MA Solar incentives. How bout your state??

[N9NEO]

Homeberew power was brought up in another thread so I thought this may be useful info.  I heard on boob toob last night that Mass is giving out some type of rebate for I think it was solar electric panels.

Has anyone heard this about Mass or maybe some other states giving out incentives??

As I think it was Warren who said that nobody is putting in their own systems to save money.  So far this seems to ring true with every system I have looked at.  Not to be negative but If the Oil supply goes to shit for some reason.  Like Bush pissing off the arabs, or China just Helter Skelter buying it all up then maybe the crossover point is not so far away timewise.  Another thing to remember is that EVERY one of the Nuke plants here in USA built in 60s and 70s were licensed for 40 years.  So over the next 15 to 20 years the licenses are going to be up for renewal.  This is really going to be interesting to see how this is dealt with.

[K6IC]

Hey Bob,

Here in CA there is an alternative power subsidy.  Usually it is for Solar.  Systems must be grid-tied, use compliant parts, be installed by a licensed contractor (I think anyway) etc.  This iinitiative is fairly large here,  and covers schools,  businesses and residences prob each with its own restrictions.  Think that the subsidy is about 30-40% of the installed cost,  up to a reasonable limit.  Here,  the utility is not required to buy the power.  So most systems here are sized to meet the nominal annual needs.  The grid is the battery,  and contribution to the grid in excess  of amount  drawn generates  a credit,  which has a time limit (perhaps limited to one year).   The goal is to have the credits about equal the debits.

Since my system is off-grid,  I have not looked into this plan,  here.  We do have expensive power-- abt  $0.21/Kwh in the top tier for a residence.  Small commercial pplyphase customers appear to have abt $0.30/Kwh rate ... a real killer for smaller businesses.

For off-grid systems,  there is no subsidy-nothing.  Guess that really,  the subsidized on-grid systems compete against the off-gridders and drive up the cost of the parts for the unsuzsidized off-grid systems.

Think that many states which do not have large excess Hydro power (etc) have alternative power subsidies.  Most states which are growing,  have, or will soon have limits on ability to generate power.   So more states may well adopt alternative power plans.  Lotta sun is a big help for solar -- hi.

But for me @ the remote QTH,  there is no choice -- ceate your own power,  or go to bed at dark.  I still find the generation of power by solar panels,  and storing it for later use in batteries to be quite magical ... just silently keeps working along.

73  DE  Vic  K6IC

[WB2RJR]

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/growth.html




Here is a graph showing the cost of energy in various forms from 1980 projected to 2030. Clearly anything in your house which can be done by coal or natural gas is the way to go. Coal is selling for $1.00 per million BTU, presently natural gas is $5.50 per million BTU. Three months ago natural gas was $11.50 per million BTU.

Generally if a capital investment will pay for itself in 3 years or less it's worth doing. That doubles your money in 6 years. That's only about an 11% rate of return.

Solar looks to have a payout of around 35 years with no maintaince expenses. Unless you live in a remote location it looks like a poor financial decision.

Probably smarter to make sure you have a gas stove, waterheater and frig. Insulate the house well and heat it with coal.

[Warren]

Homeberew power was brought up in another thread so I thought this may be useful info.  I heard on boob toob last night that Mass is giving out some type of rebate for I think it was solar electric panels.

Has anyone heard this about Mass or maybe some other states giving out incentives??

Hi,
    There is an excellent website; "The Database of State Incentives for Renewable Energy (DSIRE)" that has all of the State incentive and rebate programs for solar as well as other renewables (wind, bio-fuels etc.)
    The DSIRE site links to the specific State program pages. On the web at:

http://www.dsireusa.org/

73 Warren K2ORS/WD2XGJ

[Warren]

As I think it was Warren who said that nobody is putting in their own systems to save money.  So far this seems to ring true with every system I have looked at.  Not to be negative but If the Oil supply goes to shit for some reason.  Like Bush pissing off the arabs, or China just Helter Skelter buying it all up then maybe the crossover point is not so far away timewise.  Another thing to remember is that EVERY one of the Nuke plants here in USA built in 60s and 70s were licensed for 40 years.  So over the next 15 to 20 years the licenses are going to be up for renewal.  This is really going to be interesting to see how this is dealt with.

  Keep in mind that 1/2 of U.S. electricity is derived from coal, 18% from natural gas, 20% from nuclear, 6.5% from hydro power and only 3% of the electricity is produced by petroleum fired plants.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/epa/figes2.html

 The sector that would be most impacted by an oil shock would of course be transportation, so if you are specifically worried about a shock to the oil supply, buy a fuel efficient car (or better yet a bicycle!)

