AM Tower Available - Be A Big Strapper

[W1GFH]

------------

We are moving  our AM station to  a new transmitter site and will have a 200
ft tower available, free, but you will need to pay for its safe disassembly
by the professional tower company. Click the link below for details and
pictures

http://www.wshu.org/engineer/tower/amtower.asp


Paul A. Litwinovich

Director of Engineering

WSHU AM & FM, WSUF-FM

N1MUC

FCC License  PG-GB 039245

"RF IS GOOD FOR YOU"

[WA1GFZ]

Gee,
Does Tom Vu still have that hole in the side yard? Might be a good place to plant tower seeds

[K1JJ]

Gee,
Does Tom Vu still have that hole in the side yard? Might be a good place to plant tower seeds

Naw, filled it in and put a simple Rohn 45 there.  That hole was for a self supporter  - way too big.

At this point you couldn't deliver and GIVE me a tower for free. All towered out here. Right now just racing to see if I can finish up major antenna work before the December hawk starts nipping.

That tower would be perfect for your new Niantic ocean mansion. Your neighbors won't mind. 

T

[Glenn NY4NC]

I've always been amazed that all the weight of a big monster broadcast tower like that all rests on a single small insulator!  not to mention all the downward force from the guys.

I wonder what would happen if it broke?

[KA1ZGC]

------------

We are moving  our AM station to  a new transmitter site and will have a 200
ft tower available, free, but you will need to pay for its safe disassembly
by the professional tower company. Click the link below for details and
pictures

http://www.wshu.org/engineer/tower/amtower.asp

  I'm confused.

If the tower is coming down anyway, why should anyone pay $3500 to have it taken down, escpecially if the current owners aren't really sure what kind of tower it is? What happens if they have no buyers? Does the tower stay up, or does SHU pay the $3500 and do nothing with the tower sections?

The tower itself is "free", but you have to pay $3500 dollars for disassembly, even though it will already be disassembled when you arrive to pick it up? That's hardly "free". I'd rather buy sections and let the station pay its own bills.

Not trying to heckle, here, but the numbers don't add up from where I'm sitting. Am I missing something?

--Thom
Kilimunjaro Africa One Zulu Goat Cheese

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Liability, litigation, and all that fun stuff plays a big role now, Thom. Or maybe they cut a deal with with the tower company since they're already on site (although they do seem to leave the door open for a company of your choosing to dismantle). They probably want to make sure a bunch of drunken, pole-peeg-stealin' weenies don't show up and destroy the place. 

Wouldn't mind having it myself if not for the cost. It'd be the ideal accessory for the RA-1000 kit.

Remember the new rule for today's p.c. world: you're considered stupid/incompetent until you prove yourself intelligent/capable.

[WA1GFZ]

there are 2 ways to take a tower down.......one method guarantees a trip to the scrap yard.

[KA1ZGC]

Liability, litigation, and all that fun stuff plays a big role now, Thom. Or maybe they cut a deal with with the tower company since they're already on site (although they do seem to leave the door open for a company of your choosing to dismantle). They probably want to make sure a bunch of drunken, pole-peeg-stealin' weenies don't show up and destroy the place. 

Wouldn't mind having it myself if not for the cost. It'd be the ideal accessory for the RA-1000 kit.

Remember the new rule for today's p.c. world: you're considered stupid/incompetent until you prove yourself intelligent/capable.

I understand that, but that's not what I'm talking about.

According to the website, when you show up and pay the balance of $3500 for this "free" tower, it will already be disassembled and stacked up in sections. Liability doesn't enter into it. Quoth the website:

The tower will be available mid October. It will be stacked in 20 ft sections and you will be responsible for picking it up with a flatbed truck or trailer. We can have a couple of guys there to help you load it but you should bringe at least two people unless you have a boom truck.

The typographical errors are theirs, not mine.

So I still don't understand why the station is making the new owner pay for something that the station will have already done anyway. If I'm taking away tower sections, why the hell should I pay for the tower becoming tower sections? Taking the tower down is their responsibility, not the prospective owner's, but the prospective owner still has to pay for it? That sounds very shady to me.

Take the tower down and sell the sections to recover the cost, and I'd feel very different about it.

--Thom
Killer Agony One Zipper Got Caught

[W1UJR]

Take the tower down and sell the sections to recover the cost, and I'd feel very different about it.

--Thom
Killer Agony One Zipper Got Caught

I had the same thought, nice to think of the amateur community, but...

Actually if you read the wording of the offer closer, you will also find that if the tower gets damaged during the removal process you are out $3000...but wait, all is not lost; you do get your $500 deposit back. 
A tad more concerning, care to gamble?

Chances are the tower has already been depreciated to $0 on the company’s books, just a smart business practice.
I would imagine, perhaps I am wrong; the liabilities which Todd pointed out may preclude another commercial interest purchasing and then installing a used tower.
So what are the alternatives, free, sold for scrap, etc.?

