Three dialer TRF becomes a transceiver

[VE3LYX]

I am always fascinated by ancient radios. In a moment of weakness several years ago I bought a old King Neutrodyne made in Buffalo about 1925. It was rough and will never be collector quality however it interested me. A week ago I was thinking back in the day someone or ones must have taken one of these old receivers and made a complete ham station. I decided to sacrifice this one on the experimental altar to see.  I was determined to change nothing in appearance and as little as possible inside. First RF stage became a VFO feeding the second stage as a PA. VFO runs on 90 volts while PA runs on 225v. I added a gridleak assembly and a choke to the first stage for the VFO and just a choke in the second stage and some rerouted wiring for keying etc. Tx was done. Draws about 5 watts input and puts out 1.8 to 2 watts approx on CW. Did I try loop modulating it? Certainly. And yes it works.
Next stage which was a grid leak detector is now a regen with the addition of a GL condensor and an RF choke to keep RF out of the batteries (30 nine volts)and PS leads. It feeds the same untouched two stage audio it always did and works pretty good all considered. Regen control of which only minor is needed is by controlling heater voltage on the detector tube. The band hasn't been real great the last couple of days but I am tuned up on or about 3555 and try it when I think I have a chance. I think it took 6 parts, rewinding the coils for 80M (17 turns) and some wire rerouting and we're away. I will probably faint when I get my first QSO but it will be a ball I am sure. My RF sniffer says it is making enough (close to my BK rigs output) to be heard on a good night so hopefully it is just a matter of time. All 5 tubes are 01As
don
UPDATE
Had it up on 40M today (Wed)and had it modulating.

[VE3LYX]

testing now and this evening on 3586 +or_ . I can switch to AM in a second. just send AM.
don

[KA0HCP]

Good looking set, Don.   3586kc is in the US CW segment so don't expect any fone replies from south of the border!  bill

[VE3LYX]

Yup I know. I am on CW but have the fone available if requested for just a quick burst. Otherwise I will stay CW. Band is really dead tonight so far. Not much point in sending if things are bad (rig is on batteries so I dont want to waste them)however I am monitoring it in case it gets active.
What is the rig in your picture? Looks interesting
don

[KA0HCP]

80m is like silk tonight (Thursday).  I'm listening to the New England gang and plenty of others.

The transmitter in my photo is a Navy GO-9, this one manufactured in 1943 by Westinghouse in Baltimore Maryland, about 70 miles from my home south of Washington DC.

The GO-9 was used primarily on flying boats from the late 1930's into the 1950's including PBY Catalina, PBM Mariner.

The transmitter output varies by band but is roughly maximum of 100W and less.  It transmits CW and MCW, Modulated CW but NO fone!   Modular in construction, the left side is MW for marine frequencies, 500kcs and down, center is the power supply and the right side is HF to about 18Mc.

Westinghouse developed a brother transmitter which included fone, the TBW.  It too is modular, but each portion fits in a water tight aluminum case.  It was part of a portable command post set which included receivers, RBM series, for MW and HF, generators, antenna mast, batteries, etc.  On the top shelf is an RBM-2 HF receiver with cover akilter.

I obtained the transmitter from a ham in Central Virginia who did contract work for the Navy.   He said the radio came out of storage in new condition in the mid-1980's.  So indeed, the Navy was keeping 40 year old sea plane transmitters....Just in case!

I now have both receivers, two AC power supplies, an AC/DC converter (not the right term).   I didn't intend to get into naval radios....it just sorta happened.    Bill

[VE3LYX]

A very cool piece! You are fortunate to have it!
80M here was flat. I heard only two signals an both were weak. normally the band is plastered. Prop report said only fair. that is unusual. Usually it is daytime fair , night good. hopefully tonite or the weekend even will be better
don

[KA0HCP]

My first contact was on 40m with a ham in Georgia with less than 10w.

The antenna? A light bulb dummy load the previous owner gave me! 

I was checking the keying relay and troubleshooting a chirp with just enough power (I thought) to get across the room to the service monitor when the other fellow replied.   

The old stories are true.  You CAN work the world with a light bulb, QRP!

b.

[Steve - K4HX]

ANT HR LITE BULB - HI HI

Just goes to show, if you call CQ, anything can happen.

From reading the late 20s and 30s QSTs, I've learned that world wide DX was worked very often (maybe most often) with stations running 10 watts or so and a simple wire antenna. And the receiver was often a regen or a very simple (especially by today's standards) super-het.

I've worked 5BDXCC but I don't consider it that big of an accomplishment.

[KA0HCP]

http://aafradio.org/flightdeck/go9.htm

Here is a better description and photos of the GO-9 than I could post.

Mike is a ham who lives in Northern Virginia.  A skilled machinist as well as technician, he has a wonderful collection of radios in his basement.  When he isn't working on his own restorations, he volunteers at the Smithsonian Udvar-Hazey Aviation Museum.

