In deference to those who say CW is an intelligence filter...

[w3jn]

perusing the vanity call HQ site for invalid applications indicates some of the more bizzare callsign requests (CALLMAN, M0NTY, KW619), etc. were filed by tech class licensees.

However, there were plenty of extras that apparently don't understand the US callsign structure either.

My conclusion:  No connection between CW and ability to file a valid FCC application   

[k4kyv]

I was looking over a copy of the latest issue of WorldRadio (the monthly ham rag that comes printed on cheap newsprint, not RadioWorld, the broadcast rag).

The editorial on page 4 (March 2007), discusses the recent FCC decision to remove the Morse Code requirement.  It mentions that this made a feature story in New York Times, and snowballed into dozens of articles written in local newspapers, even  into Weekly Reader, the newspaper for elementary school children.

As a result, people began to search for more information on the internet.  One of the top websites that come up in the search engines for "Ham Radio" is e-ham.com (and QRZ.com).  Name-calling, insults and vulgarity by those with both pro- and anti- code viewpoints appear throughout the postings, along with horrible grammar usage and misspellings.  The editor points out that "hams" come off looking "illiterate, intolerant, gross and rude."

[W1ATR]

 I've been saying that about those two sites for years Don. The way they behave is an embarrassment to themselves and all amateurs in general. They act like a bunch of stoners exploding at each other over the slightest disagreement and the whole thing ramps up into a full-blown argument regardless of moderator intervention.

I have too much respect for myself to participate in a web site that hosts nothing more than a place for juvenile lids to vent off.

In searching the web, I'll come across cb forums that behave better than these guys do.

I feel amfone is the best amateur radio web site out there and I commend the site owner(s) and moderators that put in the time to make it the best on the net.

[K1MVP]

  

  Name-calling, insults and vulgarity by those with both pro- and anti- code viewpoints appear throughout the postings, along with horrible grammar usage and misspellings.  The editor points out that "hams" come off looking "illiterate, intolerant, gross and rude."

Heck,--all one has to do is tune the top end of the 75 meter band on any given day, or evening and many hams come off as looking "illiterate, gross and rude",--never mind the the internet postings.

                                       73, K1MVP

   

[N6WDR]

Here I was all worried that I wouln't fit in  .  This is a great fourm, wish thier were more like it  .

Richard

[Art]

I am amazed at the energy and anger associated with the elimination of CW as a testing requirement for licensing in the US. . .. .

how about testing for SSB capability? Surely the ability to put out a clean signal on SSB is important. The gang on 14.197 would be pleased to help you . . . no, wait they are out of favor . . .. How about AM. . . . anyone who cant put out a decent AM signal, (regardless of the vintage or origins of your transmitter) must be suspect. . . . or maybe PSK. . . if you can't put out a signal without splattering 2KC on either side what good are you. . . ..

Yes, I understand CW ops have enjoyed an exclusive segment of the amateur band for some time. . . . but that is unwarranted in a time when most emergency communications are conducted on phone or data and the acknowledged majority of amateur operators utilize phone. Wasn't emergency communications the ultimate rationale? . . geesh, get a clue, CW is a great mode and a venerable one. . .. but it is not the end all and be all of communications . . . welcome to the 20th century . . . (yes I know it is the 21st century. . . that was the point) It is a mode like any other mode and deserving of just as much regulatory protection as any other. . . and just as little . . .

Are we so shallow that we can only accept *our* enjoyments for the utilization of others?
Or, have we reached a time when we as individuals don't try to control others in proportion to our wishes? Have we reached a time when it doesn't matter whether you use AM or SSB or CW or M64QPSK. . . it's all amateur radio and we are all brothers and sisters . . maybe I have transcended from the sublime to the ridiculous. . .maybe I have always been there. . . whatever. . . CW is just another mode. .  you might even find me on CW QRP every once in a while. . . . so what. .. it doesn't make me any better or worse than the op who wants to run only AM on 160 . . .  it just ain't that important .

What would we ever do if something really serious came along. . . . .  fall apart in a mass of willowing wusses or stand up ready to render aid to your community and country in a communications emergency? Would you be able to take your station on the road or provide your community with emergency fixed station communications? Would it matter then whether you used CW or SSB or AM or even (gasp) data?

-ap

[W3SLK]

I guess I'm going to weigh in here with my opinion. I think those that view the CW requirement as a so called filter, feel some what sleighted. "Why should they get what I got when I worked hard to learn the code and they didn't," sort of arguement. But to think that the code would filter "lidz & kidz" is looking at it through rose colored glasses. It has been stated earlier in this very thread that jamming and profane operation has been going on for years. The code certainly didn't prevent that. I think we need to elmer the newcomers (like some on this board), so that they don't fall prey to "the dark side of the force".

