking on a receiver rather than tune my HP-8640B from freq to freq I just set the frequencies to listen for the HFO (dial with offset for 1'st IF) in the Grundig memories and save a lot of time and wear and tear on the 8640 tuning.  Once the oscillator tracking is good I use the 8640 to align the RF and mixer.

Ah yes Rodger....the good old YB 400PE Yacht Boy.  I have had one for a few years and it is a great little portable receiver.  Radio Schlock had them on sale a while ago and my wife bought one for me.  Very sensitive, calibration seems pretty accurate and it has a real BFO.    Works well even in my vehicles without much antenna.  The only problem that I have is that I work in the same building as a telephone central office, along with a myriad of PCs that put out all kinds of hash.  Can't hear much but broadcast stations here.

73,  Jack, W9GT

[WQ9E]

Jack,

I have the same situation at work.  So much RF noise from computers in the building that the only choice is one local AM station, a few FM stations, or internet radio.  The little Grundig is the perfect size.  I bought its big brother, a Satellit 700, when I was teaching a summer course in Germany in the early 90's but it is kind of awkward as a portable and stays on a nightstand.

Using an external receiver to set the HFO is a great way to avoid accidentally aligning on the image instead of the desired frequency.  I have aligned several receivers (Hallicrafters in particular) that had the one or two bands aligned on the wrong side of the first oscillator and the calibration and tracking were not so good.

By the way, your signal is consistently strong on the Saturday morning AM net and is always easy copy.

Rodger WQ9E

[N3DRB The Derb]

thanks Rodger. Those are some good suggestions. I feel like a dead guy coming back to life. A lot of knowledge is being remembered slowly and in piecemeal fashion. The docs said my brain would be like swiss cheese for a long time and stuff would start filling in where the holes are

re the gen coverage receiver, JN lent me use of a 75A2 over a year and I used it a lot but it went tits up about 2 months ago. I'll prolly just fix that up. It gives me fond memories of my 32V2/75A2 combo I bought in 9.5 condition in 1982 for $100. 

[w3jn]

You can get good HP sig gens cheap.  I've gotten several 8640Bs for under $50, but flipped 'em.  Got a HP3330A (synthesized sig gen/sweeper 0-13 MHZ) at Timonium one year for $10.  It mates with the HP3571A 0-13 MHz spec an which I got on eBay for $25.  Needed a storage scope to complete it, a Tek 464(?), $50.

It's out there, just gotta be patient.

[WB2YGF]

I am sure there is lot's of stuff out there cheap.  Usually it is being sold by recyclers who have no idea what it does, or if it works, or if it has all the parts it needs to function.  I know I wouldn't have a clue either.  If one has worked in broadcasting or 2 way radio repair it's a different story.

IMHO, the guys that know what they are selling, and have tested it, aren't selling it for peanuts because they know what it's worth, and being able to guarantee that it works adds a lot of value.

Personally, I have bought a lot of duds even from guys that claim the stuff works.  Perhaps that's why I'm so cynical.  Sadly, I have been ripped off more at ham & computer fests than I ever have on eBay.

It's gotten to the point where I won't buy anything electronic at a hamfest unless I KNOW I can repair it, or it's so dirt cheap, I am willing to take the loss if it turns out to be dead.

That hp3325a looks sweet.  The eBay price for one with a guarantee and a new cal sticker is not too bad IMHO.  Maybe when the economy turns around....

I saw some nice Tec digital storage scopes really cheap.  Puts my 20 Mhz Protek to shame that I paid twice as much for new 10 yrs ago.

[Opcom]

Singer CSM-1 service monitors can be picked up for about $100. 50KHz to 512MHz. They don't do FM deviation, but will generate FM and are fine for AM. An antenna to WWV indicates on a zero-beat LED. It can sweep a full MHz to make radio alignment easier. I have one and use it from time to time. Not light, but cheap and good.

manual:
http://www.bunkerofdoom.com/lit/csm1/Singer_csm1.html

[WA1GFZ]

I paid $100 for my last 8640B. It took all of 1/2 an hour to find the power supply problem. Cleaned the connector mounted ears on it and in the test rack. This was a late model one from a mil surplus guy.
There are plenty of free audio programs out there using a sound card. I even found a two tone generator once.
The 3325A is not the cleanest but sure is nice for a quick and dirty 0 to 20 MHz sweeper......and would make one nice SBE source.

[W3SLK]

I'd be tickled to death to pick up an 8640. I always seemed to get sniped on the govt. circuit. I guess they are OK if you don't get one with a bad oscillator(?).

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

Yo, fellas. The 8640 is a great sig gen. But it does NOT fit Derb's requirement of LIGHT (not BA).

[WQ9E]

Another "stop gap" measure would be one of the MFJ antenna analyzers; there should be some used ones floating around.  They will provide you with a basic test signal for receiver testing and also provide a frequency counter and if you add other test gear later then you can use it for its original purpose.  One thing they do not do well is work as a dip meter; I won the dip coils for mine as a hamfest hourly prize at a small hamfest.  Suffice to say they will not be replacing my Measurements Model 59 and AN/PRM-10.

Rodger WQ9E

[KD6VXI]

Another "stop gap" measure would be one of the MFJ antenna analyzers; there should be some used ones floating around.  They will provide you with a basic test signal for receiver testing and also provide a frequency counter and if you add other test gear later then you can use it for its original purpose.  One thing they do not do well is work as a dip meter; I won the dip coils for mine as a hamfest hourly prize at a small hamfest.  Suffice to say they will not be replacing my Measurements Model 59 and AN/PRM-10.

Rodger WQ9E

Tom Rauch also claims that the dip meter attachment is complete and utter junk.

On another note, I picked up a "junker" meter from a mail order place.  It's damn accurate, has about everything you'd need in a 'throwaway' meter.

http://www.centralcomputers.com/commerce/ccp64100--digital-multimeter-vc99--3-75-auto-range-display-vc99-powvidmvc99r.htm

I have nothing to do with them, other than being a happy customer.  I've already popped a fuse, and upon taking it apart, found that EVERY scale is adjustable.  30.00 for a meter that tracks quite well isn't a bad idea.

Checking LARGE power supply caps take a couple seconds, but completely within the timeframe I'd expect.

--Shane