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Author Topic: Ok lets see if I understand this....Modulation transformer for my transmitter.  (Read 2362 times)
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NR5P
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« on: July 16, 2013, 05:36:04 PM »

Ok...So I have plenty of 15E tubes and 1625's, and I'd like to use these to build a transmitter because it's what has fallen into my lap and I figure I should try to use what I have.  I've got supply for 1500v and 750v.  At 1500V 2x15E should be about 150 watts http://www.nj7p.org/cgi-bin/tube?tube=15e .   And the 4x1625 in ab1 will do around 140W.   I could run 1625's in the rf section but I guess I want to be difficult and use the 15E's.  I'm thinking 2x15E's at 1500V class c parallel modulated by 4x1625's AB1 push pull parallel. I gathered some info from this forum and been doing some reading to try to understand this better http://amfone.net/Amforum/index.php?topic=27244.msg207633;topicseen#msg207633

So I want to be able to modulate the rf tubes to 100% so I take the plate voltage 1500*1.1=1650V So if I had a voice that was asymmetrical my peak would be 3150V and -150 for the negative peak BUT of course that is impossible, it would be over modulated. 

 The 1625 tubes will only go to 150v at 0 bias due to physics correct?  So 750-150=600 then 750+600=1350v 1350-150=1200  (1200v) peak across audio tubes on the modulator side.  So the peak for the rf deck 1650/1200=1.37:1 for voltage ratio which is also turns ratio.  15E in class c at 1500v operating conditions is 67ma.  So impedance is 1500/(2*67ma)=11,194ohms, works out to be around 6000 to the 1625 tubes which is the "perfect" load for the 4x1625's right?  according to this artical they say impedance is 6k http://www.arizona-am.net/PHOENIX/NA7RH/ARRL%201625%20Mod.pdf

I could have also takin 11,194/6000 then took the square root of that and ended up with a very similar turns ratio.

Now I could go to a higher impedance on the tubes and would gain less distortion, but would loose efficiency with tube power output.  However I should have enough head room that I could go a little outside but I don't know how far?  Would 1.2:1 provide to much impedance on the modulator?  I'm not even sure what common modulation transformers I can find(haven't looked yet)

Now here is another question I have for myself.  I have 2x20H chokes that I was planning on using at least one for a modified heising modulation settup.  Problem is from why I understand the rf amp impedance plays the role in what size inductor is required.  Makes since to me because the lower the impedance of the rf amp the less the rf "sees" the inductors impedance.  So for 11kohm for the 15e that is way to much.  However if I went with my original plan and used 4x1625 tubes in the rf amp I could use just one choke and it would work fine correct?  Because the formula I saw was 10H for every 1K of impedance.  I really wanted to use this set up.  I guess it depends on what mod transformer I get rather it is worth even doing this. Maybe at the power levels I'm talking about doing it is pointless?  Would it make finding a suitable transformer much easier to just use 4x1625's modulated by 4x1625's? 

Thanks for your help.  I hope I've got at least some kind of idea what's going on here. 

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K1JJ
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« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2013, 07:04:00 PM »

So I want to be able to modulate the rf tubes to 100% so I take the plate voltage 1500*1.1=1650V So if I had a voice that was asymmetrical my peak would be 3150V and -150 for the negative peak BUT of course that is impossible, it would be over modulated.  


Using a negative peak limiter you can limit your negative peaks and achieve any positive peak level you desire.

I use a low level NPL, which consists of a simple single diode that goes into an 8 pole low pass 6.7 KHz filter. Look for the WA1QIX PDM modulator circuit on this site (or his site) and duplicate just this portion.

Works FB. I feel it is important to have a LP filter after any NPL to filter the higher order audio crud generated by the diode clipping.  Most high level NPL circuits do not do this.  Even the Flex and riceboxes, using their balanced modulators and when modulated heavily, create a form of crud as heard on a standard diode detector. (little wavelets)  Using a sync detector, they sound FB, however.  

For a ricebox, I'll bet an NPL/ LP filter before the balanced modulator would solve this problem. IE, if the voice audio is phased correctly, the double sideband wavelets (neg peaks) wud never occur since they are limited beforehand.  I've not tried it yet.

T
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Use an "AM Courtesy Filter" to limit transmit audio bandwidth  +-4.5 KHz, +-6.0 KHz or +-8.0 KHz when needed.  Easily done in DSP.

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« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2013, 11:57:44 PM »

If it's serious, I would give up a 15R or two for a neg limiter.. keep things looking fine!
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