The AM Forum
May 09, 2024, 11:58:08 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   Home   Help Calendar Links Staff List Gallery Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: 75A3 Filter adapter boards  (Read 8097 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
W4NEQ
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 188



WWW
« on: March 25, 2012, 09:20:49 PM »

I have been spectacularly unsuccessful finding an AM width mechanical filter for my 75A3 in the standard rectangular plug-in package.  Must not have been many made - I suppose the close following of the A4 obsoleted the filter case style.

So, I'm thinking of using a Curry 6 KHz unit with 9 pin base.  The pic shows my generic adapter board made on my mill.  The fallback is to use an Inrad 8 pole xtal unit.These are the first PC boards I've made this way - used a 82 degree vee cutter going to a depth of 0.013 and it seemed to work well.  The screws hold them down for the final perimeter cut.  Works pretty well for large stuff.

I might try cascading a bunch of resonated Toko 500 uH cans with about 15 pf coupling caps in between, then stagger tuning the whole IF strip.

Chris
 


* 75A3_adapt.jpg (260.41 KB, 1200x726 - viewed 453 times.)
Logged
WA1GFZ
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 11151



« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2012, 09:34:09 PM »

The 16 khz filter in Racal RA6790/ RA6830 was an LC filter. It should work well in the 75a3. Actually any of the 455 KHz filters mechanical or crystal used in the Racal or Harris receivers should work well. You might consider milling provision for a series resistor or inductor with room for caps to ground to tune out and pass band ripple. Make sure DC does not get into any mechanical or crystal filters to prevent failures. I once hat a 75A3 with a 6 kHz filter. the pass band ripple was really bad.
Rob Sherwood also sells some really nice filters.
Logged
K5UJ
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2814



WWW
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2012, 06:47:26 AM »

If the A3 you have is a low serial number (below around 1000 I think but I have to check to make sure) you need the B type mech bathtub filter; if it is over that number you need C type.  Collins changed the capacitance in the interstage location there from 330 pF (B type) to 130 pF (C type).  I went through the same search for my A3--a proper B type filter for 6 kc or wider is practically unobtainium, or if one surfaces for sale it is usually a small fortune.

ER has had some articles in the past about filters for the A3 (which I found out after I worked something up  Sad  )
See ER # 64 "Putting the 75A-3 on AM"

I wound up buying Murata ceramic filters from Mouser--they are around $3 or $4 each.  They have one that is listed as 2.5 kc.  But for some reason, Murata does not give passband width--that's an audio spec so it is really a 5 kc filter.  The skirts are not very steep so for all practical purposes it is 6 or 7 kc.  They have wider filters of course.  I have found the 5 kc filter to be about perfect for ham AM.  on the bottom of the filter there are three pins for ground and two for in and out.  Filter is symmetrical so which are in and out doesn't matter.  It needs a blocking cap, something around 500 pF 600 v, and load resistors.  I have uploaded a photo.  I don't remember the R values but you can see the colors on two in the foreground for a circuit that is just an interstage coupler (making the rx too wide so I eventually put a ceramic filter in that one too).  Ignore please the ridiculous use of four disk ceramic caps--that was all I had on hand to cobble together to get a few hundred pF for B+ blocking  Smiley  

The hardest thing about the filter was getting a perf board and putting pins on it to seat into the filter socket so they mate up right and are the right gauge for the holes.   I found stiff wire that matched, cut and drilled the holes on the perf board and used epoxy to hold the pins in the board.  The cost of all the parts and materials was probably $20 though, maybe less, way better than a $200 mech filter and for AM, I like the ceramic filter better actually because strong signals come in past the skirts somewhat for a higher fidelity sound but weak signals that are harder to copy are only on the top of the filter response.  If you have the stock 3.1 kc mech filter hang on to it because it is very good during battle condx on 75 meters.
With the right filter, prod. dectector mod and pulling the audio out from the AF gain pot wiper to an external p.p. tube audio amp you wind up with a pretty good AM rx.


Very important:  the slots in the A3 are not wired exactly as shown on the schematic.  With the mech filter it doesn't matter but for other filters it does.  looking in when facing the front panel, the signal path is between the outer two sockets front to back; common is the inner two pairs front to back with the grounds at the two wider pin sockets centered on each slot.

I will try to find a URL for the Murata filters I picked from.

here it is:

http://www.mouser.com/Passive-Components/Signal-Conditioning/_/N-8bzuiZscv7?P=1z0wkx5Z1z0z5ndZ1z0z7l5Z1z0z5h6Z1z1414h&Keyword=murata+filter&FS=True

Unfortunately Mouser doesn't put the 6 dB width right up front on their parts listings  Huh  so you have to click on each one and navigate to a spec. page to find that.  You have to click on the data sheet link.  The spec for passband will say somthing like:  6dB Bandwidth fn±4.5kHz min.  the +- is the giveaway that in this case it is a 9 kc IF filter.  It might be better to look at the Murata filter list, get the part no. and go back to Mouser:

http://search.murata.co.jp/Ceramy/PnsearchViewAction.do


* hb75a3ceramicfilter8kc1.JPG (207.8 KB, 640x480 - viewed 453 times.)
Logged

"Not taking crap or giving it is a pretty good lifestyle."--Frank
W4NEQ
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 188



WWW
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2012, 10:17:48 AM »

Thank you folks for the very helpful replies.

