HOW TO GET OUT ON 160

[W2PFY]

I never seem to hear or work anyone more than about 350 miles on 160.  My antenna is a full size dipole cut for 1.885. It's up about 80 feet. What do I need to do? I can run about 350 watts on the band.  I am located in northern NY near Lake Placid.

any ideas gents?

[KB2WIG]

Try an eL?? and lay some radials. My plan for this year is the eL and a few above ground radials.  I'll try to lay out a beverage in the spring if/when I find who/whos I can work this year. The Bi-Directional  beverage sounds interesting.


klc

[KL7OF]

What direction is your Dipole oriented?  Some condx are better than others on 160...Especially when you are operating AM..Monitoring condx goes a long way in determining what you can hear....If you have the means for a low noise beverage type rx antenna (or  two) I highly recommend it...A low loop around the property or even a shielded loop that you can rotate will help with the low angle signals...and cut noise..The dipole will work for xmit but it is my experience that you need to be able to hear the lower angle signals better than you can on the dipole  before you can work them..Also remember that you need to get as much forward gain as possible from the wall socket...You are not the first station I have heard talk of the 160 meter WALL at 350 miles....Good Luck and I hope to work you sometime....Steve

[W8ACR]

Hi Terry,

I'm not a 160 DX expert, but if you want to work long haul on 160, the conventional wisdom says to use a vertical transmitting antenna and a separate receive antenna such as a beverage. An inverted L with 40-50 feet of vertical radiator should be adequate, and of course as many 1/4 wave radials as you can manage. Dipoles are not good for DX unless you can elevate them to 1/2 wavelength above ground which is usually impractical on 160.  Low Band DX'ing by ON4UN is a good reference book to give you some ideas for DX success on 160.

Ron

[W2VW]

The Prime Minister used to get out.

[KL7OF]

Hi Terry,

I'm not a 160 DX expert, but if you want to work long haul on 160, the conventional wisdom says to use a vertical transmitting antenna and a separate receive antenna such as a beverage. An inverted L with 40-50 feet of vertical radiator should be adequate, and of course as many 1/4 wave radials as you can manage. Dipoles are not good for DX unless you can elevate them to 1/2 wavelength above ground which is usually impractical on 160.  Low Band DX'ing by ON4UN is a good reference book to give you some ideas for DX success on 160.

Ron

+1 on the vertical tx antenna

[Steve - K4HX]

I agree on the vertical or L as better options for longer distant contacts on 160. That said, I've made many AM contacts in the 400-500 mile range (northern New England, 600 mi to Maine), several in the 1000 mile range (midwest) and one (KD0HG in CO) in the 1500 mile range using a dipole at 70 feet.

The best distance on slop bucket was Russia, in the 5000 mile range.

[sndtubes]

In the Midwest,  European signals are very weak.   I don't imagine you will work much DX on AM or SSB.   CW is the best weak signal DX mode.   I did well with an inverted L with lots of long radials and a K9AY receiving loop.  Since you are in NY,  I would think you would hear Europe better than I.   Also,  be aware that signals fade and build very slowly on 160

[K4RT]

I never seem to hear or work anyone more than about 350 miles on 160.  My antenna is a full size dipole cut for 1.885. It's up about 80 feet. What do I need to do? I can run about 350 watts on the band.  I am located in northern NY near Lake Placid.

any ideas gents?

It might help to know the vertical height vs. take-off angle figures for your antenna so you can determine the best elevation. Check ON4UN's book, the ARRL Handbook, or maybe a web site devoted to the subject.

As was suggested in another response to your post, propagation is also an issue for other than NVIS contacts. I recall that ON4UN wrote in his book that there is still a lot to learn about 160 propagation. I believe he said that much of what we know has been contributed by the AM broadcast industry and ham operators.

I have only used an inverted-L for 160 meters. Prior to our move, I used an inverted-L for 160 with 16 radials and was able from Virginia to work into Europe, Central and South America on CW and as far west as the Pacific NW, also on CW. I seemed to hit a wall just beyond the Rockies - perhaps because of the limitations of my installation, which I won't go into here. I used it less on SSB but was able to work up and down the East coast well on SSB. The antenna is back up at the new place (also Virginia), but I have only 4 radials down and will be adding more when I can, maybe next year.

Good luck with your dipole and hope to work you on 160 AM!