He has nearly every ARC-5 box and accessory ever made...all hooked up!

[VE3LYX]

Thanks I took a look.
don

[Todd, KA1KAQ]

Just goes to show, if you call CQ, anything can happen.

Ain't that the truth!

That GO-9 is a sweet looking piece of equipment. I've often wondered what, if anything, it would take to swap the center section with that from a TBW to get a 'fone rig. Might be some PS issues involved. The TBW lacks a true cabinet which is a good part of the coolness factor for the GO-9. Especially if you have the anti-sway top mounts installed.

[VE3LYX]

There are probably a hundred ways to do phone. Many work well, most work to a point. On my ARC5s I wanted the ability for occasional use and got it easily with no mods to the radio. IE can you hear me? yes. Can you understand me IE is it clear? yes. Not broadcast audio though....bla bla bla bla. Oh get stuffed! It is a communications radio designed to be used and abused in a noisy environment. To be heard and understood over 4 unmuffled multi cylinder engines with bullets wizzing by. Taint a FM 101.5 Classical Music Concert. If one can realize that the rest is easy. I don't use mine a lot but when I do I enjoy it. Mine are T18 & T19 slid into the ham bands with minor VFO adjustments. Yours is quite a bit fancier but chances are also cathode keyed which makes it easy to get phone on without messing with the radio itself. BTW I just realized I have never used them for a QSO on CW. Always AM. I only use them where they are welcome as well. Where the others appreciate the old units running in old traditional style. I keep them out of my regular group.  They are not high powered rigs and some fellows need a new rock in their crystal set (I cant hear you. etc etc)So it would be pointless to try them in such a situation. Lots of places where one can use them though and it is a lot of fun.I like using the original carbon mics to but now have both capabilities for Carbon or modern mics. Kinda funny now that I think of it. The never been on CW thing. I have had them running a few years now. Maybe I should plug in a key and pound some brass.
don

[VE3AJM]

I'll just put this out here. I live about 76 miles from you Don, so relatively close to you really. I live in the country with mostly a zero noise level on the bands. A very quiet location for radio.

When you are using your MOPA, or single tube transmitters with the cathode modulated audio etc.. ARC-5s...TRF ..HB....Minimalist tx of any sort....ie. any transmitter other than the DX-60....for the most part, you are unreadable here. The signals, when I can hear them, sound scrambled..garbled....mostly from all the severe FMing and instability from the tx, and chasing you up and down the band, and with whatever modulation is there, it is at a level of about 10%, from what I can see on my scope. It is far below the level of being able to sustain any type of QSO with you on phone. Anything is possible, but very unlikely. That is the reality in receiving you here.

So if that's the idea, that you just want someone to say that I can hear a weak signal out there, with no possibility of actually having a real QSO with you.or to just answer you on the internet..but not on the air...yes..you could say that it works?...its stretching the subjective interpretation of that to the extreme. And thats OK of course if that's all that you want.

However, that may not be the goal of others on here, those that actually want to be heard for real, have a clean well modulated AM signal, and have a QSO on the air.

Al VE3AJM

[VE3LYX]

I have worked the east coast several times with the one tubers just for the record. Some of those are on here and have said so. I don't know if you have ever heard the ARCs. If so only perhaps once or twice at the most and then just for a single burst.  I did have the HB 811A Linear fart once recently and you suggested I was doing something else and gave me your "much more efficient forms of modulation speech" however it is fixed now. Lost a bypass cap in its cathode /heater circuit for some reason I don't yet understand. Usually I work one the boys across the lake during prenet with my ARC5  as they can read me and offered to try a sked as I sorted through the three different designs of modulators. Just cause U cant hear doesn't mean they don't work BTW. I have often talked to Tim PG with no problem many times when you fellows were whining about cant hear, weak carrier etc etc while you screw and unscrew your TR switch. I think I can say for sure with authority you have never heard my one tubers on AM ever because I know you have never had that opportunity. I can name on my hands the times I have used it for a QSO on AM. Normally it is a CW rig. And it is a 40M rig TNT where you and I have never been together at least during the last few years since I have been playing with them. It can not do 80M. Only a portion of 40M as the grid is not tunable.  Jumping to conclusions is not always the best exercise.   Sometimes close isn't what it takes. Prop is a funny thing. I can often work the eastern US coast from here but can't work TO, Newcastle etc. I am enjoying learning and experimenting. Tis what makes it fun for me. My boat, my shack and I am the captain. Exploring some of these things is to me extremely interesting. I like to build. Sure not everything works but it is fun trying. To me anyway. I don't give two hoots about the status quo. I am just curious.
don

[VE3AJM]

Offering up an honest assessment from my perspective, of the HB txs that I have heard from your station mostly on 80m in light of the thread about building a low power transmitter, seems to upset you Don. That wasn't my intention of course. Tickling someones ears and telling them what they want to hear, or BSing, serves no purpose to me either. And no one is telling you to stop doing what you're doing there. This has nothing to do with plate modulation vs grid/cathode/screen modulation. From the time since you've become active on AM in the last few years, the guys on 3725 have been friendly and patient, and tried to impart to you what they are hearing from your station. They do the same with me too. Take it in the spirit that it was given, if you choose to. Only good intentions here.

