IC-7000, FT-857 or ?? for AM mobile?

[N7CXI]

My fear of drilling on my 2011 F350 diesel is wearing off, and I'm considering get set up for mobile operation.
I already have a flat-black Scorpion SA-680 I bought for stealthy use at a previous QTH, so have the antenna.
I tow a large 5th wheel toy-hauler, so I'll defer the arguments about antenna placement to another day and thread. ;-)

My question to the panel is: Which of the newest DC-Daylight micro-rigs runs well on AM? I haven't dug into the specs yet so that may become obvious over time, but I'd like some opinions as well. Obvious candidates are the IC-7000 and the FT-857 . Any others I should consider?

Thanks,
Jim N7CXI

[w1vtp]

Do NOT!  I repeat do NOT get a FT857D for AM service.  It really sucks both in receive and transmit.  I'm not the only one who experienced this problem.  Janis, AB2RA a very competent radio op got so frustrated with her's she got rid of it.

I may do the same if I can find one that will work well on AM and SSB.  I'm not at all impressed.  The ALC has NOTHING to do with this problem using AM.

Al

[N7CXI]

Thanks, Al.
Time to take a look at the specs on the IC-7000, then.

I have a like-new FT-847 that sounds "ok" on AM, but is quite a bit larger than the latest rigs.
It would be nice to find something that would do 25 watts carrier and actually modulate to 100. I've gotten spoiled with my Flex 5000A, I suppose.
I (briefly) thought about what it would take to put the 5000A in the 5th wheel, but it's more than I want to deal with.

73
Jim N7CXI

[w1vtp]

Jim

To be more specific - the receiver is broad as a barn door making evening listening a real nightmare.  The transmit problem is a maximum of ≈ 50% modulation with the AM mic gain set to 100 (the maximum setting).  The carrier spikes to maximum power of 100 watts and then settles down to 25 watts. Any thoughts of using this with a sensitive input circuit should keep this in mind - in the case of using a linear in mobile service.  This could be a serious problem with mobile service.

I am now looking at trading in the FT-857D towards the IC-7000.  Thanks for the tip perhaps we both should take input from others on this forum but I am currently fed up with mine.

Al

PS:  Here's the QST rview of the IC-7000.  Note that the RX AF is real tight.  It may  be that the search is still on for me.  Perhaps thee is an AM filter (??)

[N7CXI]

Thanks for the IC-7000 review file, Al. Strange - the reviewer describes lackluster RX performance numbers, then goes on to say it could be his "one only" radio, then goes on to say the TX audio was poor in many reports and that there was an 8khz tone in the RX audio. Sounds like he was a smidgen ambivalent. As fussy as I am about audio there's no way I'd put up with even the half of that... I also looked at the INRAD site and they don't sell any filters at all for that rig.

Well, shoot. I was hoping for an easy fix. It would have been nice to find a rig I could use from the cab, but maybe what I'll do is just stuff the FT-847 and a speaker in the 5th wheel, then run coax and drive motor cables from the antenna mount on the truck over to the trailer. The FT-847 is no star performer on HF either, but at least it's an enemy I know.

Thanks for the replies, Al. I appreciate it.

73
Jim N7CXI

[Pete, WA2CWA]

I've had an IC-7000 for the last 5 years. Replaced a IC-706MK IIG. Seems to work great on all bands and modes. Have run it mobile and in the shack barefoot and driving a SB-200.  AM audio reports were fine.

You don't need to buy filters for the IC-7000.

From the brochure:
Digital IF filters
All the filters you want at your fingertips!
You will never have to purchase “Optional”
filters as the IC-7000 has adjustable digital
filters. You just dial in the width you want
and select whether you want a sharp or soft
filter shape for SSB and CW modes. Then
to pull-in the the weak ones, with a quick
turn of the concentric twin PBT knobs, you
can either narrow the IF passband, or shift
the entire passband to eliminate the QRM.

Mode Passband width range
SSB
50–500Hz; 50Hz step
600Hz–3.6kHz; 100Hz step
CW
50–500Hz; 50Hz step
600Hz–3.6kHz; 100Hz step
RTTY
50–500Hz; 50Hz step
600Hz–2.7kHz; 100Hz step
AM 200Hz–10kHz; 200Hz step
FM 7/10/15kHz; fixed step
WFM 280kHz; fixed
The entire brochure is here: http://www.icomamerica.com/en/downloads/DownloadDocument.aspx?Document=165

[N7CXI]

Thanks, Pete.

