WHETHER TO LEAVE TUBE GEAR "ON" (survey and comments)

[W2JBL]

i used to  leave some stuff on 24/7 until one day when i came home to a smoke filled house and FLAMING Ranger. never again after that. when i 'm done for the night everything is off and amtemmas are grounded. i do leave my R390A's on 24hrs if i am home at the time though. even the ones where i haven't replaced those " 7 deadly" caps, and i run them at the "dangerously high" line voltage of 126 volts i get here, sometimes in the standby mode too. only thing that dies is the ballast tube, so i don't use them any more, but have a solid state regulator in their place. i also leave the  ovens on and generate "excessivly high temperatures that destroy the PTO and crystal pack".  about once a year i get a weak tube in the PTO or puke a 6DC6 if i forget to ground an antenna and transmit into one from the other operator position. Paul- i would say from my experience leave it  (R390) on and don't worry about the elitest collector paranoia that's out there. these things were made to go 24/7 unattended.

[WU2D]

I always turn everything off when not in use, Tube or Solid State. I even shut down my computer when not in use.

Mike

[k4kyv]

I don't know if it's still the case, Don, but several years ago I read that the thing that kills HD's is the warm up and cool down process. A few guys mentioned that they have left them running for years with no problem.   Your idea about putting them to sleep may be the thing to do today, dunno. But, I'll bet if the computer could stay warm inside it would have less stress on the PCB and parts too. Expansion and contraction causes intermitants, etc.

I let my computer sweat it out 24/7.

Maybe someone else knows the real deal.

I  read somewhere that laptops should be powered down overnight, even when running off the  a.c. power supply, because the miniature HDD's aren't designed for 24/7 use. 

I think this continues to be a longtime ongoing debate amongst the "experts," with no difinite conclusion reached.

I received a new Maxtor external USB HDD for Xmas, and use it for data backup.  It stays turned off except when I actually do a backup.  I haven't yet installed the automated backup software that came with the unit.  I only installed the driver software, and to do a backup I manually drag and drop a copy of My Documents, Bookmarks and e-mail archives.  I have been doing a backup about once a week, and the unit stays turned off when not in use.  I have heard some reports that those things are extremely reliable, while others have said theirs crapped out after about 6 months.  So far mine works great, and it seems to be just as fast as the internal HDD in the computer.

The Collins-type PTO in my T-368 master oscillator that I use as a VFO unit has been running 24/7 for almost 20 years now.  I only power it down when I leave the house for an extended period, when heavy t-storm activity is anticipated, or when I have had to work on the unit.  No warm-up drift at startup or at the beginning of transmissions.  I have had to replace maybe 3 or 4 6BA6's in all those years.

[W5SUM]

Now this has been a GREAT topic!  Generally, I will turn on my boatanchors early early saturday morning and they will typicaly be left on until sunday evenings. The one exception is my NC183D which after about 2 hours of use begins to have 'oohhh oohhh that smell". I need to find out what that is.

I too have experienced a melt down, it was, believe it or not, a Drake 2NT some years ago. Lost a HV Electrolytic and fried the power tranny.

I guess I should discontinue my practice, as it is possibly dangerous to the rigs, plue its not very energy efficient. I appreciate all the posts, it has been good reading.

W5SUM

[WU2D]

I turn everything off, especially computers, when not in use.

[David, K3TUE]

With increases in cost for power consumption going around, the question seems essentially, is the added cost of keeping things on worth more than the cost to replace components that fail prematurely after long term occasional shocks of power on and power off.

Remember, that the power for the idle device is not the only power used.  The addition heat generated necessitates more energy consumption in the summer to beat the exrtra radant heat with fans or A/C, but could save energy enpense it in the winter.  Of course, this is a small amount, but can be not insignificant depending on what you are leaving on.

And there is the issue of the added risk of failures while you are asleep or away increasing your risk of catastrophic loss due to smoke and fire.  And add to that the potential to loose irreplacable items, including life.  I attempt to mitigate this with a smoke/fire detector tied to my ADT.

I tend to leave only the things on that need to be left on (Tivo, for example, does not work if you do not leave it on).  I try to use compact flourescent bulbs.  It have sunrise/sunset/dst compensating timers on my front and back porch lights.  My wife has made me better at turning off lights when I leave a room, and using less light when I need it (dimmers or progressive bulb/filaments in most every room).  I guess this end part is a disclaimer that my concerns to be "green", cautious, and cheap may not be your same concerns.

