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Author Topic: Can anyone recommend a source or publication  (Read 4593 times)
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KG0MN
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« on: October 07, 2013, 01:37:38 PM »

that would provide information about using an oscilloscope to tune and work on tube type radios and transmitters?  Any suggestion would be appreciated, my goals is learn what the capabilities of a scope are in relation to tube type circuits as well as to learn the proper attachment point to look for common problems such as AC hum, or faulty components in an audio stage, or chirp on a CW signal.  I hope that explains what I am after, I guess to summarize it I am looking for a basic scope use in tube circuit book.
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W3RSW
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Rick & "Roosevelt"


« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2013, 02:14:45 PM »

Howard Sams Publications produced several "101 ways to.."  books circa 1959

"..to Use your VOM and VTVM."  Robert T. Middleton
"..to Use your Audio Test Equip."  author ditto, which included oscilloscopes.
"..to Use your Oscilloscope." do
"  to Use your Sweep Generator." do
"..to Use your Signal Generator." do

They are fairly comprehensive, including phase distortion, harmonic distortion, component analysis, power supply regulation, impedance of speakers, square wave response of AM equipment, filters, "you name it," etc.

Written in clear language with simple hook-up diagrams, procedures to follow, ranges to set instruments and a whole host of hints, explanations and results expected.

If your wondering of what era and circuits these books describe, then "checking rumble, wow, and flutter," ought to give you a decent hint.
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RICK  *W3RSW*
KG0MN
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« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2013, 02:38:15 PM »

Thank you very much Mr. Wilson I will see if I can find this series of books online and that will provide me some good reading for the coming winter evening.  I saw you page on QRZ.com and can not help but admire to amplifiers you have built.  If you would not mind me asking for the Green Hornet amp what is the out of it and how much do you think it would cost to build on in this day and age if you had to buy all the parts and they were available?

Thanks,
Kevin _ KG0MN
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W3RSW
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Rick & "Roosevelt"


« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2013, 03:21:37 PM »

Thanks for your remarks.
"Rick" here, no need for the "Mr. Wilson." Grin

The amp you mention uses a pair of Eimac 8875's no longer obtainable new.  They were designed in the FCC mandated One Kilowatt input days so with care could reliably deliver 500 to 600 watts CW somewhat continuously and 1000 to 1300 watts PEP SSB intermittently depending on plate voltage and linear amplifier efficiency.  These tubes have very low grid dissipation so that has to be watched like a hawk along with suitable overcurrent shutdowns.

With 1600 volts on loaded plates I get about 1.1 kw pep.
 
If I were to duplicate it today, I'd use a single 3cx800a7 and expect 750 to 1200 watts intermittent SSB out.  You would need a blower instead of a fan.

Price? Well, after installing the GM3SEK triode control board, vacuum QSK, etc., (not shown in pix) I'm not sure it would be cost effective to build one like it today.  I also, back in '82, used combination roller and fixed pi-net output inductors, not practical in a new Pi-L design unless you would want to build expensively.  The band switch should be beefed up too.

 A lot of design and thought went into ganging the pi-net input circuits with the output band switch.
These days one would probably go with circuit-board mounted DC switched relays for input pi-net circuits, each band. 

Without a well stocked junk box and a lot of scrounging of quality parts from ham fests over the years, you might want to find an older amp and fix it up, put in new electrolytics, tubes, etc.   There's a ton of stuff on the web about retro fitting older amps to new specs. 

A lot of thought and metal work goes into a cabinet if you don't buy one commercially finished.  You still have to provide tube sub chassis, interior dividers and shielding.  You have to decide on which panels to have captive nuts so that they can be removed for servicing and easy modifications. Captive nuts behind the fan and back panel for example so I can get to the T/R relay and inside the input /tube socket sub chassis.

My cabinet was built from a scrap state road sign and 1/2 inch angle aluminum stock.  The aluminum sheet was cut on a commercial knife. The square counter holes on the front panel were done with
a milling machine at work, etc.  All this takes time and resources that you
need to count on.

Costs of all parts would probably approach $2k. Here's probably the closest commercial equivalent built with cheaper (non-mil. surplus) parts but with integrated power supply. http://www.ameritron.com/Product.php?productid=AL-800

Build up your own front panel, different paint scheme and with custom printed meter panels , save the old ones, find some military knobs like mine and few would know the difference.  Grin
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RICK  *W3RSW*
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« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2013, 03:52:57 PM »

K,

There are several  plethoras of information at the following. And they is free.


 http://www.tubebooks.org/technical_books_online.htm


klc
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Pete, WA2CWA
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« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2013, 05:06:10 PM »

Heathkit's book EF-2 - UNDERSTANDING & USING YOUR OSCILLOSCOPE
and
Sylvania's book - SERVICE RADIOS WITH SCOPE

Both are great for learning how to service equipment with a scope.
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Pete, WA2CWA - "A Cluttered Desk is a Sign of Genius"
KG0MN
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« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2013, 05:10:49 PM »

Mr. Cleary,

Thank you for the outstanding listing of reading material it will indeed be helpful in my understanding of how tube gear works and hopefully give me the knowledge to work on it to some degree.  I did find the books the Rick mentioned on Amazon and was able to get four of the five for about $20.00 since they were all used books.  Thanks again for the valuable information.


Kevin

As I was typing this Mr. Markavage gave me two other publications to consider.  I thank him for that as well.
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WQ9E
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« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2013, 07:06:46 PM »

If you can find one of the older copies of the Tektronix publication, "The XYZs of Oscilloscopes" you will find it useful.  This publication has been continuously updated by Tektronix and the newer ones will not be of as much interest to you.

Tektronix also does a good treatment of the use of probes in the earlier manuals for their 500 series tube type scopes and the manuals for the vertical plug-ins (1 and letter series).

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Rodger WQ9E
KG0MN
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« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2013, 07:44:07 PM »

Mr. Singley I was able to find a copy of "XYZs of Oscilloscopes" and I will include a copy of the link in case someone else may want one.  It does look to cover a large amount of information that is not directed entirely towards Tektronix scopes.

http://tinyurl.com/XYZs-of-Oscilloscopes
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WBear2GCR
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Brrrr- it's cold in the shack! Fire up the BIG RIG


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« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2013, 10:40:31 PM »


You might want to chase down a version that is about 30-40 years old, since that will be oriented more to the technology you are interested in working with, and also won't have the fancy tricks of the current day scopes.

                     _-_-
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_-_- bear WB2GCR                   http://www.bearlabs.com
KG0MN
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« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2013, 11:37:41 AM »

Good point on getting an earlier copy.
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