[K1MVP]

I guess I'm going to weigh in here with my opinion. I think those that view the CW requirement as a so called filter, feel some what sleighted. "Why should they get what I got when I worked hard to learn the code and they didn't," sort of arguement. But to think that the code would filter "lidz & kidz" is looking at it through rose colored glasses. It has been stated earlier in this very thread that jamming and profane operation has been going on for years. The code certainly didn't prevent that. I think we need to elmer the newcomers (like some on this board), so that they don't fall prey to "the dark side of the force".

Mike,
I don`t think its a matter of CW/ versus Phone, as it is a matter of what
many see as a continuing "lowering of standards" in ham radio.
Some of us wonder,--whats next, elimination or watering down the
written exam even more?
The answers are published where anyone can pass by "answer recognition"
and what does it prove in the long run?
 
I personally do not have a problem with the elimination of cw, as a
testing requirement, BUT why not maintain or "up the bar" by beefing
up the written exam as they did in Great Britain when they eliminated cw.

So I would say that many of us DO NOT see a bright future for HR
with this continuous "watering down" of the standards, of what little
are left.

                                    73, K1MVP

   
   

[W1UJR]

Its only a few days away....

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

The requirements for amateur radio have been continuously 'watered down' since the 1920's. The most recent is nothing new. How long can the nay sayers cry the sky is falling and be taken seriously?

Like Art said, get over it and enjoy the hobby without decrying other's enjoyment. And like Mike said, elmer. There's no better way to sour someone on amateur radio than the have a sour, P&M attitude yourself.

I just don't get this kind of behavior.

[N3DRB The Derb]

I guess the drunken 160 meter fone "parties" referred to in QST n other pubs of the day in he 1930's were better? One of he first phone ops I ever heard with my radio shack astronaut 4 portable in he 70's was drunk out of his mind and telling everyone to go F themselves. Also talking about his wifes favorite sex positions. I was bout 11 at he time I guess. 20 wpm extra, of course.

Since I've advocated a totally code free license since 1982, it gives me special satisfaction to see this day come about. Glad I got to see it.

[KI4OWV]

I am a future am'er. What I hear on 75 mtr's SSB is  a total joke. ANYONE who thinks CW will insulate the ham bands from the LIDS ain't turned their reciever on lately. How do you say that--HI  HdwI or or something like that ...... 

[k4kyv]

How long can the nay sayers cry the sky is falling and be taken seriously?

You mean like the way the sky fell on CW when the 75m phone band was expanded to 3600?

[N3DRB The Derb]

HI  HdwI or or something like that ......

no , make sure that when you find something funny, you laugh like a normal person does. Don't ever say " HI HI " or any of that other converted CW nonsense. Marks you as a total boob, size 38 DD. Mouth's are for rappin, CW is for CW. Since you cant laugh on CW, it's fine there.

Would you ever tell a joke and think if everyone loudly exclaimed HI HI back to you they were normal? Of course not, you'd think they were brain damaged like me. HI HI.

[WB2RJR]

This year my Alma Mater, University of Colorado at Boulder, requires all incoming freshman in the College of Applied Science and Engineering to have taken 3 years of a foriegn language.

What does this have to do with CE, EE, ME, computer science, applied math or physics?

The University I wish to attend to get my PhD in Geology requires that I speak one foriegn language fluently or be able to read two. A test is given to check this.

Let me go into CW test whiner mode......"What does this have to do with knowing Geology?" (substitute electronics, operating SSB or whatever in there for geology).

Maybe someone knows something you don't. Like having to learn something you are not good at or is different makes you a better thinker, or scientist, or engineer.

At any rate I figure I'll get further ahead sooner doing what's required than bitching about it. ( Why isn't anyone bitching to have the PE, bar exam and medical boards moved to a published Q&A exam? And why require a degree first? Many hams tell me it makes no difference so lets do it for everyone. Wouldn't you like to be a PE, lawyer or doctor in a month?)

Most people haven't a clue on how much has been lost to Amateur Radio with the elimination of CW testing.

Let the flames begin.

Marty WB2RJR

[W1UJR]

Those Who Can, Do.

Those Who Can't Teach.

Those Who Can't Teach, Bitch. 

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

I don't think anyone is saying learning another language won't help you think better. In an educational environment, this makes sense. The amateur radio test is not an educational environment. You're point is a red herring Marty. Comparing a BS degree, in any field, to a ham radio license is absurd. The two are not comparable. To use your line of thinking, let's make everyone taking their driver's license test, show competency in a foreign language. After all, it may make them a better driver.

