What Constitutes Intentional QRM?

[W9GT]

This morning after we enjoyed a nice AM QSO and were signing out, one of our group was jumped by a slop-bucketeer for intentionally interferring with his QSO.  Fact is....we had been on the frequency for quite some time and had heard nothing other than the usual QRM (off to the side) that is nearly always present on 75 meters.  The QRM had noticibly increased toward the end of our conversation and it was aparent that band conditions were changing.  No intentional interference was even hinted at by our group.  We were, rather, experiencing attempts at harassment by SSBers who were impervious to any sort of reasonable accomodation of our AM operation as a ligitimate mode on the band.

Due to a different work schedule, I have spent a little more time on the air in the mornings.  I have noticed that the SSBers have become even more bold recently in attempting to render the "AM window" useless for AM operation.  These are probably some of the same lids who do nothing but complain if we operate anywhere else on the bands, other than in the windows.  Lets face it.....it takes two parties to have a gentlemen's agreement.  It is obvious that one party (or mode) is not even the slightest bit interested in any sort of peaceful, cooperative coexistence.  It is particularly interesting how we have noticed that SSB gangs have been congregating on 3878.5, 3884, and 3888.
They then complain about being QRMed by AMers on 3880 and 3885.  Oh Duh................

To further argue the case....if you are involved in a QSO and the propagation changes, you are certainly not to be blamed for "intentional QRM to other QSOs!!!!

I guess I just had to vent a bit.  I have always been a proponent of cooperation and consideration of each other on the bands.......but this stuff sometimes defies reason!!

73,  Jack, W9GT   

[John Holotko]

It's a no win situation. It doesn't matter  how careful or courteous you may  try to be there is always someone who is going to attack and accuse you of being rude.  That especially hoplds true if you run AM but I'll bet that even if you run SSB you'll still have plenty of jerks making accusations and  launching attacks.

I have also noted that it seems to be a long and ongoing practice for SSB'ers to fire up right in the AM window and as close to an AM QSO as they can get and then the piss and moan that those nasty AM'ers intentionally QRM'ed them with that "illegal AM mode".

[w3jn]

Sad to say that there are some (albiet VERY few) AMers that do this exact same thing.  I suspect that two QSOs can go on relatively close in freuqncy without intefering with each other, then when the band changes and the interference gets stronger each party accuses the other of intentional interference.  This in turn causes the amps to get cranked up and tempers to flare.  It's often easier just to adjust the VFO a bit, or turn the rig off.

I will have to admit getting REALLY pissed a few weeks ago at a certain contester who fired up close to us on 3825, and he was listening in the DX window so there was no asking him to move.  Plus the band was packed with corntesters with no free space at all.  It was a good time to shut the rig off.

73 John

[k4kyv]

I will have to admit getting REALLY pissed a few weeks ago at a certain contester who fired up close to us on 3825, and he was listening in the DX window so there was no asking him to move.  Plus the band was packed with corntesters with no free space at all.  It was a good time to shut the rig off.

Or better still, a good time to turn up the wick.  I don't waste my time arguing with those idiots.  Just continue your QSO and pretend they don't exist.  Don't even mention anything related to the QRM; that only gives them the satisfaction of knowing they are bothering someone. I find that 99% of the time I can receive enough of the other end of the conversation to make some kind of meaningful comment.  I won't give them the satisfaction of knowing they even annoyed me, let alone ran me off.  Often they'll get frustrated and QSY once they figure out you are not going anywhere.

I have experienced this many times: a clear frequency, with 15 kc or more of unoccupied spectrum each side of my operating frequency.  Start up a QSO, and soon a group of slopbuckets fires up about 2 kc away, then they begin to bitch and moan about the AM QRM, while all that adjacent band space remains unoccupied .

All frequencies inside the ham bands are first come, first served.

[Glenn NY4NC]

Words to live by!.. well put Don!

Or better still, a good time to turn up the wick.  I don't waste my time arguing with those idiots.  Just continue your QSO and pretend they don't exist.  Don't even mention anything related to the QRM; that only gives them the satisfaction of knowing they are bothering someone.All frequencies inside the ham bands are first come, first served.

[WA3VJB]

Two suggestions:

1. Roll tape and note the time, calls of the offenders and your receiver setup. Make it an MP3, and send it to Riley as an email with an explanation and a neutral, polite request for guidance as to what you should do the next time.

2. Do not constrain yourself to one rut in the road. Move.

[WA1GFZ]

and if you are running a 70 year old RX that was junk 70 years ago consider that before getting excited.

