Anyone else playing around with the SM-57 and SM-58 clone microphones?

[W1AEX]

I'm a sucker for cheap stuff and needed to pick up a dynamic for use with a couple of rigs on my operating bench. After looking at the 99 dollar line-up of dynamic microphones made by Sennheiser, AKG, and SHURE the cheap clone microphones caught my attention.

I was curious about these $9.95 dynamic mics that are sold direct by Amazon and after watching a few YouTube videos of the Pyle PDMIC78 and reading lots of enthusiastic reviews I decided to order a pair of them just to play with. They are sold by the Pyle company that manufactures automobile audio products and a line of low-end pro-audio components. Unlike the SM57 and SM58 clones that are selling for between 35-60 bucks with fake SHURE boxes and documents, Pyle sells these under their own name for $9.95 with no attempt to portray them as an original SHURE product.

When they arrived I did a side-by-side comparison with my beat-up old SHURE SM-57 that at this point is held together with black tape after being dropped so many times. The PDMIC78 looks just like a real SHURE SM57 and it sounds very similar except that it has some noticeable presence rise between 1k and 5k which makes it sound sharper than the flat response SM57. When I opened up one of the clones to examine the workmanship it was obvious that the the twisted pair of black wires were tack soldered very poorly. The microphone was also wired for an unbalanced output with pins 1 and 3 of the XLR connector strapped together and connected to one side of the dynamic element and the other side of the element soldered to XLR pin 2. I removed the flimsy unbalanced wiring and re-wired the microphone with XLR pins 2 and 3 going to the dynamic element connections and pin 1 strapped to the microphone case so it would function as a proper balanced microphone. That surgery took about 10 minutes to complete and it worked fine when plugged into my audio rack.

The picture shows my beat up SHURE SM-57 on the left with one of the PDMIC78's in the middle and on the right the other PDMIC78 with my SHURE A2WS windscreen mounted on it. The first mp3 file is my ANAN 100 transmitting on AM with the real SHURE SM57 and then a PDMIC78 clone. The recording was made with my Kenwood TS-590S (10 kHz bandwidth) through its USB codec into Adobe Audition. The second mp3 file is my Kenwood TS-590S transmitting SSB with a PDMIC78 clone microphone. That recording was made with the ANAN 100 (3 kHz bandwidth) using Adobe Audition.

I've ended up using one of the PDMIC78 microphones with the 590S for general SSB use and have gotten very good reports with it. If you're in the market for a decent sounding dynamic and don't mind doing a little soldering these things are worth looking at!

Oh yeah... my wife was putting together an order at Amazon yesterday and I couldn't resist ordering a Pyle PDMIC58 (SHURE SM58 clone) just for the fun of it...

Rob W1AEX

[flintstone mop]

The clone has a slightly brighter sound compared to the real SM57. The SSB sounded really nice. How is AM TX audio from the Anan??
I had about 6 of the SM57's retired from my former employer. They were nice mics. Very nice vocal mics, for s(h)ure.
I bought a real SM58 and the gain control for the Symetrix 528, used for the TS850, had to be turned up all the way. I could not bring myself to spend another $100 for an RE27.
I realized the SM 58 has lower output compared to the Marshall condenser or my Blue Spark condenser. The SM58 resides in the Flintstone audio studio. Too good of a microphone to be used for Amateur radio...........so now I have a super mic being used on WBCQ and they are using a GPT750 as the main transmitter..........eeeerrrrrrr.
Fred

[K1JJ]

Yo Rob -

Only a cheap pimp would use a Gomer Pyle mic ...  

Actually, as many have found with the $3 RS electret condenser cartridge, price is not always an indication of performance.

The real test would be to hook up a blind A/B test switch against your best mic and get a few of the hi-fi audio sheiks to give a report. (Tron, Steve, Jeff, Chris)  Aside from the extra built in highs curve,  if they cannot agree on the best sounding choice, then you know youse gots a winner.