[k4kyv]

This time of year I turn everything off, disconnect and ground the antennas and disconnect the internet cable.  The rural power lines that serve this area have always been extremely vulnerable to lightning, much more so than the electrical service in town.  My old computer got hit twice in less than a year, but at work we leave all the computers on during every workday regardless of weathter, and although the network has crashed during lightning storms I have never heard of any of the individual computers getting damaged.  A couple of years ago, even with the antenna disconnected, the 0-10 rf ammeter in my feedline was converted to carbon during a close by lightning hit, and I found a couple of the light switches in the house, and some of the swicthes on equipment welded open or closed.

It has been debated whether it causes  more wear and tear on a hard drive to turn it on and off, or to leave it running 24/7, but I don't risk having mine demolished by a blast from the sky.  I often put the computer in "hibernate" mode instead of simply shutting down, which seems to shorten the shutdown and booting up time.

[W2JBL]

stuff i deal with at work with hard drives stays on with no sleep mode 24/7, and i have little or no problems. but old radios? having once returned home from a quickie beer run during a 75 meter beer brawl to a FLAMING Johnson Ranger i now make sure everything is off and the AC mains to the shack shut off by a "big switch" when i leave the house. i don't trust my boatanchors any farther than i can throw them.

[flintstone mop]

Hello

The old commercial gear like Rangers and Valiants weren't made for 24/7. My R390A is on 24/7 and downtime was for a bad coil in the RF. Maybe me transmitting into the radio..........and I replaced the B+ caps on the audio module. The radio went about 6 years without a glitch. I DO turn eveything off during thunderstorms or if I'm leaving the house and there's a threat, and over night for thunder threats.
Fred

[G8DLH]

Hi everyone!
This is my first Post to this Forum as a new member in the UK. 

I've had this discussion many times with all sorts of people. 40+ years with electronics has taught me that the biggest killer of all electronics equipment is in 3 categories: voltage transients, current surges and heat. Especially heat. My approach is to fit internal fans wherever I can - preferably low noise ones! Plus, fit air filters, especially if the kit is in a dusty atmosphere and provide adequate ventilation - to get cold air in and hot air out.

If I'm working with power semi-conductors, I use the simple rule of thumb that if the heat-sink is too hot to touch, it ain't big enough! I've been amazed at the inadequate heat-sinking that I've found on many commercial products of all types.

As regards valves, a UK study in the late '60's showed that fitting black screening cans - as opposed to plain aluminium cans - made a significant reduction in bulb temperature - providing that there was good thermal contact between envelope and can.

On all technologies, component location is also an important issue. Again, in commercial kit, too many examples of electrolytic caps. next door to power resistors & heat-sinks! I have many examples of vintage valve kit. I always make a point of re-locating big, hot power resistors above the chassis (where possible).

As regards spikes / surges, the usual remedies help: transient suppressors, thermistors, current-limiting resistors, etc.

My experience is that these measures make for greater reliability than the issue of whether to switch off or not.

Regards to all,

Al / G8DLH

[Roy K8VWX]

           I turn everything off if nothing else I do it for fire hazard reasons. You never know when an old power/filament transformer may smoke or catch on fire.

            I use on my 390As and 75A4s a Mouser # 527-CL80 thermistor right in the AC lead to soft start them. You can hear the delay when you turn on the 390A. The resistance @ 3 Amps cold is 47 ohms and drops I think to less than 1 ohm when hot. Make sure you leave enough room around the 527-CL80 because they do get hot.

[WA3VJB]

Hello Al to you there across the Pond.
Iin the spirit of their greeting everyone at the door, I'd like to welcome you and hope we hear more from you in the time ahead.

Station pictures?

Are you in on the new european AM group? 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eamarg/

Would enjoy their take on leaving their gear on, especially if your utility bills are higher and your line voltage stability any ower than what I see at my place...

[flintstone mop]

Hello all,
I don't think there would be any problem with military gear and computers but the consumer gear from the 50's and 60's NO.
Fred

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

They can leave the equipment on in Europe. It's cooler there.

[G8DLH]

Hello Al to you there across the Pond.
Iin the spirit of their greeting everyone at the door, I'd like to welcome you and hope we hear more from you in the time ahead.

Station pictures?

Are you in on the new european AM group? 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eamarg/

Would enjoy their take on leaving their gear on, especially if your utility bills are higher and your line voltage stability any ower than what I see at my place...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks for the welcome!

At present, I'm a "dormant" Radio Amateur, but do a lot of listening.
I started as a keen SWL as a kiddie. Since the early '60's I've held an Amateur Radio Licence. In those days, you could get an AmRad Licence without a Morse Test, but you were limited to 144 MHz and up. (Hence the G8 prefix). It was great fun in those days: AM, tuning for a return call & lots of home-brew. I suppose the lack of access to the HF bands eventually caused my interest to wane, but since the UK AmRad Licencing Regs. have changed, I can now go full wack on HF - so I'm thinking of starting all over again.