[The Slab Bacon]

I have experienced this many times: a clear frequency, with 15 kc or more of unoccupied spectrum each side of my operating frequency. Start up a QSO, and soon a group of slopbuckets fires up about 2 kc away, then they begin to bitch and moan about the AM QRM, while all that adjacent band space remains unoccupied .

All frequencies inside the ham bands are first come, first served.

As Don said I, myself have experienced this many times. The ssb idiots open up on you then bitch about you being there. I just turn up the wick and crank up the audio for all that it is worth, pinch down the receiver and continue on as if they arent even there. Dont even acknowledge their presence and eventually they will go away.

Especially 75m has been a "turf war" for many years with many hostile ssb groups who feel that they own the frequency. They can be a real pain in the ass sometimes.
You should have heard the qwermfest last nite when they tried to jam Brent and Keith off of 3875. The qwermers were really getting frustrated when they kept ignoring them. They were trying some really interesting qwerm, but it wasnt working.
(I do a lot more listening than talking)

Sometimes you just dont feel like dealing with the bullszht and If I can find an open spot close by I will move, but if it is crowded and there is no place to move, just crank her up and "git er done" and they will eventually leave you alone. Everyone needs to have a transmitter with "SBE" mode of some type built into it!

                                                        The Slab Bacon

[steve_qix]

This has become a consistant problem, particularly at night with the 3878 group and the 3875 group.

I have tape on the 3878 group from the other night.  I was on with (I forget who, at the moment) a few folks on 3878 the other night - and had been operating for about an hour - nice clear frequency -, when suddenly out of nowhere, there was an SSB QSO zero beat, and carrying on.  I politely asked them to move, and they did acknowledge me!  They claimed they had been there since 4:00 that afternoon (it was now 11PM), which was, of course, impossible - as they were very strong and made communication quite difficult.  They were certainly NOT there during any
part of our QSO, and in fact, the frequency was very clear.

But, the best part (and I do have THIS PART on tape, with a call sign) was when one of them told me I had to move back up into the
"AM window of 3885", or be subject to QRM.  A discussion about this ensued, and several of the SSBers layed stake to the spot and declared
they were not going to move (ever).

I hate to bother the FCC with trivial, playground types of stuff like this, so I havn't sent anything in as of yet.  I think I may gather more
such evidence so I have a pretty solid case, before sending anything in.   I wonder what the FCC does with "tapes" like this?  Do they
care about such "evidence", or does this type of thing simply then prompt the Commission to monitor and catch the infraction "live"?  Anyone know?

Yeah, it's possible to turn up the wick, but it seems such a waste.  The entire QSO becomes unpleasant for everyone involved, and really it just wastes a lot of time.  Sure, I've driven them off a few times, but unless EVERYONE in the QSO has a wick to turn up, piss weaker's law comes
into play (and you know what THAT means!).   

Regards,

Steve

[W1IA]

I have experienced this many times: a clear frequency, with 15 kc or more of unoccupied spectrum each side of my operating frequency. Start up a QSO, and soon a group of slopbuckets fires up about 2 kc away, then they begin to bitch and moan about the AM QRM, while all that adjacent band space remains unoccupied .

All frequencies inside the ham bands are first come, first served.

As Don said I, myself have experienced this many times. The ssb idiots open up on you then bitch about you being there. I just turn up the wick and crank up the audio for all that it is worth, pinch down the receiver and continue on as if they arent even there. Dont even acknowledge their presence and eventually they will go away.

Especially 75m has been a "turf war" for many years with many hostile ssb groups who feel that they own the frequency. They can be a real pain in the ass sometimes.
You should have heard the qwermfest last nite when they tried to jam Brent and Keith off of 3875. The qwermers were really getting frustrated when they kept ignoring them. They were trying some really interesting qwerm, but it wasnt working.
(I do a lot more listening than talking)

Sometimes you just dont feel like dealing with the bullszht and If I can find an open spot close by I will move, but if it is crowded and there is no place to move, just crank her up and "git er done" and they will eventually leave you alone. Everyone needs to have a transmitter with "SBE" mode of some type built into it!

                                                        The Slab Bacon

Yup..you described the technique Frank....Keith and I just kept on trucking....the fact that we live 8 miles apart does have alot to do with it though

It is easier to keep a freq when you have adequate numbers too...Many times I had been attacked when you don't have a regiment..so shut those computers and fire up those bottles.

Brent W1IA

[The Slab Bacon]

I have experienced this many times: a clear frequency, with 15 kc or more of unoccupied spectrum each side of my operating frequency. Start up a QSO, and soon a group of slopbuckets fires up about 2 kc away, then they begin to bitch and moan about the AM QRM, while all that adjacent band space remains unoccupied .

All frequencies inside the ham bands are first come, first served.

