Unlimited Call Digital Broadband Phone - VOX? Poor Quality?

[K1JJ]

Hola,

I'm looking into getting an inexpensive, unlimited phone calling plan.

My current phone uses regular phone lines and Comcast wants $60/mo for unlimted use. The quality is good and is full duplex.

I called Vonage and they have unlimited calling "digital phone" for $24.95 through the broadband cable system.  While talking to the rep I noticed we were on frickin VOX and the quality sounded like a cell phone.

Is this the way these inexpensive digital systems are?  I axed her about this simplex thing and she had no clue. I told her to sock a yallo for 5 seconds and I would try to interupt her. I could not. I hope that was not a sample of what I was buying.

I definately want duplex with decent quality. Have others found this to be the case, or is this just an exception?

I also had the line go out as I was talking with her. I wonder if the internet is still an unreliable media for phone calls, delay, robotic voice, VOX....  [sigh]  It appears worth paying a little more for REAL phone lines.

T

[kc2ifr]

Tom,
U will get what u pay for........simple as that....

[Jim, W5JO]

As I understand, Vonage is VOIP.  You know how that is you can tell from downloads.  Sometimes you will get congestion on the line in places far away from your ISP.  Nothing can be done.  Quality will sometimes suffer  from packet jitter.

[n2bc]

I have phone service through Time-Warner Roadrunner.  I can certainly tell the difference - it's better!   The PC (Phone Company) has worked for 6 years to fix an intermittent on my 8 miles of wire back to the local office.  I had to live with 'fix' after 'fix' supposedly because there are no spares left in the last couple miles of the cable run.  The problem ranged from intermittent crackles to 3 day total outages. 

I switched to Time-Warner out of frustration.  I'm saving at least $30/month, the wife is using the phone like crazy, and the quality is just fine.   It's the same technology as Vonnage (VOIP) but my access back to Time-Warner's hub is via cable.  Don't know if DSL would have any effect on quality.

911 service is important.  But... the thing that held me off of switching was that my cable service and phone both go away if there is a power outage.  After the last 3 day wired phone outage I was much less sensitive to that concern. 

Good luck!

73, Bill  N2BC

[Blaine N1GTU]

Tom,
I have vonage here and have no complaints.
I suppose if your internet goes down so does your phone, but who cares...less people can bother me that way.
plus as the bandwith gets faster, data compression gets better and the infrastructure grows it will all just get better and better. (hopefully)

[K1JJ]

Thanks for the replies.  Maybe I'll give it a trial.

But how about the VOX effect?  It appears to be a one-way conversation with one person talking until he stops... no way to break in like a normal duplex line.  Is this true with Vonage and all of these digital cable lines?  I can hear the other person's background noise come on and off whenever I utter a word.

T

[wa2zdy]

We tried phone service through Optimum Online via Cablevision.  The cable TV and the internet service is extremely reliable so we gave the phone a try.

The call quality was excellent.  I never ran into a problem with packet loss/jitter at all.  And I never noticed the vox effect you describe.  What we found though was call handling problems, probably on the part of the local cable provider. 

It usually took two tries to get an outgoing call to connect and incoming calls sometimes rang in, sometimes went to the voice mail and sometimes just vanished, as did messages we know were left for us.  And then I found out about the E911 problems, that apparently are still not entirely fixed.  Fortunately we never needed 911 during our experiment.

I don't know how long we tried it but I know it was less than six months as my wife and I got our old phone number back when we went back to Verizon with our tails between our legs.

Good luck but don't cancel your regular service until you've really given the VoIP a good shakedown.

[WA1GFZ]

Tom,
I hear you can get this license that allows you to talk all over the world for free.
I think it is called ham radio..........but it can become a disease sonny

[Jim, W5JO]

Tom:  Try this link to get an idea.

http://speedtest.vonage.com/index.html

[K1JJ]

Thanks, Jim -

Here's the results of the test.

The download is fast, but the upload is slow in comparison. The delay is about 1/2 second.  The quality is 15% ? 

So, what does this mean for voice telephone vs: digital for quality?

[click on the tiny, "Test.jpg" icon below for a big picture]

T

[w1guh]

OTOH, if you've got a cell anyway...why even have a land line?  Got rid of mine two years ago and the lack of junk phone calls and having one fewer phone bills to pay is worth the (slight) inconvenience.

[W9AD]

Tom,
Skype's "Skype-out" service sounds great. The only cost is pay per minute but it's pretty cheap. You can get a "Skype-in" telephone number anyone can call for a few $/mo. They now have all sorts of equiptment available to connect to regular phones.

[W1RKW]

My brother did the same thing.  He dropped his landline service all together and just uses a cellphone. No BS phone calls. 

I considered doing the same before getting DSL but I'm in a weak cell and cell service is spotty in most of the house and yard.  I get a good signal in one spot in the house, top floor on the west side of the house.  If the house went up in flames my luck the fire would be where the good signal is.  So the landline is staying and definitely staying since I run DSL.  If it weren't for the DSL and spotty cell phone service I'd drop the landline. 

