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For Those Who Believe ARRL Does Nothing, Nothing, Nothing...




 
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Author Topic: For Those Who Believe ARRL Does Nothing, Nothing, Nothing...  (Read 14500 times)
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Pete, WA2CWA
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« on: May 25, 2005, 02:26:43 PM »

One of the many fine examples of ARRL work in progress:

http://www.remote.arrl.org/news/stories/2005/05/20/1/?nc=1
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Pete, WA2CWA - "A Cluttered Desk is a Sign of Genius"
Joe Long
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« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2005, 07:52:59 PM »

"So, if we are hanging out in the basement and doing nothing but building rigs and working DX, we're going to be victims" Are members still doing this? Who is building slopbucket rigs in their cellar?I thought that that was what QST was for. You know. Your basic ricebox catalog.
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Pete, WA2CWA
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« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2005, 09:36:18 PM »

Quote from: K2PG
Unfortunately, when the ARRL decides to "generate some heat", it's often us radio amateurs who get burned. Witness the incentive licensing debacle, the continuing obsession with subbanding and government micromanagement of a HOBBY radio service, and this latest asinine bandwidth proposal, which is even more obnoxious than the original RM-20777 that was proposed (and shot down) some 20-25 years ago.


Water over the dam; in the past; gone; ir's an AMATEUR radio service

Quote
The League does nothing? NO, the League does plenty...but it's usually the wrong thing. And I'd rather be building a rig in my basement (or den) than be the glorified CB'er, appliance operator type to which QST appeals these days! The experience I gained from building and troubleshooting various kinds of radio equipment helped prepare me for a career in broadcast engineering. What kind of practical experience does one get from navigating menus on a ricebox and seeing how much QRM one can generate over a 48 hour period during Sweepstakes?


So you build and troubleshoot and got prepared for a career in engineering; so what;  doesn't mean that all amateurs want to follow the same footsteps. Navigating multiple menus and sub-menus on a current rig may require more skill and agility than troubleshooting. For many amateurs, careers and amateur radio have no connection. 48 hour contest operating requires some very unique skills.

Quote
This is what you would have me spend $39 a year for?


For some, it's better that they're outside, looking in.  No vote, no say, just vent to anyone who will listen.
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Pete, WA2CWA - "A Cluttered Desk is a Sign of Genius"
Jim, W5JO
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« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2005, 10:35:46 PM »

Quote from: Pete, WA2CWA
For some, it's better that they're outside, looking in.  No vote, no say, just vent to anyone who will listen.


Wow Pete you really let him have it, didn't you.  I paid dues and felt those flames.  

This kind of response is what many are aggravated about.  If you have any influence with the League Directors, you might inform them that there is a lot of people unhappy with many of their decisions and adjendas.  To solicit input from digital types only and formulate a proposal based only on that is not what amateur radio is about.

Say we who like AM managed to get the Directors to propose 1 KW input and 16 Kc bandwidth on any frequency in the bands, what do you suppose the digital types would say to the Directors?  I guess they would be as pissed as we are.
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K1MVP
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« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2005, 10:40:30 PM »

Quote CWA/
" So you build and troubleshoot and got prepared for a career in
  engineering; so what.--navigating multiple menu`s ans sub menu`s
  on a current rig may require more skill and agility than troubleshooting"
  unquote

 
  Comon  Pete-- get real,
  Any "computer geek" can navigate menu`s,--so what?
  How does that relate to understanding "basic rf concepts"?

  I knew guys in the military(not so long ago) as I retired only a
  few years ago, who could navigate menu`s and "dump programs"
  but when it came to troublshooting a basic aircraft wiring problem,
  they didn`t "have a clue" where to begin.

  At least back 30 or 40 yrs ago, if a guy held a ham ticket, an employer
  "took notice"--nowadays any employer gives little or no "credance"
  to the holder of a ticket.--Why do you suppose that is?
  Might it have something to do with the "instant" or "jiffy" licensing
  system we now have in place?

                                    73, Rene, K1MVP Smiley
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Pete, WA2CWA
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« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2005, 03:58:50 AM »

Quote from: Jim, W5JO
Quote from: Pete, WA2CWA
For some, it's better that they're outside, looking in.  No vote, no say, just vent to anyone who will listen.


Wow Pete you really let him have it, didn't you.  I paid dues and felt those flames.  


Part of my point of the post was that too many are dealing with issues of the past. Good or bad they're gone. Bringing them up with today's issues and concerns just adds fodder where it has no use and isn't needed.