As Don said I, myself have experienced this many times. The ssb idiots open up on you then bitch about you being there. I just turn up the wick and crank up the audio for all that it is worth, pinch down the receiver and continue on as if they arent even there. Dont even acknowledge their presence and eventually they will go away.

Especially 75m has been a "turf war" for many years with many hostile ssb groups who feel that they own the frequency. They can be a real pain in the ass sometimes.
You should have heard the qwermfest last nite when they tried to jam Brent and Keith off of 3875. The qwermers were really getting frustrated when they kept ignoring them. They were trying some really interesting qwerm, but it wasnt working.
(I do a lot more listening than talking)

Sometimes you just dont feel like dealing with the bullszht and If I can find an open spot close by I will move, but if it is crowded and there is no place to move, just crank her up and "git er done" and they will eventually leave you alone. Everyone needs to have a transmitter with "SBE" mode of some type built into it!

                                                        The Slab Bacon

Yup..you described the technique Frank....Keith and I just kept on trucking....the fact that we live 8 miles apart does have alot to do with it though

It is easier to keep a freq when you have adequate numbers too...Many times I had been attacked when you don't have a regiment..so shut those computers and fire up those bottles.

Brent W1IA

You just said it ALL, Brent, there has been a very scant amount of AM activity lately.
I realize that conditions have been deplorable, however, there is still porpagation to somewhere. With the lack of am activity the "am window" had been taken up by many SSB operators just finding it a clear frequency and moving in. Like it has been said no one owns a frequency, if it is clear use it.

The best way to keep the slopbuckets out of the am window is to use it for am! Fire up those bottles and get in there and operate! If the window is full of am qsos, the slopbuckets cant claim that the frequency was clear. The best way to win is to be sure that you are in there first. Like the old saying goes: "if you dont use it. you'll lose it!" 

The large break-in group that used to hang around 3880-85 used to do a good job of keeping the window open. Now that that group has somewhat dissipated and all that you have is a few piss weakers, the whole area is getting run over with slopbuckets who think that they have found a clear frequency. I have heard many ssb qsos right on 3885.

So like Brent said: FIRE UP THOSE BOTTLES AND GET IN THERE AND OPERATE!!
More tall ships=less slopbuckets.
                                             
                                              the Slab Bacon

[kc2ifr]

So like Brent said: FIRE UP THOSE BOTTLES AND GET IN THERE AND OPERATE!!
More tall ships=less slopbuckets.

Yup.....not only that but from what I hear in the "window".....seems that some of the"NEW" am'ers came from that pasta net and like to cause trouble. The quality of the am signals I now hear are pretty bad....not only in audio quality but in attitude.

[Fred k2dx]

FWIW, a work around for SSB interference is to listen to the AM carrier and one (opposite) sideband - with my Harris RF 590 it's effective using the 3.2 khz filter.

[WA1GFZ]

Fred,
My hot rod 6830 has 3 of those 3.2 KHz filters cascaded in the IF strip for tight AM.
2 in the front of the IF and one at the output. I stacked 2 filter modules and shoved the third in a spare module slot. I bet you could do the same thing with the 590 since the filters are the same and circuit is quite similar.
SDR is a very effective tool in dealing with crud generators. The soft rock 6 will be shipping next week. I have not needed to connect the SDR to the hot rod yet.

Strap and ignor is my motto. Maybe next year conditions will be better on 75 and I will be motivated.  11 year old 160 rig got a make over this season.

Frank garlic helps.

[Steve - WB3HUZ]

No one ever claimed this people had more than a single digit IQ. :-)

It is particularly interesting how we have noticed that SSB gangs have been congregating on 3878.5, 3884, and 3888.
They then complain about being QRMed by AMers on 3880 and 3885. Oh Duh................

I have always been a proponent of cooperation and consideration of each other on the bands.......but this stuff sometimes defies reason!!

73, Jack, W9GT

[The Slab Bacon]

Frank garlic helps.

Frank,
         I will be thinking about you tomorrow while preparing the woptralian food for post timmmonium party and GARLIC FEST!!

                                                               The Slab Bacon

[W9GT]

As far as I'm concerned, 75 meters is not an amateur band anymore. With all the playground-type antics and appliance operators with their Cracker Jack box licenses and overdriven "leen-yars", it has become CB on steroids.

Yes, .....and a big part of the problem is that the SSBers (Scientific Set Back) create considerably more problems for us when trying to copy an AM signal than the other way around.   I guess it just goes with the territory, but anyone having the illusion that anyone other than AMers observe the AM "windows" is sadly mistaken.  Seems like 75 meters might have always been the "outlaw" hangout, but I don't think it is my imagination that it has really gotten worse over the past few years.  I hate to resort to strap 'em or be crushed tactics, but I guess we gotta make a stand or just take up stamp collecting!