73, Brad

[W2PFY]

What direction is your Dipole oriented?

The north end is at 355 degrees on the old compass so I am broadside to most of the US.

The Prime Minister used to get out.

I miss talking to him. The last QSL I had with him was about a year ago and it sounded like he gave it all up and moved into the woods.

Thanks for all the tips guys! I looked at some YouTube vid's and saw basically two types of antennas. They were fed with coax or open wire line. The ones with open wire raise questions with me? The examples shown had one side of the open wire line going to the radials and the other to the vertical part of the antenna. They say this makes a good all band antenna? What do you fellows think about this approach?

I have not researched ON4UN antenna designs as yet. Lots to read there for sure.

[flintstone mop]

At 80 feet height your dipole is making the clouds warm. Dipoles get directional at  1/2 wavelength height above ground.
When we were in Maryland the 8 landers sounded pretty far and the East Coast was very strong signals
The present QTH in Western Pa. the 8 landers are booming in and the East coast is a little lower sig level, but not that bad. I have almost same situation here with a dipole 65 feet high and full length. Open Ladder line and a nice Dentron tuner...I built the K1JJ tuner and they give the same performance.
Bad nights and 100 watt TX is not goodness. 160 seems to be good early eve. After 9 the signals drop a little. Around midnight they pick up again.
When 160 is great I have heard 30 watt TX's get into my radio very nicely. Some folks live in areas where ground conductivity is very good.
We are about 1100 feet above sea level at this QTH.
Fred

[W2PFY]

We are about 1100 feet above sea level at this QTH.
Fred

So where are you?  I have quite a few relatives out near Pittsburgh and all are non hams.

Maybe a visit some year?

[K1JJ]

Over the years I've tried a lot of different antennas for 160M.

Probably the best system was a 3 element vertical array. It used a shunt fed, grounded 110' tower as the driven element and a parasitic director and reflector with  base coils tuned against ground for best f-b. I installed about 90  1/2 wave radials per element and they were all connected into a matrix.  What a system into Europe and west coast!  

I tired of CW and DXing on 160M ( a lonely game) and replaced it with a 1/2 wave dipole at 190' high. (equivalent to 95' high on 75M)  This works FB for AM locally as well as for moderate 1000 mile distances. This antenna is still in use and I am happy with it for the type of coverage I want on 160M... locals.

As for extreme heights - W8JI once put up a 160M dipole at 300', equivalent to 150' on 75M.  He claims it didn't work all that well for DX compared to his vertical system.

It seems vertical polarization is best for the least attenuation on 160M. Above 3Mhz, then high horizontals appear to get the edge.

If I didn't have the height available, I would put up a horizontal dipole as high as possible for local work out to 200-300 miles or so.  Then add a vertically polarized  inverted L with radials.  Use a base coil if needed.  These two antennas will cover most angles and give us a choice of vertical angles.

Another alternative is to tie the feedline together of any dipole and feed it against a radial system. This is like a top loaded vertical or vertical "T".  


BTW, if one has a single tall tower, a switchable 160M 4-square vertical system can be constructed by pulling four vertical dipoles out at 45 degree angles from the tower. The coax-fed centers are fed with a standard phasing box like the K8UR, etc.   This system is a compromise compared to a standard square of four verticals with radials, but is still right up there with the best for 160M.

T

[flintstone mop]

Hi 2PFY, we are in New Castle Pa. 50mi North of Pittsburgh. If you are in the area; send a msg in PM or my Hotmail address.
When we were in Maryland, there was always rough copy from Ham ops in/near Pittsburgh. Don't know if the Allegheny Mountains block radio signals. It was always difficult to receive KDKA AM in Maryland. Getting away from the mountains and talking to Hams in Youngstown Ohio was pretty easy.
And Tom that was a very good eye-opener. A dipole at 1/2 wavelength is not a guarantee of super performance either. WOW!
Looks like the "L" is great antenna for 160-80M..Best of both worlds with vert polarization and horizontal.
65 feet vert and the rest is the loading wire OR a total length of wire of 120 feet? Tuner at the base? A vacuum relay to switch in different tuner for 160 and 80?
Then the next question for a true vertical antenna would be,,,,how tall? The magical 1/8 wave vertical or 1/4 wave? The 43 footer is not the miracle antenna BTW.
Fred