When foreign language competency is on the PE test, then maybe you will have a point. Even then, comparing the PE exam and the amateur exam is pretty lame.

I ask once again, How long can the nay sayers cry the sky is falling and be taken seriously? We've been hearing this stuff since the 1920's. The naysayers' accuracy is far worse than the weather man. Give it a rest.

[k4kyv]

This year my Alma Mater, University of Colorado at Boulder, requires all incoming freshman in the College of Applied Science and Engineering to have taken 3 years of a foriegn language.

What does this have to do with CE, EE, ME, computer science, applied math or physics?

Besides the advantage of being able to use a foreign language in today's global world, it requires a great deal of  self-discipline and self-application to become proficient in a second (or third) language.  That is something absolutely relevant to studies of such subjects as mathematics and physics.  The high school foreign language requirement weeds out many of the wannabes who don't have what it takes to pursue university studies.  On the other hand, a record of high achievement in a foreign language course is something looked most kindly upon by the admissions dep't of a university.

This is very similar to one of the arguments for retaining the code requirement in amateur radio.

The navy requires some practical study of rigging sailing ships as part of officer training.  That is the primary reason for the government-owned "tall ships" from nations round the world, that are periodically paraded on display.  Why do navies of the world spend the money for those ships, since sailing vessels are no longer used for combat today?

But it is very difficult to become fluent in a foreign language merely from studying it at school, unless you are in a program of total immersion.

The least painful way to become fluent is to first study the language 2-3 years at school, and then go live in a country where the  language is spoken for at least one year.  It matters little whether or not you study, work, or just hang out and live around the locals, where you are using the language all day every day.

In many of the European countries, university is part of public education, and tuition is much less expensive than at American universities.  Many universities offer language courses specially designed for foreigners who want to learn the language.

Likewise, passing the FCC code test in order to obtain a licence does not make the person a telegrapher.  Hours of time spent working CW is what accomplishes that.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

This is very similar to one of the arguments for retaining the code requirement in amateur radio.

Unfortunately, it's a weak and ineffective argument. Running a marathon requires a great deal of  self-discipline and self-application. Let's add that to the amateur radio license test. It would be a far more effective filter than Morse code.

[Ed KB1HVS]

Can you say www.qrz.com ?  From this local,Folks are not falling over themselves to become ham radio operators. The ones who are motivated because of the rule change and get licensed better be treated nice or they will just ........go away....................

[W2VW]

All hams should be able to bench press 1.5 times their body weight and run 5 miles in under 45 minutes. This would filter out most of the wise guys.

[The Slab Bacon]

I still think that driving a clutch and changing a flat tire should be part of the drivers lisence test!! But everyone else says I'm nuts. And furthermore it should also require you to speak English!!

But its a done deal now. STOP WHINING AND MOVE ON!! If you are that mad about it just find another hobby. "Dont go away mad, just go away!!" Its over and done, see where it leads BEFORE you keep bitching and whining about it.

As we all are getting older and dying off we need some new blood to carry the AM torch. Maybe we should try befriending some of the new lisencees instead of slamming them. After all the Elmer has a lot of influence on the new guys!!

                                               The Slab Bacon

[N8LGU]

    Amen, Frank. Since it's not a requirement for the license anymore, I doubt that many will ever learn it. I suppose it will become a badge of honour for the old timers. Some liken it to the AM mode: a bunch of old farts who use ancient equipment. Maybe so... However, I think there's more to it than that. Many AM'er's like to experiment, design, and build transmitters and receivers. I don't think there is much of that with the CW ops anymore. Many use keyboards and computers to send and recv CW. I finally gave up on CW when I could'nt get anyone to answer my "bug" because their computer could'nt copy it. If one enjoys CW, then by all means, do CW! There's no need to cry and whine about it. And yes, probably the most important thing is to welcome the no-coders and elmer them. After all, it's not THEIR fault we no longer test for CW.

[W3SLK]

Rock Cave Dave said:

Many use keyboards and computers to send and recv CW. I finally gave up on CW when I could'nt get anyone to answer my "bug" because their computer could'nt copy it.

Hell I gave up on CW because many of the ops could never seem to get their keyboards 'weighed' correctly. All their dits and dahs seemed to run together and it made copying murder. So I play with my AM radios.

[k4kyv]

I work a little CW around 3845-50, using a 78 years old bug.  Run into a lot of bug operators in that part of the band.

But very few CW ops run homebrew or vintage equipment.  Mostly riceboxes, although many say they run them on CW only and never operate SSB.

I don't know if the code readers can copy my sending with the bug or not, but if not, no great loss.  What's the point of working CW with a keyboard and code reader?  RTTY  (Baudot or ASCII) or PSK do a much better job.