73 Warren K2ORS/WD2XGJ

[Warren]

Homeberew power was brought up in another thread so I thought this may be useful info.  I heard on boob toob last night that Mass is giving out some type of rebate for I think it was solar electric panels.

Has anyone heard this about Mass or maybe some other states giving out incentives??

Massachusetts has the " Small Renewables Initiative Rebate" which is good for $2.75/watt with the following strings attached:The PV system must connected to one of the investor-owned electric distribution utilities in Massachusetts -- Fitchburg Gas and Electric Light (Unitil), Massachusetts Electric (National Grid), Nantucket Electric (National Grid), NSTAR Electric, or Western Massachusetts Electric; 
have  a maximum system capacity of 3.5 kW per household; Applicants will be required to install revenue quality meters on the systems to record the electrical production. The production must be reported monthly to the MTC Production Tracking System (PTS) for a minimum of one year after installation.  [/b]

Keep in mind that you have to do some paperwork, it's not automatic (it's more like a grant application). And the when the money set aside for rebates runs out its over. Also  Note: As of September 29, 2005, Block 1 of the Small Renewable Initiative (SRI) was fully allocated. Block 2 (second $1,000,000) was approved on October 28, 2005. 

73 Warren K2ORS/WD2XGJ

[WA1GFZ]

I checked into the Ct deal where you had to use a pro to install the system.
So far it is a scam to make installers big bucks. I figured I would have to spend $15 to $20 K to get $5K  back and it would take a good 15 years to break even.
I could invest $20 K with a return of 5% and do better.

New solar cell process is coming out to reduce cost a lot so the future may bring a better deal.

Bob, I took a power course at work a few years ago that covered syncing to a AC source with SCRs. My buddy in CA with the wind mill has a similar system. I saw the schematics the last time I visited him.

I need to look into all the
motors in the house and consider PFC

We need to build safe nukes in this country. Heck they have been doing it on ships for what 50 years now.

[Tom WA3KLR]

We do need nuclear power plants.  Unfortunately the Three Mile Island incident here in Pennsylvania gave nuclear power a bad name.  You need good procedures and good supervision basically; a tall order in America these days. 

A couple of guys from TMI should have been hung by their 'nads.

You need competent people in the control room with common sense and you will be o.k.  TMI didn't have this.

[WA1GFZ]

Tom,
The friggen bean counters should have been hanged. They probably got rid of the brains required to run things safely and gave themselves a big bonus.

Once I got a chance to wrap my arms around one of the main busses off the
Milstone 1 nuke generator I became 60 hz.... (it was insulated)

[Warren]

New solar cell process is coming out to reduce cost a lot so the future may bring a better deal.

Frank,
    Not to through cold water on this but I've followed the solar biz for 10 years or so. Every few weeks a company or laboratory announces a revolutionary new solar PV technology that will radically increase the efficiency and reduce the cost of making cells. Unfortunately, there almost always is a catch, either the new technology is unmanufacturable, has a short life, or has otherwise been grossly over-hyped. It's true that new materials and manufacturing processes have brought down the cost of making cells somewhat over the past 5 years or so. BUT the manufacturers are NOT passing the savings along in terms of lower sales price because they can sell all they can make at the existing price of $4-$5/watt. They keep the difference in terms of higher profit margins.  I swear that some of these announcements are done just so the company can hype it's stock.
This may be a real breakthrough and be different, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

73 Warren K2ORS/WD2XGJ

[Bill, KD0HG]

I think the other form of solar energy, wind, is far more practical than photovoltaics.
If I was planing to go off the grid, there's no question that's the way I'd go.

[WD8BIL]

Well Home Grown, with the constant winds out there I agree.
Never took a shot out there that I didn't hafta hold upwind !!!

[Warren]

I think the other form of solar energy, wind, is far more practical than photovoltaics.
If I was planing to go off the grid, there's no question that's the way I'd go.

Bill,
     Wind is generally more cost effective than PV provided you have the right location. You need average wind of 8-11 mph before a wind turbine makes sense.  I recommend putting up an anemometer and collecting wind speed data for a year before investing in a wind power system. You also need a beefy 80-120' high tower (not Rohn 25!). There is a fantastic slide show on the American Wind Energy Association web page that gets into the nitty-gritty of wind power:
http://www.awea.org/pubs/documents/swslides/toc.htm

73 Warren K2ORS/WD2XGJ

[Bill, KD0HG]

Well Home Grown, with the constant winds out there I agree.
Never took a shot out there that I didn't hafta hold upwind !!!

Oh yeah, like when I nail prairie dogs at 500 yards with a  Barrett 99....
 

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