As far as digital phone service goes I don't know much about it but if the quality is similar to digital cell phone why not just go with the cell phone only? Unless you're in a weak cell like me.   And with a cell phone you should have reliable 911 service.

I will admit, I do like full duplex over twisted pair, no noticeable delay, no cutouts, jitter and any other maladies.

[KA1ZGC]

My brother did the same thing.  He dropped his landline service all together and just uses a cellphone. No BS phone calls. 

Ditto here. I've lived in my Salem apartment for 7 years, and never once had a landline. Not the best cell coverage in the world, but good enough to get the calls in and out.

As far as digital phone service goes I don't know much about it but if the quality is similar to digital cell phone why not just go with the cell phone only? Unless you're in a weak cell like me.   And with a cell phone you should have reliable 911 service.

Ah, but honolable Tom Vu have tower farm that give any cell company major wood!

I'd be willing to bet that you could get a cell carrier as a tenant, let them hang a few panel ants at 100 feet somewhere and more than make your cellphone costs back in tower rent. I'd bet you could sponge between $750 and $1000 per month in such a venture.

Good cell service, decent 911 response, and they pay you! Yes, you too can MAKE MONEY AT HOME following our simple, twelve-step program! 

How could honolable Tom Vu pass up such luclative cash making oppoltunity?

--Thom
Kilowatt Amplifier One Zero Grid Current

[K1JJ]

Hi Thom,

Back in '98 when I put up the 190'ers, I checked into cell site rentals. I was warned by many of the noise generated. The potential accounts I talked with could not guarantee a clean spectrum for ham radio.   In addition, I am one mile from the major highway, route 2. They are looking only for sites that are along this highway. Being out in the sticks is no where's land for cell use.

Anyway, I've checked into a number of VOIP phone services. Many do not have coverage out here, even though I have cable. But a few do.

I talked with a guy today about the duplex/simplex problem. His VOIP was duplex and sounded normal. It was also $24.95/mo, but not in my area. In contrast, a few still have the VOX problem. He said that it was a matter of a cheaper system, cutting corners and/or not enough bandwidth, thus the simplex.  So it appears we need to check out what we are getting before signing up.

Actually, this system is intended for business outbound, so I need good quality. I also wondered about power outages where the regular phone still works and also what would happen if I am trading and the broadband goes down. I would lose web access AND my back up phone system to liquidate positions. So, it seems that a cell phone back up is mandatory for fail-safe operation.  I've never owned a cell phone and think it will be kinda neat to walk around with that "pimp my ride" attitude, caw mawn.

I plan to try a VOIP plan that is in the area. I'll post what happens...

Later -

T

[W1RKW]

So, it seems that a cell phone back up is mandatory for fail-safe operation.  I've never owned a cell phone and think it will be kinda neat to walk around with that "pimp my ride" attitude, caw mawn.


T

Tom, I have to hand it to you for not having a cell phone.  I wish I stuck out not owning a cell phone for as long as you have.  My life would be much less.... Well put it this way, nuts.

[K1JJ]

Bob,
I've always wanted a cell phone, but was too cheap to get one.  But now I'm gonna do it.

BTW, I just signed up for SunRocket, a VOIP provider. They offer unlimited for $24.95/mo, or $199/year.   They give you the adapter for free as well as a wireless phone... :-)

I did a "Yallo" interupt test with the agent and it was duplex. It is available in the area, so done deal.

http://www.sunrocket.com/support/section/

I should be rolling in a few days on VOIP.

Thanks for the suggestions, guys.

Later-

T

[W1RKW]

Tom,
if you consider a cell phone either go with Verizon or Cingular.  If I were you I'd probably would opt for Verizon as I just recently switched from Cingular.  I found overall their coverage between Groton and Colchester to be better than Cingular especially going up Rt 11.  But you'll have to research that.  At home I was hoping Verizon would be a big improvement over Cingular but I discovered only a slight improvement at the residence signal strength wise.   But overall traveling wise Verizon seems to be better than Cingular and the price is the same.  And of course if you talk to anyone with a Verizon account your calls are free whether they are in state or on the west coast.  I don't believe Cingular has that option.

[Jim, W5JO]

Thanks, Jim -

Here's the results of the test.

The download is fast, but the upload is slow in comparison. The delay is about 1/2 second.  The quality is 15% ? 

So, what does this mean for voice telephone vs: digital for quality?


T

Tom you might check those speeds several times to see if it drops below these speeds.  Usually below 265 Kbps you will experience jitter and ocassional drop outs for voice.  If the average remains this high, you will do ok.  Look into their billing practices, contracts and customer service.  You know what to expect from most long time providers.  Even though read their contracts as well. 

Your speed looks good on that test.

&

[w1guh]

One side benefit of a cell phone...