Regret no pics. at present.   One day, one day . .. .

Line voltage. It's always been my belief that here in the UK we enjoy much better stability of line voltage that you do over there. Having said that, where I live, "out in the sticks" (as we say), it does go up and down a bit. It's nominally 230v - but can dip to as low as 210v, especially in the winter. Much lower than that and wallop! Someone throws a big switch somewhere! And then it's candle time!

I've been employed in electronics all my working life, in every technology and type of work.

Amongst the kit I own / use are a few Eddystaone receivers and a Racal RA-17, although over the years I've owned lots of receivers, especially ex-WWII ones. Lots of test gear - some HB. I read the Thread elsewhere on the RCA AR88. Owned one once for 2 months. Just out of curiosity. In today's bands, IMHO, 'fraid it's not up to the job.

Leaving kit on . . . in addition to my earlier comment, in my case, my kit is mainly valved and lives in a (damp / cold in the winter) garage. In the winter, I tend to leave it on. Drives out the damp. Damp, heat and dust: the death recipe for any piece of electronics kit.

I could waffle on, but I'll stop there.   Nuff said.   Must get to bed.   It's 1 a.m.

I look forward to contributing to the AM Forum.

Al.

[G8DLH]

Hello all,
I don't think there would be any problem with military gear and computers but the consumer gear from the 50's and 60's NO.
Fred

[Rob K2CU]

This has been very interesting reading!  I have been designing electronic equipment for over 35 years in both the military as well as the consumer electronic worlds.  In the military, there are MTBF )mean time between failures) callculations that you have to perform on all new equipment. Sure, it is a bit of a game, but there are some simple rules about how things affect predicted life of components. The high life rates of military gear come from very conservative designs. Just figure half the rated volltage on caps, any type. half rated power in resistors. half the rated power in just about anything. No, it is not a hard and fast rule, but a target.  And, half the current in connectors, relay contacts, etc. it goes on and on. You usually have to get dispensation to go over the magic limit.

And my friend Max had this to offer:

Whether you run you r gear for 24/7 or one hour, get the heat out. small computer fans are cheap, run on 12 VDC and can reduce the temp by easily 10 degrees or more. I have a left over indoor/outdoor thermometer...you know, the ones with the probe on  the end of a six ft lead...well, I use that to check temperatures inside my old tube rigs. Then, when I figure the place to position the fan, even if only sitting on top of ventilation holes, with rubber feet, I can see how much , if at all, the temperature goes down. And, I always suck hot air out, the way the convestion intended.

As to the tubes themselves, these things were perfected over decades to operate in consumer appliances that were turned on and off several times a day. Many have controlled heat up times and some have fast heat up times for nearly instant on operation of the radio, etc. Only the transmitting tubes may be an issue. You often find "ruggedized" versions, like the 6146W that were intended for mobile applications. Many of the big bulbs were used in broadcast stations and were on for over 12 hours a day.

He likes the idea of the soft start using a variistor.  But, I think I would build up an external box with individual outlets for each radio, with a varistor on each outlet. That way the extra heat would be kept out of the radio you are trying to save.

And, if you replace those vacuum tube rectifiers with solid state devices, be sure to add a series power resistor to limit the charging current in the caps. also check the new volatge you get with them. Many have 50 to 80 volts of series voltage drop compared to 0.7 V for a solid state diode.

Final thought...there is no rig worth losing your house over.

[w1guh]

To me, the computer hard drive is a mechanical device with moving parts and therefore subject to physical wear and a finite lifespan, so it should last longer if it is not running for hours or days when not in use.  I have the power usage controls set to automatically go into standby after two hours unattended.
That's not something I see discussed very much in computer circles, whether it is best to leave the HD running all the time, or to shut it off when it is not anticipated to be in use for an extended period.

I don't know if it's still the case, Don, but several years ago I read that the thing that kills HD's is the warm up and cool down process. A few guys mentioned that they have left them running for years with no problem.   Your idea about putting them to sleep may be the thing to do today, dunno. But, I'll bet if the computer could stay warm inside it would have less stress on the PCB and parts too. Expansion and contraction causes intermitants, etc.

I let my computer sweat it out 24/7.

Maybe someone else knows the real deal..

T

Most of the computers here at work are always on, hardly anyone turns them off at night.  Been like this for years with no disk crashes or failures.  The things that seem to go south most frequently are the PC poser supplies.

Same with the external hard drives on the Suns in a previous job.  Always on...no problems.