Say, didn’t Tom Sawyer do something like this to get a fence painted?
Gotta love Mark Twain, he is one of my fav historical characters.
Did you know he was once a river boat pilot and took his name from a depth sounding of the water?

[W1GFH]

Radio stations are notoriously cheap. I bet the GM/owner exploded when he heard it was going to cost $3500 to haul the old tower away. "$3500???That's more than I pay my DJ's in a YEAR!""I'll tell you what, we'll get one of those rich HAM guys to buy it, they fork over $10,000 for their superduper IcomYaesuKenwoods. Yeah, that's the ticket...."

I knew you Yankees would see thru this scam. Which is why I posted it.

And check out the coup de grace on their website:

"Any material left on site after October 28th will be discarded and no refund for said material will be issued. "

"Discarded"?  Just hang out by the local dump on October 29th and get a free tower.

[k4kyv]

That's less that what I  have seen R-390's go for on e-pay.  The Lapp insulator itself would cost almost that much, new.

Maybe e-pay is where they should list it.

My take is that it is still in use, and the tower co. will have to take it down to install the replacement, and plans to charge them $3500 for doing so.  They are trying to recoup their expenses.  If the tower and hardware are in good condx and undamaged, that is not a bad price.  Adjusted for the devaluation of the dollar since 1980, that's pretty close to what I paid for my 127' of Rohn 25 + hardware (new).  I put it up  myself.  I don't think I would tackle the assemby or disassembly of a 20 ft./section commercial tower.

Perhaps if there are no takers, the tower co. will simply cut the guys and let it fall in a controlled direction, and charge them much less.   Another possibility, they will take it down and stack the sections, and the stuff will just sit there, and they will eventually let it go for best offer, if no-one is willing to pay their asking price.

With the demise of Rohn, I suspect good tower sections have appreciated in value.

There was a four tower directional AM that went dark about 60 miles from here.  The  local ham club was given all 4 towers for taking them down (Rohn 25, about 150' high each).  They managed to break one of the base insulators, but the rest of the stuff was undamaged.  Club members split up the tower sections and unfortunately,  they all went into typical ham radio tower projects, about 60' of tower with the bottom section partly buried in concrete.  No-one was interested in using the guy wire or base insulators.  I picked up a base insulator at a hamfest for $25, just to  have a spare on hand.  Those insulators are very expensive and hard to find.

The ceramic insulators are designed to take the compressive load consisting of the weight of the tower, the downward force resulting from guy wire tension, and the extra downward force resulting from wind forces.  The small insulator is literally rated for tonnes of compressive force.  Traditionally, they are hollow inside, and the walls are very thin compared to the diameter of the insulator.  The idea is to create a minimum of dialectric constant between the tower base and ground.  In recent years, a plastic composition insulating material is frequently used instead of porcelaine.

One frequent source of damage is for the weep hole at the bottom to stop up.  This is usually the result of insects or other creatures nesting inside the small hole.  The insulator unnoticeably fills up with water, and come winter, the water freezes and breaks the ceramic.

WSM in Nashville is famous for its ~800 ft. Blau-Knox diamond shaped tower, in use since 1933. The site is officially on the national registery of historic places.  The base on that tower is insulated with two Lapp insulators, similarly shaped (but much larger) to the one in the above photo.  The bottom insulator is attached to the concrete, in an inverted position, and the top one is attached to the base of the tower.  There is nothing more than a small pin that holds the two insulators together.  During WW2, a brick wall was built around the base of the tower to prevent saboteurs from shooting at the insulator with a rifle.  WSM was considered a stretegic communications facility.  The brick wall is still there, as opposed to the usual white wooden picket fence that protects most AM tower bases.

[KA1ZGC]

I knew you Yankees would see thru this scam. Which is why I posted it.

Whoa, hang on, now.

If you want to call me a yankee, that's okay-fine. If you want to call me a Yankee, that's something different.

I'm a Red Sox fan, hombre! 

--Thom
Killer Aphrodesiac One Zesty Green Cannabis

[K1JJ]

Speaking  of Rohn tower....  I don't have this as first hand info, but, I was recently told by a friend who is a Rohn dealer that Rohn was taken over by another larger company. He said it is in operation and selling tower as before.

That's good news for hams, being it's the most popular tower used.

As far as this tower for $3500....  That seems a bit much in labor to take it down. Considering it is in 20' sections, that's only 10 sections. They might use a crane, but "REEEAL Men" still use zircon encrusted gin poles and winches on the cheap...

