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Author Topic: Are silver mica capacitors being rendered obsolete due to cost?  (Read 5330 times)
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Patrick J. / KD5OEI
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« on: December 29, 2015, 01:44:08 AM »

First I have read of this. They are not that costly. What would even replace silvered mica caps in RF circuits, etc?

Of course I should not trust WP for knowledge. I did not find info on the dipped silver mica cap industry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_mica_capacitor
"The silver mica capacitors are also now becoming obsolete because of the high price of mica. Even though these capacitors are extremely useful, they are not in common use anymore."

Who writes these things? Is there Mica, and then Silver Mica? What have I missed?

The folks below and many others offer all you want..
http://www.futureelectronics.com/en/capacitors/mica-capacitor.aspx

CDE makes real SM caps.
http://www.cde.com/resources/catalogs/STD-DIPPED.pdf
http://www.mouser.com/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Mica-Capacitors/_/N-5g97



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Radio Candelstein - Flagship Station of the NRK Radio Network.
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« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2015, 04:30:28 AM »

You can always go into Wiki and add or change something...
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Ken<br />N4zed
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« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2015, 09:36:36 AM »

This raises an interesting question.  What is a suitable replacement for SM caps in high power RF applications?
A case in point is the 5 low pass filters in my HB linear amp which uses 3 caps per filter made up of 2 or 3 1KV SM caps in parallel to get the required value and power.  At $5.00 each that adds up to over $150.00 just for the caps.  And my tuner uses another 7 or 8.  I have seen ceramic caps used in tuners and amps but I have not been able to find any that work as well as SMs. The variety of ceramics I've tried get hot, even had one blow apart but the SMs run cold.  If anyone has a source of good high power RF quality ceramics or other type of RF cap please share your info.  Happy holidays,
Nigel  VE3ELQ
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« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2015, 03:34:48 PM »

The grey disc-looking  Russian ceramics hold up pretty well, eBay is full of inexpensive ones.

73DG
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« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2015, 08:21:55 PM »

It used to be that you would use ceramic capacitors up to a few hundred pF and get NPO tempco, but higher values had unstable ceramic dielectric. This included 5 kV doorknob style. Recently, ATC (one of the leading companies) introduced 100E capacitors, NPO to higher capacitance, and up to 7200 VDC rating. These should be checked out as a potential replacement for silver mica with high power.

http://www.atceramics.com/Product/29/700_E_Series_NPO_Porcelain_High_RF_Power_Multilayer_Capacitors_%28MLCs%29
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« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2015, 08:40:03 PM »

In the text, I meant ATC 700E, not 100E capacitors. They also make 100E but these aren't NPO at up to 2.2 nF.
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« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2015, 07:51:59 AM »

Seems to me that there are two factors.

First, I read that the best mine and source for high quality mica is exhausted.
So, the mica available now is not as good as it once was.

Secondly, mica generally speaking does not translate to SMD, which is where the quantity business is for component manufacturers. So, it's a low volume biz, which means high prices.

And third, as mentioned ceramic does not require mica at all, and can be made in labs/factories.

Seems to me the wikipedia account is erroneous, but there is a requirement for a citation for what is written - of course that source can be utter BS too.

                        _-_-
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« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2015, 12:07:51 AM »

Seems to me that there are two factors.

First, I read that the best mine and source for high quality mica is exhausted.
So, the mica available now is not as good as it once was.

Secondly, mica generally speaking does not translate to SMD, which is where the quantity business is for component manufacturers. So, it's a low volume biz, which means high prices.

And third, as mentioned ceramic does not require mica at all, and can be made in labs/factories.

Seems to me the wikipedia account is erroneous, but there is a requirement for a citation for what is written - of course that source can be utter BS too.

                        _-_-

It can also go too far the other way. Since anyone can edit it, there are a few people making impertinent calls on the validity of subject matter for which they have no understanding. I've seen arguments in the backside of WP against an external link to a properly referenced document  for no other reason than that the document's author was an amateur researcher and not a professional author or a scientist. A bit of Animal Farm goes on there.

Improvement of WPs curation is important -obviously it caused some surprise, but the facts about the caps are more important. I don't find them too costly where they are really needed. It's a shame about the Mica situation.
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« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2016, 12:23:21 PM »

This raises an interesting question.  What is a suitable replacement for SM caps in high power RF applications?
A case in point is the 5 low pass filters in my HB linear amp which uses 3 caps per filter made up of 2 or 3 1KV SM caps in parallel to get the required value and power.  At $5.00 each that adds up to over $150.00 just for the caps.  And my tuner uses another 7 or 8.  I have seen ceramic caps used in tuners and amps but I have not been able to find any that work as well as SMs. The variety of ceramics I've tried get hot, even had one blow apart but the SMs run cold.  If anyone has a source of good high power RF quality ceramics or other type of RF cap please share your info.  Happy holidays,
Nigel  VE3ELQ

Look at the net for Communication Concepts, they have nice caps. For the RF generators I did produce, I always used ATC, nice but very hard to fins. AVX is more friendly and just as good as ATC
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