73,  Jack, W9GT

[Glenn NY4NC]

Absolutely!... I much prefer the "beer church" net on 160 meters!.... (credit to my friend Dave K2DK)

As far as I'm concerned, 75 meters is not an amateur band anymore. With all the playground-type antics and appliance operators with their Cracker Jack box licenses and overdriven "leen-yars", it has become CB on steroids.

[VE7 Kilohertz]

I have tape on the 3878 group from the other night.  I was on with (I forget who, at the moment) a few folks on 3878 the other night - and had been operating for about an hour - nice clear frequency -, when suddenly out of nowhere, there was an SSB QSO zero beat, and carrying on.  I politely asked them to move, and they did acknowledge me!  They claimed they had been there since 4:00 that afternoon (it was now 11PM), which was, of course, impossible - as they were very strong and made communication quite difficult.  They were certainly NOT there during any
part of our QSO, and in fact, the frequency was very clear.

But, the best part (and I do have THIS PART on tape, with a call sign) was when one of them told me I had to move back up into the
"AM window of 3885", or be subject to QRM.  A discussion about this ensued, and several of the SSBers layed stake to the spot and declared
they were not going to move (ever).

Steve,

I too was on that night and was calling you as it was the first time I have heard you at 20 over 9. Very nice signal. I couldn't believe those idiots so I rolled tape too, just in case. What a bunch of morons. I gave up calling you as you probably weren't hearing me.

That was a good propogation night though.

Cheers

Paul

[k4kyv]

I was on with (I forget who, at the moment) a few folks on 3878 the other night - and had been operating for about an hour - nice clear frequency -, when suddenly out of nowhere, there was an SSB QSO zero beat, and carrying on.  I politely asked them to move, and they did acknowledge me!  They claimed they had been there since 4:00 that afternoon (it was now 11PM), which was, of course, impossible - as they were very strong and made communication quite difficult.  They were certainly NOT there during any part of our QSO, and in fact, the frequency was very clear.

This is the well-known Richard 'n Wally group. I am very familiar with that bunch of  in-breeds, who take pride in their ignorance.  Their technique is to keep the receiver on all day, glued to that frequency, using it like an open telephone line.  Whenever any one of the idiots wants to talk, they expect the frequency to be clear for their convenience.  Often they will show up out of nowhere within seconds as soon as someone else transmits near the frequency, just to "claim" their territory.  To them, monitoring for hours without transmitting constitutes "using" the frequency.

They first showed up about 10 years ago, and according to some comments heard, the choice of frequency was intentional because they knew that AM'ers hung out in that part of the band, and one of their openly expressed intentions was to "run the AM'ers off."  Before Riley began his enforcement program, members of that group would go so far as to make threats of bodily injury and vandalism of property to anyone who refused to yield the frequency. 

Several members of the group received Rileygrams regarding foul language, deliberate interference and making over-the-air threats to other amateurs.  Since then, they have somewhat lowered their profile, but they still employ many of the same tactics, just in a more subtile manner.

When they think AM signals are getting too close to their private turf, some of their techniques include deliberately overdriving their leenyars to broaden out their signals, alternating between USB and LSB (while overdriving their leenyars), transmitting (very dirty signals) on AM, and QSY'ing up to 3880-3885.

The best way to deal with that bunch of retards is to "strap 'n ignore."  At times, under favorable propagation condx, they go away because they can't take the heat.

[Glenn NY4NC]

Paul;

Are you suggesting we bow to a bully??

2. Do not constrain yourself to one rut in the road. Move.

[WA3VJB]

Not at all.

As others here have pointed out, there is little to be gained by constraining yourself to an area that outsiders occasionally use for their entertainment.

FCC Enforcement Counsel Riley Hollingsworth this weekend, in response to a question at his Forum at the Timonium (Md.) Hamfest, told the audience he does not recommend trying to battle it out, on the air, with people like we are talking about (malicious interference).

The two reasons he discouraged such a confrontation are that it presents a bad environment that can be monitored by others (such as the utility industry), and that it's less effective than documenting any call signs heard and dropping him an email if the situation becomes chronic.

Comparing it to a crowded shopping center parking lot, when there's established QSO underway, that's who gets the right of way to continue using that spot on the dial, NOT the people who later arrive and try to nudge their way in:

Hollingsworth:

http://www.wa3vjb.com/sound/75mParkigLot.mp3



For myself, I prefer to use my license's entire range of phone privileges. I recommend it to others, and hope you will look beyond the rut in the road that I mentioned earlier.