You NEVER, well, hardly ever, have to search out a pay phone.  The niceness, in a disabled motor vehicle situation, of calling from the car is, as the saying goes...priceless.  (Just make sure you've got a good charge or a charger in the car.)

That alone, to me, makes a cell (even the cheapest plan from a reliable provider) mandatory.  It's been a godsend a few times.

Paul

[W1RKW]

T,
This afternoon I just received a flyer in the mail for SunRocket.  Looks interesting...
Bob

Bob,
I've always wanted a cell phone, but was too cheap to get one.  But now I'm gonna do it.

BTW, I just signed up for SunRocket, a VOIP provider. They offer unlimited for $24.95/mo, or $199/year.   They give you the adapter for free as well as a wireless phone... :-)

I did a "Yallo" interupt test with the agent and it was duplex. It is available in the area, so done deal.

http://www.sunrocket.com/support/section/

I should be rolling in a few days on VOIP.

Thanks for the suggestions, guys.

Later-

T

[John Holotko]

Some VOIP works great provided your ISP doesn't block VOIP ports. Most ISP's don't but I have heard of a few cases where it's been done...the result ?? Stuff like Vonage, Skype, etc. just stopped working as in here today...gone tomorrow.

[K1JJ]

Some VOIP works great provided your ISP doesn't block VOIP ports. Most ISP's don't but I have heard of a few cases where it's been done...the result ?? Stuff like Vonage, Skype, etc. just stopped working as in here today...gone tomorrow.

Yikes.

So, the ISP isn't getting a piece of the action, so they are POed and pulled the plug on the VOIPs?

I wonder if this is going to be a trend.  Maybe I'd better keep the landline for a month or so just in case.   

Over here, Comcast charges so much for their services, including the phone, they would be greedy bastards if they did the same.

T

[Blaine N1GTU]

I thik the FTC is looking into isp that are degrading voip
there may have been a few lawsuits already if i remember correctly

FTC States That ISPs Should Not Block Access
From Ars Technica, December 28, 2005
By Jeremy Reimer

The US Federal Trade Commission (FTC) has issued a statement in principle that, in theory, should promote the idea of “network neutrality,” the idea that Internet network operators should not prioritize or block network data based on content. The FTC stated that ISPs should not block access to any lawful content, services, or applications on the Internet.

The statement is the first ray of hope for saving network neutrality, which has taken a beating recently. ISPs in some countries have been blocking VoIP data as “inappropriate content” while others have announced or implemented plans for offering “premium access” services that favor the ISP’s own data while crippling the competition’s.

However, there is another angle that the network providers may use to chip away at network neutrality. It involves invoking the modern age’s biggest bugaboo: security. The concept is to restrict consumer’s access to parts of the Internet based on their computer software and hardware configuration. In the guise of protecting users from malware, certain software packages may be required to connect to parts of the Internet. The presence of software that wasn’t on the whitelist, which would presumably include malware (although not the infamous Sony rootkit, as it would probably be flagged safe as coming from a “trusted source”), would deny the user access. This would also encourage the movement to a “two-tier” Internet, where customers would pay for “premium” access to certain content (for example, an ISP’s VoIP service).

Besides the FTC, another major voice coming out in favor of network neutrality these days is none other than Microsoft. According to Chief Privacy Officer Peter Cullen, Microsoft is against ISPs doing anything that would restrict customers’ choice of software. Certainly the software giant would not like to find its own software on “quarantined lists.” Unlike the telcos and cable companies, Microsoft does not own the channel of distribution for its products. It relies on the Internet for distributing and updating much of its new web-centric software these days. And Microsoft has its own VoIP plans as well as new video content offerings over Windows Media Center Edition. Is the company planning on becoming a champion of network neutrality purely for its own interest, for those of consumers, or both?

[John Holotko]

I thik the FTC is looking into isp that are degrading voip
there may have been a few lawsuits already if i remember correctly

However, there is another angle that the network providers may use to chip away at network neutrality. It involves invoking the modern age’s biggest bugaboo: security. The concept is to restrict consumer’s access to parts of the Internet based on their computer software and hardware configuration. In the guise of protecting users from malware, certain software packages may be required to connect to parts of the Internet. The presence of software that wasn’t on the whitelist, which would presumably include malware (although not the infamous Sony rootkit, as it would probably be flagged safe as coming from a “trusted source”), would deny the user access. This would also encourage the movement to a “two-tier” Internet, where customers would pay for “premium” access to certain content (for example, an ISP’s VoIP service).

Well, I think we know what kind of software they would like to exclude from certain parts of the Internet. If you're running Linux, Open Source, free or homebrew software you'll suddenly start noticing that you can't accesss certain parts  of the Internet because the software is not from a "trusted source". Of course if you're running the latest version of Microsoft XP or Vista you'll be permitted access because we all know Microsoft is a "trusted source". Of cours the "trusted source" will be those who give the best contributions at campaign time. Now of course I'm not saying this will nessesarily happen but it is something to be wary of.