Maybe $100 isn't the primo mic price-floor anymore.

T

[W1AEX]

The clone has a slightly brighter sound compared to the real SM57.

Hi Fred,

Yeah, the clone is noticeably brighter throughout the voice range. The frequency response graph shows a 6dB ramp between 1k and 3k which makes it quite different from the SM57 which starts to ramp up at about 2.5k. It also has higher output than the real SM57 which is a bonus. Of course the biggest bonus is the $9.95 price tag!

How is AM TX audio from the Anan??

That "Shure SM57 vs Pyle PDMIC78.mp3" attached to the original post is the ANAN transmitting AM with a 10 kHz profile and being recorded with my TS-590S. The TX audio of the direct sampling ANAN runs circles around everything else I have ever used to transmit AM. It's flat from 20 - 20k and will reproduce whatever you feed it very cleanly. I set my TX profiles to restrain it to 10 kHz total bandwidth for AM but you can set it up to 40 kHz wide and shape the audio to restrain it as you like. You have nearly unlimited control over asymmetry (until you reach the point where your signal is carrier starved and starts to sound like DSB) and OpenHPSDR has a form of software audio limiting that makes it impossible to push the rig into ALC.

But wait... there's more!

Add the big bonus of pre-distortion linearization that offers TX third order IMD of -50dB and it's an amazing package!

:O)

Yo Tom -

I'm not sure I'd dare to admit to using an SM57 clone in the ghetto where everyone else is running nothing less than an EV RE-27! Actually, as good as the clone sounds on AM it's still not as smooth as the Marshall MXL-770 electret so I'll stick with that until the RE-27 and Neumann M-149 clones fall under the 10 dollar threshold!

Rob

[Steve - K4HX]

Seems like that would be about perfect for AM amateur radio use.

The frequency response graph shows a 6dB ramp between 1k and 3k which makes it quite different from the SM57 which starts to ramp up at about 2.5k.

[W1AEX]

Yeah, the frequency response graph shown below caught my eye as I was looking for something to use with the TS-590S which I sometimes use for casual SSB contacts. Anything with some push between 1 kHz and 3 kHz seems like a good idea for simple voice work.

Rob

[W3RSW]

Than graph looks suspiciously like a D-104.
Output higher than regular dynamic too,  uh huh.

Think I'll overlay some graphs.  Hold them up to a window. 

Might be interesting to run a real audio freq. scan on the PDM mikes.

[W1AEX]

Rick,

I chuckled at the tagline on the chart that says "Typical Frequency Response". From reading the reviews I believe there's an awful lot of variation between these things. I also noted that with the wiring between the mic cartridge and the XLR being black wire in a twisted pair format that you have a 50-50 chance of the mic being wired either in-phase or out-of-phase. Out of the box my two SM57 clones were wired in opposite phase from each other. When I re-wired them I put them in the same phase as all my other microphones to make them compatible with my transmitters. My SM58 clone was delivered this morning by Amazon (Sunday delivery!!??) and I have not had a chance to check that one out yet.

There are quite a few YouTube videos about these Pyle microphones and a few of them show the insides and compare them to the insides of the real Shure microphones. There is some speculation that these are being manufactured in a plant that Shure used to have in China. After they left the facility a Chinese manufacturer bought everything and began pumping out these clones. I'm not sure how true that is but the resemblance of these clones is pretty close to the real thing. Ah well, it's fun messing around with cheap stuff!

73,

Rob W1AEX

[w1vtp]

Than graph looks suspiciously like a D-104.
Output higher than regular dynamic too,  uh huh.

Think I'll overlay some graphs.  Hold them up to a window.  

Might be interesting to run a real audio freq. scan on the PDM mikes.

Here are the two graphs.  I think the D104 is still the best for native presence quality.  Just have to present the correct Hi Z load to it

Al

[Steve - K4HX]

In phase or out of phase with what?

...being wired either in-phase or out-of-phase.

[W1AEX]

In phase or out of phase with what?