There are good Rohn 45 tower sections for cheap or that can be taken down for free.  That's a great tower with accessories readily available. With the graying of the ham population, there will be more and more XYL's begging to get them out of the backyard.  My last 110' Rohn 45 and guy/hardware was free for the labor of taking it down. Give it a good paint job [use heavy zinc paint] and it'll do involuntary servitude as your sex slave out back.  Add in some heavy scrap yard I-beams as guy rods for $10 apiece and all you really pay for is concete, the permit and a shushi dinner for the ground crew. [and a hot ho too, if they are single]

T

[Paul, K2ORC]

   all you really pay for is concete, the permit and a shushi dinner for the ground crew. [and a hot ho too, if they are single]

T

Want to keep it hamsexy cheap?  Forget the ho.  Bake a pie and kill two birds with one stone.

[KA1ZGC]

Speaking  of Rohn tower....  I don't have this as first hand info, but, I was recently told by a friend who is a Rohn dealer that Rohn was taken over by another larger company. He said it is in operation and selling tower as before.

That's good news for hams, being it's the most popular tower used.

Rohn was taken over by Radian, and still does business under the Rohn name.

http://www.rohnnet.com/

Now you have it first-hand. Lemme guess, the urban legend was that they went tits-up? Too much of their product in the field for that. They're not just for hams.

--Thom
Kinky Astronaut One Zero Gravity Cunnilingus

[K1JJ]

Yeah, they did go Chapter 11 back in Sept, 2003 according to the article below.

It's kinda predictable after that big cell tower infrastructure building boom. These companies always think it will last forever and overexpand. But as Gordon Geiko said, "but it never does".  They get fat and sloppy, then the demand slows and they are left with too many vice presidents, buildings, big salaries, etc., and few new orders.

But as you said, Thom, they have such a great name and huge assets, they were a great company to take over the exisitng business with debt liquidation/settlement to start over.

Speaking of Rohn 45 tower sections, in recent years, there has been a move to bigger and fatter commericial towers. The monopoles have taken over even the big self supporter lattice or guyed towers in some places. So, the older Rohn 45/55 ["skinny towers" as one tower guy called mine] are being replaced everywhere. We are past the peak, but there is still surplus Rohn 45/55 as a result. Still a good opportunity for the ham bros. 

T

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"ROHN Files Chapter 11 - September 18, 2003
ROHN Industries, Inc. announced that the Company and five of its direct and indirect subsidiaries have filed voluntary petitions for Chapter 11 relief with the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in the Southern District of Indiana. The Company also announced that, concurrent with the Chapter 11 filing, it has entered into a $9.5 million debtor-in-possession line of credit with the lenders that are party to the Company's Amended and Restated Credit Agreement, subject to the approval of the Court, which will include funds that will be rolled forward from the Company's current credit facility. Upon the filing of the bankruptcy petition of the Company, but following the approval by the Board of Directors of the Chapter 11 filing, Stephen Gorman and Jordan Roderick each have resigned from the Board of Directors of the Company. Currently, Horace Ward, the Chief Executive Officer of the Company, is the only remaining director of the Company. The Company has retained the Indianapolis law firm of Ice Miller to act as its legal consultant."

[W1UJR]

as Gordon Geiko said, "but it never does". 

Gordon Gekko is my hero!
Recall his "Greed is good." speech?

Classic movie by the way, walking along the beach with the big Motorola "brick" phone, remember those days?
Or the "braces", does anyone still wear suspenders or was that an 80s thing?
I've lost track of fashion now that I live in the home of flannel.



Extracted from -->> http://www.americanrhetoric.com/MovieSpeeches/moviespeechwallstreet.html

[KA1ZGC]

I'm going to stray off-topic even further for just a few minutes.

But as you said, Thom, they have such a great name and huge assets, they were a great company to take over the exisitng business with debt liquidation/settlement to start over.

The same is happening with the airlines, too. They're something of a commodity in this society, we've grown to depend on them, but they can no longer manage their operating costs. I doubt anyone is suprised by the recent Chapter 11 filings, even with the recently-recodified Chapter 11.

They won't go completely away because they can't. Some other carrier(s) will have to absorb them just to meet the continuing demand. Unlike the Rohn situation, however, I'm hard-pressed to come up with another carrier that can really afford it. Even leaner carriers like JetBlue are operating in the red, but less so than most carriers are.

In situations like these, bankruptcy is more frequently a minor setback than a going-out-of-business sale. Clear the books, re-organize, merge, start again. It's a sad story when a business that simply must exist is almost guaranteed to lose money by its very existence.

Let's just hope the gubmint doesn't try to fix this one with another Amtrak. I suspect that would be far worse than individual carriers operating in the red.

Slightly off-topic, I know, but just another example of the system correcting itself. As we say in The Biz, "working as designed".

--Thom
Killer Album One Zappa's Greatest Compositions

[k4kyv]

Add in some heavy scrap yard I-beams as guy rods for $10 apiece and all you really pay for is concete, the permit and a shushi dinner for the ground crew. [and a hot ho too, if they are single]

We don't need the permit here where I  live.