Between a skim of the QST review and the brochure I couldn't come up with what kind of front-end scheme the rig uses, (up-conversion with roofing, down-conversion etc) and whether the AGC is derived inside or outside of the DSP IF.

Both may sound like picky things, but in a somewhat perverse way my day job as a DSP engineer actually biases me more toward rigs with analog IF's than DSP, with the notable exceptions being direct-sampling receivers. (which are just starting to show up in amateur circles) The fact that I own and use a Flex 5000A makes that even more confusing. I love and hate that rig in so many conflicting ways... I also own and occasionally use an Omni VII, which is more of a hybrid and has the most annoying AGC action.

But I digress as usual. Thanks for the info. I didn't know the IC-7000 had an all-DSP IF. I'll give one a try if I can find one in the wild.

73,
Jim N7CXI

[Pete, WA2CWA]

Here's more in depth info on the IC-7000. http://www.ab4oj.com/icom/ic7000/main.html  Scroll down below the ICOM IC-7000 preliminary information. There are a number of links that you can click on.

There are a number of us here who also run various Flex rigs. The members here have a wide variety of rig interests.

[N7CXI]

Interesting, thanks.

One of the user reviews mentions the AGC loop is derived in the DSP IF, which answers one of my questions. Inside is good, no pumping on signals outside the passband. Now I wonder if the AGC parameters can be tweaked from a menu. (I'd be a lot more enthusiastic about my Omni VII if the AGC threshold and hang time were adjustable in increments. "Slow" isn't very slow, but then Tentec has a CW ops heritage)

Anyway - thanks for the info, Pete. I'll continue to poke around for info on the IC-7000. Maybe I'll get lucky and find one to play with before Field Day. I'm itching to take the trailer out, and FD is as good an excuse as any.

73,
Jim N7CXI

[W3GMS]

Jim,
I have several friends who use an IC-7000.  On SSB all of the ones I have heard have a slight ringing to the audio.  It almost sounds like a monitor speaker is on in the background.  Messing around with the TX BW controls will allow one to minimize it, but it never completely goes away.  I have never worked an IC-7000 on AM so can't speak about that.  Saying that, the owners of them seem to be real happy with the rig.  It goes without saying that the rig is very menu intensive.  A few people I know got rid of them since they did not like that aspect of the radio.  Again that is a personal thing and some people don't mind menu intensive rigs. 

Al,
I am curious as to why the 857D performs so poorly on AM.  There must be a good technical explanation for it.  I'm surprised someone has not dug into it more deeply and determine why that is. 

73,
Joe, W3GMS   

[ke7trp]

The 857 works great on AM.  It just has to be setup right.  Two friends have them, One base and one mobile. I listen to one frequently and it certainly sounds great on AM.  Sorry  Al, Clearly, yours has a problem.

I did listen to an IC7000 for about 6 months on a daily basis in the AM mode on 40 meters.  It was lackluster.  The owner purchased the modified microphone from ab5n

http://www.7000mic.com/

Then the radio sounded great on am and on SSB.  If you get a 7000, This is highly recomended.

The other radio that may or may not fit the bill is the FT450 or FT450D.  That radio sounds fantastic on AM.  No ALC troubles here and you can align the radio from the front panel controls for any ALC settings you want.. You can also run the power up to 150 out just by going into the alignment menu. There are 200 watts worth of final transistor here so no trouble in doing that.

C

[N7CXI]

Thanks, gents.

It looks like I'm going to just have to track these rigs down in the wild and see if I can operate a bit with them.
Being something of a hermit that may take a little doing, but it doesn't have to happen overnight.

73,
Jim N7CXI

[Steve W8TOW]

I too tried an FT-857 (with the DSP) on AM mobile...
This was one of my most disappointing experiences....the filters
worked great to remove noise...and any or all fidelity of
any received signal...AM CW or SSB!


The 40 watts was useless....It really is about 20 watts of very
poor quality audio....A stock Ranger sounds better IMHO...

For the "FUN FACTOR"...get a  Johnson Mobile (saw them at Dayton
for less than $100), or perhaps a AF-67 or 68, Morrow Twins, or
even a Heathkit Twinset and put it in the car with extra
batteries...
you will have more fun and less invested!
Next time I go mobile, that will be my plan!
73
Steve
w8tow

OH, getting out of my truck one day with the FT-857 ON, I reached
to turn off the radio from outside the truck. A bit of static discharged
on the radio...I blew the main microprocessor...Back to Yaesu...
and $300 later, I got it back...and then sold it...
gee....it was just a little 'zap'...but that rig isn't for the
HV types...I guess