Good question!

[W3RSW]

All the rest of your stuff, matching your good ear vs. bad ear, heh heh.

[flintstone mop]

It seems that it's a shot in the dark whether a microphone will be wired for the proper phasing. It depends on the voice of the Ham operator. In a broadcast environment; all that technical stuff has been addressed or there is a phase flipper in the audio processing.
An O'Scope is the best test for AM modulation. Positive peaks!!!
Or a neat REA modulation meter. See the positive and negative peaks.
Fred

[w1vtp]

In phase or out of phase with what?

...being wired either in-phase or out-of-phase.

I think I understand the phasing issue in this thread - when one switches from one microphone to another it shouldn't be necessary to flip the phasing switch that should be present in every audio chain, albeit a simple  connection from a D104 to the jack input of the speech amp.  In the D104 reference: they are notorious for having the phase different between one mic head to another.  I guess it's up to the station operator whether or not to rewire the mic so that it wouldn't be necessary to flip the phasing switch when going from one mic to another. 

My preference would be just to flip the switch while looking at your favorite way to see which phase is correct.  Myself, I use the REA modulation monitor - it's quick and accurate.  In the example attached, the little edge view meter shows the amount of asymmetry but it's quick to see from the positive / negative scales which is correct.  Same thing can be done on a scope and by some with trained ears by listening. 

The only time I need to address this issue is when I'm going from the 32V1 and my class E or Flex system.  Need to rewire the 32V1 line input some day.

Al

[W1AEX]

Many dynamic mic elements will have their connections labeled as either + or - and should be wired so that the + is soldered to pin 2 of the XLR connector and the - is soldered to pin 3 of the XLR connector. When wired this way a microphone will display a positive voltage (on your galvanometer) when the diaphragm makes an inward excursion and a negative voltage as it makes an outward excursion. When I repaired microphones for Peavey they were quite fussy about correctly wiring their mic cartridges to ensure best results where multiple mics were being used. At any rate, if all your dynamics are wired that way they should produce the same result when used with the same transmitter or when used on stage with multiple microphones. Unfortunately, these knock-off microphones don't have a + or - label on the dynamic element and are wired with a twisted pair of wires that are the same color, so you have a 50% chance that a pair of them will be wired the same way. There are some complaints from users who have multiple mics on stage about random opposite phase with these microphones at the Amazon reviews for both the PDMIC78 and the PDMIC58 products. I just wire my knock-off clone microphones so that they behave the same way as my other microphones and call it a day!

Rob W1AEX

[w1vtp]

Many dynamic mic elements will have their connections labeled as either + or - and should be wired so that the + is soldered to pin 2 of the XLR connector and the - is soldered to pin 3 of the XLR connector. 

<snip>

etc..

Rob W1AEX

Yup   

[flintstone mop]

Hi Al
I wish my REA display looked like yours!
I have a voice symmetry switch on my Symetrix 528 and it doesn't make any magic happen. I might experiment and switch the phase on my mic and THEN switch the voice symmetry and see what happens.
I am using a Kenwood TS850 with processed audio going right into IC 3, AN612 Balanced modulator. TX audio is from a few cycles to 10kc. Flat.
Fred

[w1vtp]

Hi Al
I wish my REA display looked like yours!
I have a voice symmetry switch on my Symetrix 528 and it doesn't make any magic happen. I might experiment and switch the phase on my mic and THEN switch the voice symmetry and see what happens.
I am using a Kenwood TS850 with processed audio going right into IC 3, AN612 Balanced modulator. TX audio is from a few cycles to 10kc. Flat.
Fred

Interesting, Fred.  Perhaps we can either take it up on a separate thread or start up an email dialog.  Do you have the voice symmetry button out?