Further, the notion of troubleshooting and repair, career in engineering, practical experience,  "real ham" etc. is great if you're so inclined and have the ambition to pursue this course. I wonder how many amateur radio housewives, doctors, lawyers, car salesmen, store managers, and countless other non engineering professions view "troubleshooting and repair" as real ham radio.

Quote
This kind of response is what many are aggravated about.  If you have any influence with the League Directors, you might inform them that there is a lot of people unhappy with many of their decisions and adjendas.  To solicit input from digital types only and formulate a proposal based only on that is not what amateur radio is about.


I have one Director and one vote to keep him or throw him out of office and to provide input and feedback to my issues and concerns in the amateur radio service. Talking to other Directors is fine, if they're willing to listen, but only my Director will take my issues and concerns to the Board of Director's meetings. Relative to the initial bandwidth proposal, throwing it out to the amateur radio community for comments at least a year before they might submit it is a good thing.

Quote
Say we who like AM managed to get the Directors to propose 1 KW input and 16 Kc bandwidth on any frequency in the bands, what do you suppose the digital types would say to the Directors?  I guess they would be as pissed as we are.


I guess part of the Director's "jobs" is to sort out the realistic and unrealistic demands of amateurs.
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Pete, WA2CWA
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« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2005, 04:09:00 AM »

Quote from: K1MVP
Quote CWA/
" So you build and troubleshoot and got prepared for a career in
  engineering; so what.--navigating multiple menu`s ans sub menu`s
  on a current rig may require more skill and agility than troubleshooting"
  unquote

 
  Comon  Pete-- get real,
  Any "computer geek" can navigate menu`s,--so what?
  How does that relate to understanding "basic rf concepts"?


Not all amateur radio operators are "computer geeks". Understanding  basic rf concepts does not make one a troubleshooting and repair person.

 
Quote

  At least back 30 or 40 yrs ago, if a guy held a ham ticket, an employer
  "took notice"--nowadays any employer gives little or no "credance"
  to the holder of a ticket.--Why do you suppose that is?


When I applied for a job at Bell Laboratories in 67, there was nothing to check off that I was an amateur radio operator.
"employer gives little or no "credance" to the holder of a ticket.--Why do you suppose that is?"
Maybe they don't care what you do in your spare time. They're more interested in what you bring to the table to further the Company's profitability.
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Pete, WA2CWA - "A Cluttered Desk is a Sign of Genius"
w3jn
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« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2005, 07:14:25 AM »

Quote
At least back 30 or 40 yrs ago, if a guy held a ham ticket, an employer
"took notice"--nowadays any employer gives little or no "credance"
to the holder of a ticket.--Why do you suppose that is?
Might it have something to do with the "instant" or "jiffy" licensing
system we now have in place?


Speaking for my own employer, even our HR weenies recognize the value of a ham ticket when recruiting for engineers.  Evidence of outside interests of a technical nature (surfing the internet is NOT considered a technical hobby) such as a pilot's license, scuba license, etc., is a considerable bonus when ranking potential candidates.

I've done quite a bit of recruiting and those with a ham ticket have a demonstrated INTEREST (not necessarily in-depth knowledge) of electronics.  We can teach them what they need to know to do their jobs.  What is important is the interest and motivation.  And despite the disdain of many for the state of today's ham exams, it STILL takes dedication and motivation to get a license.

73 John
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K1MVP
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« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2005, 07:39:05 AM »

Well Pete,

 Try troubleshooting without a basic understanding of RF concepts,--
 GOOD LUCK.

 As far as employer`s recruiting hams,--I very distinctly recall one
 that actively did advertise in QST back in the late 50`s and early
 60`s.
 Raytheon, as I recall did target ham radio operators in QST as
 potential candidates for  field service engineering  back then.
 QST nowadays seems more like an AES catalog, with product
 reviews.
                                    73, K1MVP
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WD8BIL
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« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2005, 08:28:02 AM »

Quote
As far as employer`s recruiting hams,--I very distinctly recall one
that actively did advertise in QST back in the late 50`s and early
60`s.


You don't hafta go back that far.

I was choosen for my present position because my boss knew I was a ham. He even used that fact to preface the companies offer !!!!!

Quote
ARRL Hudson Division Director Frank Fallon, N2FF, told the League's Grassroots Lobbying Forum that when it comes to Congress, individual radio amateurs can help shape their own future.