Chris

Logged
KM1H
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3514



« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2012, 12:38:22 PM »

Anybody know anything about the A. Dietrich aftermarket filter? It and the Collins 3.1 are in my Serial 950 75A3

Carl
Logged
W4NEQ
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 188



WWW
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2012, 02:58:17 PM »

Does anybody know how what the Curry 75A4  6 KHz filters are supposed to measure in terms of DC resistance?

I show input:  5 ohms, and output 2400 ohms.

My stock Collins shows 40 ohms in and out.

When I test the Curry filter, I can't seem to find any form of  resonance with in or out C varied between 20 and 200 pf, just a few minor bumps in an otherwise flat very wide passband, and about 10 dB loss.  Tweaking the IF can in the top doesn't change much.   My test jig is set up for about a 4K feed and a  30K load on the output.

I don't have any experience with Mechanical filters.
Logged
W4NEQ
Contributing
Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 188



WWW
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2012, 05:49:13 PM »

Making some progress.  Somehow the filter enclosure wasn't being grounded, and that made a big difference - and I changed the input and output impedance to about 4K.

Looks like a pretty tight AM "battle conditions" filter, at least on the jig. I notice the adjustment of the C seems to impact ripple the most.  Test setup is 1:3 transformer, 3300 ohm series R > filter < 3300 ohm series R, 3:1 transformer.  Level was normalized by replacing the filter with a .01 cap.

Now to install it into the receiver and figure out how to sweep it.

Chris



* 6khz_curry_sm.jpg (69.16 KB, 800x564 - viewed 420 times.)

* filter_jig.jpg (146.63 KB, 800x754 - viewed 428 times.)
Logged
Todd, KA1KAQ
Administrator
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 4244


AMbassador


« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2012, 07:17:22 PM »

Didn't realize the 6KHz filters were that scarce? The original 75A-4 version isn't easy to find either.

Mine has a foil label on it instead of the usual painted case, figured it must be a newer example. Got it along with several others when I bought a 75A-2A back in the 90s at the former Milton VT hamfest. As well as the two filters installed, there were several others tucked inside the receiver. WX1O was right behind me in line waiting to snarfle it up if I walked away. The receiver now resides in the vortex with the stock 3.1 filter.

Took a couple photos to confirm its existence. You can see the 60 in the top right corner. The foil label is hard to photograph, but the box includes the pertinent numbers. I find 6KHz to be about as narrow as I can listen to for any length of time. 8-10 would be better. They do help out under noisy conditions, though.

Good luck with your project.


* 6KHzFilter.JPG (362.99 KB, 960x720 - viewed 418 times.)

* FilterBoxes.JPG (432.03 KB, 960x720 - viewed 435 times.)
Logged

known as The Voice of Vermont in a previous life
John K5PRO
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1026



« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2012, 01:46:43 AM »

Some RA6790s at work have Collins Mech filters in them - blue plastic encased filters. I looked at the manual and Racal doesn't mention LC filter. It says (table 2-1) that the 16 KHz filter is crystal, Racal number 08415. It does offer mechanical or crystal filters for the lower bandwidth (through 6 KHz) applications. I wonder if others have LC filter?

"The 16 khz filter in Racal RA6790/ RA6830 was an LC filter. It should work well in the 75a3."

 
Logged
WA1GFZ
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 11151



« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2012, 11:55:24 AM »

I have a pile of the Racal Collins blue mechanical filters in a few receivers. They work fine. My Hot Rod RA6830 has 3 filter boards in it using the blue filters. 2 ahead of the IF and one between the IF and detector modules stuffed in the A8 baseband converter slot.  I read the 16khz filter is actually LC but never took one apart. All mine work fine so not motivated to check.
Racal also used a Collins flat metal sealed can 15kHz filter in some boards to generate a wideband AUX IF output for the RA6830.
Logged
WBear2GCR
Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 4132


Brrrr- it's cold in the shack! Fire up the BIG RIG


WWW
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2012, 08:37:28 PM »

there is at least one on ebay now... I saw it I think last night in a haze...

                          _-_-bear
Logged

_-_- bear WB2GCR                   http://www.bearlabs.com
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

AMfone - Dedicated to Amplitude Modulation on the Amateur Radio Bands
 AMfone © 2001-2015
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Page created in 0.068 seconds with 19 queries.