Perhaps a separate thread or email

Al

[flintstone mop]

Hi Al
I wish my REA display looked like yours!
I have a voice symmetry switch on my Symetrix 528 and it doesn't make any magic happen. I might experiment and switch the phase on my mic and THEN switch the voice symmetry and see what happens.
I am using a Kenwood TS850 with processed audio going right into IC 3, AN612 Balanced modulator. TX audio is from a few cycles to 10kc. Flat.
Fred

Interesting, Fred.  Perhaps we can either take it up on a separate thread or start up an email dialog.  Do you have the voice symmetry button out?

Perhaps a separate thread or email

Al

I sent a PM Al

[WB2CAU]

Many dynamic mic elements will have their connections labeled as either + or - and should be wired so that the + is soldered to pin 2 of the XLR connector and the - is soldered to pin 3 of the XLR connector. When wired this way a microphone will display a positive voltage (on your galvanometer) when the diaphragm makes an inward excursion and a negative voltage as it makes an outward excursion. When I repaired microphones for Peavey they were quite fussy about correctly wiring their mic cartridges to ensure best results where multiple mics were being used. At any rate, if all your dynamics are wired that way they should produce the same result when used with the same transmitter or when used on stage with multiple microphones. Unfortunately, these knock-off microphones don't have a + or - label on the dynamic element and are wired with a twisted pair of wires that are the same color, so you have a 50% chance that a pair of them will be wired the same way. There are some complaints from users who have multiple mics on stage about random opposite phase with these microphones at the Amazon reviews for both the PDMIC78 and the PDMIC58 products. I just wire my knock-off clone microphones so that they behave the same way as my other microphones and call it a day!

Rob W1AEX

Positive pressure on the diaphragm will produce a positive output voltage is a standard convention for microphones, as you've stated.  Most, if not all, name brand microphones adhere to that convention.  At the very least, all microphones of the same brand and model should be phased similarly. 

What puzzles me is that Pyle is not a fly-by-night outfit.  They are (or at least were) a part of Harman International, which includes several well-known professional audio companies.  How is it that they are now producing similar-in-looks products to the Shure brand?  And then to produce these microphones without adhering to long established conventions tells me that quality assurance must not be a very high priority anymore. 

[Steve - K4HX]

Yep. That's polarity, not phase.

[wd8das]

The Shure SM58 is a good mic available for typically $100 new, but don't overlook the exceptional bargain represented by the much-cheaper Shure PG48 and PG58 mics  ($30 and $50 respectively).  They sound quite comparable, if not better for our purposes (presence rise, greater output).

Choice of mic depends a lot on one's voice.  For my main station mic I usually use a Sennheiser 421 microphone, but the $30 PG48 sounds really good on the air too.

The PG48 has a greater upper mid bump and more lowend rolloff relative to the PG58.

Steve WD8DAS

[W1AEX]

Steve, thanks for the comments about the PG48 and PG58 mics from Shure. When I first noticed them it looked like Shure was promoting them as perfect for speech and vocal applications, which certainly is ideal for ham radio use. There are a couple of YouTube reviews of the PG58 and PG48 showing side-by-side comparisons with the SM58 and to be honest they sound very similar to me. As you said, the price is right too.

After spending some time with the Pyle PDMIC58 which is a clone of the Shure SM58 I have to say I like it a lot. It comes with a ball-type windscreen which works fine if you stay about 3 or 4 inches away from it, but if you close talk it a foam windscreen cover is needed. I ordered a couple of the 3 dollar cheap windscreens and they worked fine with this microphone. When I took the ball screen cover off it looked identical to the Shure SM58 which I loaned to my son 6 years ago (and have not seen since). To my ears, it sounds just like the PDMIC78 (SM57 clone) microphones that I bought last week and no one could tell the difference when I swapped them out on the air. Each mic comes with an unbalanced (center conductor and shield) 15 foot mic cord that has a 1/4 inch phone plug on one end and an XLR plug on the other end. You also get a mic clamp with a standard fitting to mate up with a boom or mic stand. In spite of the crappy solder job inside that you need to address if you re-wire the mics for balanced use you get a lot in the package for less than 10 bucks.

Rob W1AEX