Most of the time, I can't tell what tx that you are using, only that it is weak, unstable, it FMs and has almost no modulation. If you had a scope inline or another method to monitor your own signal, you would already know that. Perhaps you are unaware of it or have forgotten? This in light of other stations from your area who I can hear very well under similar propagation conditions etc. In the grand scheme of things, ham radio is just a small sliver.

Life is learning. Most of us embrace that concept without hostility. Have a nice day.

Al VE3AJM

[WD5JKO]

  I enjoy reading the posts from Don. He has a special ability to revisit forgotten technologies, and to make them work...such as loop modulation.

   Yesterday on 75m (3890) I experimented with NBFM with +/- 2 Khz deviation. Two guys running Flex 3000's. 

  So here is an idea for Don;  use a MO-PA configuration and AM modulate the oscillator, and bias the PA class C. The end result will be a signal with very little AM, yet it will be outputting NBFM. Now wouldn't that be a kick, run a NBFM rig using loop modulation! I wager this has never been done.

  Keep up the posts Don...

Jim
Wd5JKO

[VE3LYX]

With all my equipment so poor and unstable and weak I would hesitate to even use a walkie talkie.
I have enough abuse for now. Just gonna tie a string to some cans and try and talk with the XYL
don
+-2kc is pretty decent I think. Let me know when you are testing. I would love to listen in.
The loop thing I found very interesting. Probably because I had built regens that used an absorption loop and a rheo to absorb enough Rf that it kept the rx under osc point (patented by Geo Clough in England about 1927) so when I first heard of the loop through Lou Ve3AWA I understood immediately what was happening and with in minutes had tried it with a clip wire , a carbon mic and my GDO.  I was shocked at how it worked eventually I looked at it on my home made monitor scope and was a bit surprised at what I saw until I realized I was not modulating the carrier to produce voice but absorping part of it as it went out so it was essentially unchanged, just a portion redirected. I found that really curious. A couple of weeks ago I found a HP bulletin from 1964 where absorption  mod of an oscillator to produce AM had been used in AM modulated microwave transmitters to produce a very narrow AM signal. In fact in one test and they showed the scope pattern they had been able to AM modulate to 10KC of modulation and still show no visable sidebands being produced. (dont jump on me folks . that is from hewlett packard )It is a very intriguing form of AM and I did not known that it had been explored at that level. I thought it had been left in the dust in the 1919. I asked a retired radio design engineer about it and an E tech involved in rf design I know. Both encouraged me to explore it even though they had not heard of it. Since then I found a lot on it. Radio News had several articles in the early 20s which I now have in Doc files on this computer and ARRL did extensive testing on it in their lab in the twenties giving it a big thumbs up for low power (under 5 watts) rigs. I have that reference as well. Prof Arno Coro of Radio Havana Cuba Short Wave Show(with whom I had some contact during designing my slug absorb regen) told me he had also used it for years on a low power 6l6 rig. Three fellows from this list were kind enough to volunteer to help me test it on 40M. I was able to have all three QSO successfully and one other privately a bit later. It was not perfect but it did certainly work. Much of the problems which were not huge are caused by the TNT rig itself which is not the most stable transmitter ever designed. And it is more  a fun rig for the BK and Linc Cundall or SK nights then something one would use regularly however I learned enough to know that it is a practical method and likely with a some care in construction and some ability to carefully adjust the loops position and spacing probably could produce a near perfect signal. I haven't had time nor inclination to build such a device yet as the Loop Mod net has  not yet materialized. I am quite content to use it occasionally when asked.  It seems to be hard to understand. You are absorbing a portion of the signal not actually modulating it and the difference, or mirror image is what is left is what goes out the antenna and is heard. Anyway it made sense to me right away and I certainly felt privileged to try it and am grateful to those who were kind enough to volunteer to help me test it. It was a lot of fun. My current interest is working mod from the cathode end and it has been a challenge sometimes but I have got it working decent now. Dave in Henrietta across the lake from me was kind enough to volunteer to fire up early in PreNet so I could do a couple of tests. Help like that is huge as you can stare at a scope all day or meters but sometimes rf in the shack will cause them to lie. Distance is the cure sometimes for a good test. I now need to put a bit more push in my speech amps or use an amplified mic which I also had to do BTW on my DX60B to give it some suds.
don