"Political lobbying is something people don't really want to hear about," Fallon conceded. "But politics controls everything we get."


Yup... as Mr. Fallon said here... It's all about politics ! And politics is all about using other peoples money to give the appearence that you're actually doing something.

When the money runs low you target another benefactor.
In this case, can you say digital Huh Sure.... I knew you could.
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Jim, W5JO
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« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2005, 08:54:18 AM »

Pete, who is to decide what issues are of the "past"?  The ARRL Directors without input from the ham community" or without input from the membership? Or by ignoring both?

I have only one vote as well, and when I tried to express my displeasure at the proposal, the answer from my Director was trite.  He did take the time to answer, but I felt ignored.  He did not take the time to ask any questions or try to convince me otherwise.

I have the feeling he doesn't care what my views are, part of the problem with the ARRL.  Simply publishing an editorial in QST doesn't cut it anymore.  My Director posts information through the ARRL reflector to division members.  Why can't he call for opinions on important issues such as this on that venue?  This smacks of arrogance and is prevalent among the Directors.  It seems as if they think they are the only group of hams with enough knowledge to make important rule changing decisions.

As a former employer and as a manager for a multi-national company responsible for hiring technical types, I always looked for people with technical expertise and found that anyone who had a ham background was  more capable than those without.  If they had a technical hobby, they were quicker and more dedicated to learn the job at hand.

I am not saying that all hams must be able to trouble shoot circuits, but they better have an understand of what they are controlling otherwise you will have chaos on the bands, sort of what we have and the ARRL does very little to correct this problem.  

There are many places the ARRL could devote resources and time rather than developing and supporting ill conceived concepts such as the bandwidth proposal.  Excluding the majority of the population is really a poor choice and has resulted in loss of members.  So by your logic, "issues of the past" would be us here on this board who use AM gear?  Pete, I don't think we are going to let them get away with it.
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WD8BIL
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« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2005, 09:42:09 AM »

Quote
"issues of the past"


Besides Jim.... considering the mindset of the League hasn't changed in 30 years, issues of the past give insight to what they are liable to do next.

So yes Pete, quit the P&Ming about what has been done. But remember the mindset that led to it.
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WV Hoopie
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« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2005, 12:19:16 PM »

Idle thoughts from one who has chosen not to join the ARRL and for the forseeable future will not. I've never been that active in Amateur Radio, but from my view point can give clues why others might choose not to join the ARRL.

The ARRL is only, just, and for my needs a publisher of good reference material. QST sucks, save your money and buy good whiskey.

The ARRL started down the wrong path years ago. Those in the leadership positions of the ARRL decided not to defend ALL radio amateurs. To hell with the old and on with the new. If the ARRL wants more members, etc. it had better start defending every inch of ham radio, don't settle for less, get their overpaid hindends in DC and lobby for MORE!

Take a hard look at how the NRA runs their ship, now there is a real battle cruiser! I like their attitude problem, "Don't give an inch", "From my cold dead hands". If AM were a firearm the NRA would not turn its back.

The ARRL is whimpy and it's panties have been on display for years.

wd8kdg,
Craig
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WD8BIL
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« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2005, 01:05:50 PM »

Quote
The ARRL is only, just, and for my needs a publisher of good reference material. QST sucks, save your money and buy good whiskey.


Now there's a gooder idea !! Smiley
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W2VW
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« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2005, 02:59:12 PM »

Quote from: WV Hoopie

Take a hard look at how the NRA runs their ship, now there is a real battle cruiser! I like their attitude problem, "Don't give an inch", "From my cold dead hands". If AM were a firearm the NRA would not turn its back.

The ARRL is whimpy and it's panties have been on display for years.

wd8kdg,
Craig


HMMMM? N.R.A.M. it has a nice ring to it.
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Jim, W5JO
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« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2005, 03:06:35 PM »

Someone check my memory....seems as if some agency of the Fed (CIA, NTIA or someone like that, maybe FBI) had recuiting ads in QST some years (maybe make that decades) back for hams to join the agency.  Seems as if they were looking for guys that could copy CW for intercept operations among other duties.
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Art
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« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2005, 06:32:42 AM »

Pete,
Your initial posting and subsequent responses are classic examples of ARRL misalignment with amateur radio operators at large.
Was that your intent? Are you working to make the ARRL seem even more autocratic and out of touch than it is? If so, I am impressed with your ambition. If not, well . . . .
Art
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